For the shooters. Lets save a buck on our ammo

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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So with ammo prices going haywire these days its getting a bit pricey to make brass. One way to cut down on the costs and ensure a superior product is to reload your own ammo.

But what an involved process you say! Not so says I! Lets say we use Black Hills 75 gr ammo in .223. A box of 50 will set you back roughly $30 bucks as seen here

That works out to a whopping 60 cents every time you pull the trigger. Lets see if we cant cut that down a tad shall we? To the bat cave! :)

Today we're going to work up a Black Hills 75 grain match load. While I personally am still testing this load we'll still use it as our base line. I should note, I'm a shooter not a photographer so dont ride me too hard about the pictures. They are what they are. It goes "click" but doesnt throw lead so i aint that good with it. ;)

First off, the tools of the trade.
Click

This picture shows some (but not all) of the tools you will need. In the back you have the tumbler, then some calipers, lube pad, scale, dies and various other tools.

The first step is to tumble our brass. I usually toss it in the tumbler as soon as I get home from the range. This is like a bath for our brass, cleaning off the powder residue and any sand or dirt that has gotten on the cases from the range. An hour or so is usually all it takes, sometimes less.
Brass bath

Once we've tumbled our brass its time to deprime and resize it. Every time you shoot the brass expands to fill the chamber it was shot from. For safe and proper operation of our reloads in our chamber it needs to be sized back down in order to smoothly fit the next time we chamber the round. Here are a few pieces of brass sitting on the lube pad with the bottle of lube behind it. Lightly roll the cases across the pad and voila, there lubed. The resizing dies literally push the brass back into shape and if you dont lube the brass they could potentially (And IME most likely will!) get stuck in the resizer. This is a pain in the ass.
Greasing them up!

Once we have them lubed (And theres different types and brands, this is but one example) we need to actually resize the brass. The resizing die comes with instruction on how to mount it in the press, with experience you can tweak that a bit for longer brass life or loads custom fit to your chamber. For now, we raise the ram, tighten the die down till it touches, lower the ram, screw the die down another 1/4 to 1/3 turn and tighten the locking ring. Here we see a piece of brass in the shell holder with the ram lowered, ready to go. In my example you can see the spent primers in the primer catch, the black trays either side of the press.
Resizing

A quick shot with the ram 3/4 or so the way up. You need to go all the way.
Resizing part 2

Once our brass is resized and deprimed, its time to trim it. The process of firing and resizing can cause the overall length (OAL) of the brass to become too long to properly chamber and either fail to chamber or create highly dangerous conditions if chambered. Remember, we're dealing with 50,000 PSI of hot gasses a few inches from our nose. While reloading is a safe and fun hobby, you always want to pay attention!
Maximum OAL for .223 is listed as 1.760. Here is the brass right out of the resizer.
Click

1.766. Bad juju to shoot that one. Lets get it in spec.

To do this you need a trimmer. As with lubing theres different types. I use a Possum Hollow trimmer mounted in a hand drill.
Trimmer set up

Here we see the brass as its in the trimmer. You can see the neck of the brass in the little hole, which is also where most of the brass chips fall out. Pretty straight forward. Turn on drill, firmly push brass into the trimmer.
Click

And voila! Nice and trimmed. I shoot for 1.750 although theres always a few thousandths play. Nothing to be alarmed about at all.
Trimmed!

Next step is to chamfer the brass. Trimming it causes rough edges, for proper and smooth bullet seating we want a nice smooth, chamfered case mouth. You can see what I mean by a rough finish in this picture.
Rough]

Our chamfer is a simple handheld device. I used 2 pieces of brass to see how it works. On the left, the outside chamfer, right is inside.
Tool

Gently press the tool onto the brass and give it a few turns.
Much better

I'll take a moment here to note I do not process my primer pockets. This is not mil surp brass so its really not neede, but should you use mil surp with crimper primer pockets that would be an extra step. Also, it doesnt hurt to use a pocket trimmer. But alas, I do not (yet).

