For the people who drive a MT vehicle.

[Throckmorton]

You're not wearing the clutch at all when the pedal is pushed to the floor. That's what it means to have the clutch disengaged. And you're not wearing the transmission either. The gears are always meshed, it's always spinning

ZV

You're wearing the springs...


When you're engine braking, there's load on the transmission, which means more wear. Not that I don't engine brake, but I don't go to lower gears to increase resistance

 

[Arkaign]

Yes. However, it seems time kills throw out bearings more than actual use does.

Throw out bearings go out on cars and trucks that are rarely driven and are 25 years old.. lol. Not on modern automobiles that are driven regularly. Realistically, in most cases.. the throw out bearing will easily outlive the clutch itself.

There are probably poorly engineered examples, etc.. but the throw out bearing's job, while important, isn't exactly that stressful compared to a lot of the other bearings in your engine/transmission that nobody ever thinks of.

Hahaha, I brought it up I guess my gf is the exception that proves the rule. She has an 06 Kia Rio with 81k on it, the throwout bearing started squawking about 3k ago (press clutch in from a stop out of gear .. shriiiieeeeeek/squeal!), and now its toast. The clutch may be the cause though, idk. Ugh. There's this little thing sticking out of the clutch that's broken off. I'll see if I can take pics and post them this afternoon.

 

[Eli]

Hahaha, I brought it up I guess my gf is the exception that proves the rule. She has an 06 Kia Rio with 81k on it, the throwout bearing started squawking about 3k ago (press clutch in from a stop out of gear .. shriiiieeeeeek/squeal!), and now its toast. The clutch may be the cause though, idk. Ugh. There's this little thing sticking out of the clutch that's broken off. I'll see if I can take pics and post them this afternoon.

:awe:

That sucks though. Wonder if it's a problem with that particular model? 80k seems ridiculously low.. But yeah, it does happen I guess.

 

[ShawnD1]

Try to imagine the scenario. You're at a stop with your foot holding the clutch. You start to seizure out because you took too much insulin. Your foot leaves the pedals and your diesel powered Dodge Ram 3500 starts chugging forward in first gear. The neighborhood kids are having some fun and they tied the ethnic minority kid to a tree - the same tree your truck is moving toward. Even though it's slight up hill and your truck needs to get up a rounded residential curb, it doesn't slow down. You plow into him going 10mph and he dies. It's all your fault! D:

Come to think of it, this is exactly what happens when a vehicle has an automatic transmission :hmm:

When you're engine braking, there's load on the transmission, which means more wear. Not that I don't engine brake, but I don't go to lower gears to increase resistance

If it doesn't blow apart when you're hammering the gas, it won't blow apart when you're gently slowing down. The clutch is different. If you properly rev match and don't ride the clutch, engine braking should put almost no wear on anything.
Of course a lot of people (idiots) don't do that so they'll shift it from 4 to 2 without tapping the gas pedal, then they'll ride the clutch while doing it because they don't want the car to lurch D:

In some cases, engine braking is significantly cheaper than normal braking. Big ass trucks always engine brake when they are pulling stuff because it greatly reduces wear on the normal brakes.
It's also a good idea to engine brake when you are going down a long hill. Riding the brakes for a mile while pulling a fiberglass boat down hill is a great way to make your brakes start on fire (lol Chrysler recall).

 

[Arkaign]

:awe:

That sucks though. Wonder if it's a problem with that particular model? 80k seems ridiculously low.. But yeah, it does happen I guess.

Hahah yeah it is really low to have a problem this severe.

Even when the thing was squawking like crazy, it still shifted like butter smooth, so at that point I think the clutch itself and the pressure plate were okay. It stayed like that for about a month, then in the space of a couple of hours things got really bad. It started getting hard to shift, the squealing went away, and it totally broke.

http://imageshack.us/g/12/dscn0170f.jpg/

That's a gallery with really big pics. I'm not even sure what that thing is called that's sticking out of the tranny area, but it snapped off, I tried to get as good pics as possible just now.

 

[hanoverphist]

i bought my dodge ram 1500 used with 84k on it. in 4 months of driving the TB started making hellish noises and finally the clutch went out. had it replaced, been driving on it since dec 2006 and have about 225k miles on the same clutch and TB. and im a bastard on that clutch a lot. i dont think ive ever rev matched to slow down, just down shift and let it fly with no throttle.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Not that I disagree with this in any meaningful way, but isn't the throwout bearing engaged during this scenario, and recieving some minor amount of use that isn't there when just sitting in neutral?

And you're wearing the wheel bearings by driving the car. And wearing the main bearings by running the engine. And you wear the lock mechanism every time you lock the doors. And bearings in the steering box every time you go around a corner...

The amount of wear on a throwout bearing from holding the clutch down is infinitesimal. I've never seen a throwout bearing wear out from that. I've seen them wear out from defects, from improper lubrication, from maladjustment, but never from someone holding the clutch in at traffic lights.

You're wearing the springs...

See above answer.

When you're engine braking, there's load on the transmission, which means more wear. Not that I don't engine brake, but I don't go to lower gears to increase resistance

There's much less load on the transmission when engine braking than there is when accelerating. If you aren't destroying the transmission when going up hills or accelerating onto the freeway, you won't do a bit of damage by engine braking.

ZV

 

[Eli]

Looks like your slave cylinder broke. Odd? Looks like an easy replacement though. This has nothing to do with the throw out bearing in and of itself.. Would be curious to know the outcome of your final fix.

Betting lack of lubrication is the problem, not necessarily the throwout bearing itself. Maybe the throwout bearing seized onto the input shaft, breaking your slave cylinder?

 

[Arkaign]

Looks like your slave cylinder broke. Odd? Looks like an easy replacement though. This has nothing to do with the throw out bearing in and of itself.. Would be curious to know the outcome of your final fix.

Betting lack of lubrication is the problem, not necessarily the throwout bearing itself. Maybe the throwout bearing seized onto the input shaft, breaking your slave cylinder?

This is almost certainly what happened, as a good friend of mine who's worked 40-60 hour weeks for over two decades dealing with all kinds of drivetrains initially diagnosed the throwout bearing as failing. It seems like it just seized and snapped the thing. Ergh 😀

 

[exdeath]

Id put my car on jack stands every day when I park it so I don't wear out the suspension springs....but I don't want to wear out my frame either. What should I do?

 

[ShawnD1]

Id put my car on jack stands every day when I parl it so I don't wear out the suspension springs....but I don't want to wear out my frame either. What should I do?

protect the frame from rust:
Buy a bar of zinc or tin, put a layer of semi-permeable material between the zinc bar and the car frame, secure the bar in such a way that the zinc and car frame