Up next we need to finish cleaning our brass. We clean the primer pocket and case mouth. Again you can see the tools as they would be used on the brass.
Cleaning

Heres a close up of the tools. The primer pocket cleaner, firmly press down and give it a few twists. Brush is a simple in and out love.
Tools 2

At this point our brass prep is DONE! Only thing left is primer, powder and bullet and we're shooting! I will take a moment to say, I hate trimming brass. Its hard on your fingers and not a whole lot of fun. There are trimmers that make it much easier and quicker, but good God they are pricey.

Moving on....

Lets do some priming!
I use a hand priming tool. Theres also the option of priming during the resizing and depriming stage, but I do not do that. Also, if using mil brass you may not be able to due to the crimp.
The hand priming tool is pretty simple to use, although I find refilling it with primers to be a bit tricky. The lid snaps in place and it has a habit of causing the primers to jump around and not stay facing up as they should. Here is our priming tool.
Click

We simply snap our brass piece into place and give the handle a firm squeeze. This does take a bit of practice and feel. Sometimes primers will get in sideways or off center. If you continue to force them in you can ruin the primer.
Snapped in

After a firm squeeze we have our primed brass!
Primed

Theres light at the end of the tunnel now!

Next up we need to weigh out some powder. I use (As do many others) Varget for my .223 needs. Its a fantastic and highly recommended powder. Heres some of the tools needed.
Powder tools

Here we have a Pact digital scale with 20 gram calibration weight. As you can see, the scale is properly set and calibrated.
Scale

I use the spoon to quick dump up till around 22-23 grains of powder. After that I use the green powder trickler to slowly add powder up to the desired weight. In this case I use a Redding powder trickler as its a very heavy unit so I dont worry about knocking it over. I do have to set some stuff underneath as the trickler isnt as tall as the scale. Such is life.
Weighing

Once I'm close, I trickle up to 24 grains which is my desired charge for this load.
Perfect!

Here we see a close up of the 24 grains of powder which we will then simply dump into the case
Powder

Last step is the bullet. As we want to replicate Black Hills 75 grain Match I'm using a Hornady 75 grain bullet. Here we see the bullets and a measuring device I will tough on later.
Bullets

You will need to remove the sizing die from the press, add the bullet seater die and you're ready to finish these off and head to the range!
Here we have the brass sitting in the press with the bullet placed on top. You will need to keep the bullet fairly straight or it will not seat properly.
Seating

Give it the ole in and out again and you're finished!
Ready to go!

Now we need to measure the bullet to make sure its where we want it. This is the tool to use. It measures from the ogive of the bullet to the base of the brass. Place it on the jaw of the calipers, set dial to zero and measure.
Measure

Here we have the round in the calipers.
Click

Heres a better reading of the length....
Measure

2.864. Dont forget to subtract the 1 inch for the tool itself for a length of 1.864. While reloading manuals will normally give an OAL length with bullet, bullet lengths from the ogive forward can vary slightly. Measuring from the ogive will give us a repeatable, accurate measurement as opposed to measuring from the tip.

The catch is ogive measurements can be rifle specific since the distance from the rifling to the bullet ogive is slightly different for each rifle so thats something that needs to be done on a per user basis. Using the OAL length with bullet tip is a sure fire way to get out the door though. I've only displayed my measurements to show how the tool works.

And there we have it. We've re-created a Black Hills 75 grain round. And what does this little gem cost us?
Well lets look at the components. We'll go with prices for everything and assume you need to buy brass.

Brass: 1k / $65 - Mil Surp (gibrass.com)
Bullets: 100 / $16 - Hornady 75 gr (midwayusa.com)
Primers: 1k / $25 - CCI 400 small rifle (Cabelas)
Powder: 1 lb / $22 - Varget (Cabelas)

Total cost: $128

I should note I dont account for shipping as I figure its a wash between your time and gas to drive around versus just having it shipped. Also, I *highly* recommend powder and primers locally to avoid hazmat fees.

Using this little calculator we come up with 32 cents per round. HALF what it costs to buy it new. If you assume your brass is free it drops to 26 cents per round!

So there you have it. The ability to shoot better ammo at half the price. And you can tailor the load to YOUR rifle by playing with charge weights, powder brand, primer brand, bullet weight and dimensional measurements to ensure you have the most accurate round you can get for your rifle!


Happy shooting! :)




Disclaimer: I'm not responsible for any typos, missed steps in the process, wrong steps, you screwing up or otherwise blowing up your rifle or face by using this information. Void where prohibited by state or local laws. Must be 18 years of age or older.


 

Agentbolt

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2004
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Coolness. I don't shoot, but I can imagine this'll be handy. I know if you do the load wrong your gun can blow up, so be careful everyone.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Coolness. I don't shoot, but I can imagine this'll be handy. I know if you do the load wrong your gun can blow up, so be careful everyone.

Best advice is have your starting charges 10% off maximum. Make sure your using the data for YOUR powder as it all differs. If your maximum charge weight was 25 grains (Which for this load it is) you would start at 22.5 grains and work up. 24 grains in this case is still well within specs but a touch on the hot side.

Also stick with the recommended measurements from the load manual for OAL and things of that nature.

Reloading can be a very rewarding hobby when you find a load that routinely outshoots anything available off the shelf for half the cost, but its not a hobby to do half assed or when your mind is not "in the game". Screwing up in reloading can get you seriously injured or killed! Pay attention, take your time and have fun. :)
 

apac

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2003
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How long does it typically take to reload, say, 100 rounds? There are quite a few steps in that process, and time is money.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Coolness. I don't shoot, but I can imagine this'll be handy. I know if you do the load wrong your gun can blow up, so be careful everyone.

Best advice is have your starting charges 10% off maximum. Make sure your using the data for YOUR powder as it all differs. If your maximum charge weight was 25 grains (Which for this load it is) you would start at 22.5 grains and work up. 24 grains in this case is still well within specs but a touch on the hot side.

Also stick with the recommended measurements from the load manual for OAL and things of that nature.

Reloading can be a very rewarding hobby when you find a load that routinely outshoots anything available off the shelf for half the cost, but its not a hobby to do half assed or when your mind is not "in the game". Screwing up in reloading can get you seriously injured or killed! Pay attention, take your time and have fun. :)

A friend of mine probably should've read something like this. I forget what he was shooting, maybe a 270? He managed to drive himself to the hospital, but has some nasty scars on his arm to show for it. The deer got away. ;)
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: apac
How long does it typically take to reload, say, 100 rounds? There are quite a few steps in that process, and time is money.

100 rounds?

Hmmm. I figure you could knock that many out in a few hours in the evening. Theres tools to speed up the process of course. The biggest time consuming steps are trimming and powder measuring. An auto measure and good trimmer would cut down on the time substantially but also add quite a bit to the cost. Most of it goes pretty fast though. As fast as you can place the brass in the ram and run the handle or in the primer and squeeze.

For example, you can get "a press" for 70 bucks. You can get a pimp daddy press for 400. The $400 press has an advertised 4-600 rounds per hour and many guys get that rate too.
 

RGN

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2000
6,623
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that is a good question apec, I'd like to see some data on that. I shoot some .50AE and .44mag/spl, all of which are big money rounds. But if it takes 1 min per, that is already not worth it.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: Gibsons
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Coolness. I don't shoot, but I can imagine this'll be handy. I know if you do the load wrong your gun can blow up, so be careful everyone.

Best advice is have your starting charges 10% off maximum. Make sure your using the data for YOUR powder as it all differs. If your maximum charge weight was 25 grains (Which for this load it is) you would start at 22.5 grains and work up. 24 grains in this case is still well within specs but a touch on the hot side.

Also stick with the recommended measurements from the load manual for OAL and things of that nature.

Reloading can be a very rewarding hobby when you find a load that routinely outshoots anything available off the shelf for half the cost, but its not a hobby to do half assed or when your mind is not "in the game". Screwing up in reloading can get you seriously injured or killed! Pay attention, take your time and have fun. :)

A friend of mine probably should've read something like this. I forget what he was shooting, maybe a 270? He managed to drive himself to the hospital, but has some nasty scars on his arm to show for it. The deer got away. ;)

Haha, like I said we're dicking around with roughly 50,000 PSi a few inches from our face. No sense getting stupid. While you CAN go over the maximum rated charges you need to have a few years under your belt and pay damn close attention to what your doing. I do NOT recommend it, EVER. a few hundred more FPS is not worth your rifle or your nose. :)
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
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Looks like a good writeup! My dad reloads as well, and if I ask him nicely he'll reload my .45's for me :)
 

Trogdor91

Senior member
Sep 22, 2004
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I don't own a firearm, but I did read it all and I must say thank you. I enjoy learning how things work etc and it's not often someone posts anything near that helpful and informative on the interwebs nowadays. This post is only to give you this :beer:
 

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
Originally posted by: apac
How long does it typically take to reload, say, 100 rounds? There are quite a few steps in that process, and time is money.

Depends on your equipment. With my progressive Dillon press, I can crank out 100 rounds in a couple of minutes if everything else is ready to go.

If it is not ready and i have to set everything up, that takes me about a half an hour to get everything right for the load I want. Then I can crank a good 1500 rounds an hour if I wanted to.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: RGN
that is a good question apec, I'd like to see some data on that. I shoot some .50AE and .44mag/spl, all of which are big money rounds. But if it takes 1 min per, that is already not worth it.

Its probably also the most difficult question to answer as well as its highly dependent on equipment and skill, although far more so on equipment. A straight walled pistol case doesnt need trimmed so you should be able to get a progressive reloader and knock out a couple hundred an hour. With the costs of .44 mag being what they are it could well save you some decent cash.

Then you also have the fact you can tailor the load however you want. Make a cooler load for plinking and a hotter load for those day days as it were. Pick your bullet type etc etc.

But really, its just a hard question to answer. With a 550B I'd take a stab and say 3-500 rounds an hour. Flip side is rifle takes a bit more prep on the cases the pistol so that figure wouldnt be entirely accurate.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: Trogdor91
I don't own a firearm, but I did read it all and I must say thank you. I enjoy learning how things work etc and it's not often someone posts anything near that helpful and informative on the interwebs nowadays. This post is only to give you this :beer:

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it even if it wasnt directly useful to you. :)
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
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I'm curious... Does anyone here "take it to the next level" and cast their own bullets out of lead?
 

The Yeti

Member
Jan 26, 2007
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:D Thanks man, great post. Loves me some Blackhills, its all i've been shooting for the past six months and have really gotten spoiled on it. I'm dreading having to buy my own, so i'll have to give this a try later on down the road. Thanks again man, really informative post. Copied and saved.

You must be a fellow m4carbiner/arfcomer. Can't believe they let you in here. ;)
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm curious... Does anyone here "take it to the next level" and cast their own bullets out of lead?

I have not, although I suppose I could post a guide I found on how to turn those spent .22LR shells into .223 bullets. :D
 

OdiN

Banned
Mar 1, 2000
16,430
3
0
I used to reload shotgun shells with my dad growing up, until target loads got so cheap that it didn't save any money.

Reloading shotgun shells is pretty quick though.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: The Yeti
:D Thanks man, great post. Loves me some Blackhills, its all i've been shooting for the past six months and have really gotten spoiled on it. I'm dreading having to buy my own, so i'll have to give this a try later on down the road. Thanks again man, really informative post. Copied and saved.

You must be a fellow m4carbiner/arfcomer. Can't believe they let you in here. ;)

Haha, yeah I've been on Arfcom a bit. Same handle too in fact except with an underscore (specop_007).

If you really want to work up a similiar load you will also need a chronograph. Additionally, trying to mimic milspec loads can be risky business as some of those are unbelievably hot. The test loads for the MK262 stuff was just off the freaking map. I mean shit your pants, how did we not blow up the test rifle high.

Also, theres a bunch of different equipment out there. The guide I posted is for my particular setup and while the general principles are the same there would be minor differences depending on your particular setup.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Damn dude, and I thought 9mm rounds squeezed my wallet. I don't have a rifle yet, but when I do I'm for damn sure going to look into reloading. No way I could afford it otherwise!

Excellent post. One question. What was your startup cost for all your tools?
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
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Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
Damn dude, and I thought 9mm rounds squeezed my wallet. I don't have a rifle yet, but when I do I'm for damn sure going to look into reloading. No way I could afford it otherwise!

Excellent post. One question. What was your startup cost for all your tools?

My setup is a bit unique because I was given the press kit. I have a Rockchucker which is widely regarded as the best single stage press money can buy, and its a bit pricey.

I have the following

RCBS Rockchucker kit - $249
Pact precision scale - $114
Lyman tumbler - $50

Thats the real meat of what I have, plus a few odds and ends such as dies which are another 20 bucks or so per caliber, tumbler media for another 15 or so, and some small assorted hand tools such as the primer pocket and case mouth cleaner.

I chose the scale because it has an optional auto dispenser for another 100 or so, the unit basically tells the dispenser when to stop dispensing so you automatically get the charges each time without doing it by hand.

None of this stuff is entry level by any means though.

You could start off with this for a very reasonable $70. You'd still need a case trimmer of some type (Mine was $30 or so) and dies however.

A little higher up the food chain as far as kits go, this comes with a trimmer.

Personally I'd buy each component individually rather then as a kit to get exactly what i needed and wanted.

And yes, 9mm is quite cheap to shoot by comparison. I love my 9 :)
As far as just plinking ammo, its hard to reload much under the cost of Wolf. Doable, but you need to go bulk. Flip side is, you can reload steel cased ammo, but only once. Shhh, dont tell anyone I told you. Just smile and nod when they give you grief for picking up the spent Wolf ammo. ;)
 

OrganizedChaos

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2002
4,524
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Awesome post. I've got a few stupid questions though.

How sensitive are the primers? If you have a woops with one, can it do any damage?

How many times and you reload a case? How do you know when not to reload it anymore?

How do they get the powder into the little cylinder shapes?
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
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Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
Awesome post. I've got a few stupid questions though.

How sensitive are the primers? If you have a woops with one, can it do any damage?

How many times and you reload a case? How do you know when not to reload it anymore?

How do they get the powder into the little cylinder shapes?

Primer sensitivity depends on what type you get, but they certainly wont go off by dropping them. I also tumble my rounds after there loaded to get the last little lube off of them and get them nice and shiny. No worries. If you seat one in wrong as long as you dont really mash on the primer handle you can remove it. I use regular pliers to remove bad seated primers, but you should always wear eye protection just in case. Primers have a lot of oomph to them and you only have 1 set of eyes!

How often you can reload the cases depends on a few things. How much you resize them (Which goes back to tweaking your sizing die) and how hot your loads are. On average figure 4 reloads, although you can get over 7 if you dont run hot loads and dont resize the brass much. The brand of brass matters as well, some brass is just better brass then others. Lake City is generally regarded as a very good cheap brass.

You can tell when they cant be reloaded anymore by how loose the primer pocket is and looking for signs of wear such as cracks.

The powder? No clue.... :)
 

BuckNaked

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,211
0
76
Originally posted by: RGN
that is a good question apec, I'd like to see some data on that. I shoot some .50AE and .44mag/spl, all of which are big money rounds. But if it takes 1 min per, that is already not worth it.
I can crank out about 400-450 rounds an hour of .45 acp on my Dillon 550...

 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Woh... I have been thinking about getting a set up for my .30/06 and .40 .
And here you are posing about yours.....
cool
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
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0
This thread has an excellent post about chasing mil spec ammo with your handloads.

Look about 10 posts down, with the graphs in it. Read the whole thread so you have an idea what all is being discussed.

Thread

To sum up, the NATO proof loads develop 70,000 PSI. The MK262 loads were WELL over that. Proof loads are considered the highest rated load as a test ONLY, NOT as field use pressures. Some of the 262 loads were over 10,000 psi ABOVE the test loads.

To put that in perspective, .223 SAAMI pressure tests are I believe 55 or 60,000 PSI. A original MK262 load is a full 20,000+ PSI above maximum SAAMI specs on a .223 rifle. And yes, the MK262 is a 5.56 load which means it WILL chamber in a .223 rifle.

Bad juju. Anyways, most of the mil spec loads run hot as it is even for NATO chambers. 5.56 chambers are rated at higher pressure levels then .223. I would not want to be running mil spec ammo in a simple .223 rifle too often. While the rifle will probably be fine, again do you want to play around with 60,000 PSI of hot gasses 5 inches from your nose?

But the point is it makes it hard to get a "mil spec" load. You need to load the ammo hot and that means high pressures and possibly over pressure. You need to know what your doing and pay attention to signs of too much pressure on your handloads.

In my honest opinion, it just isnt worth it.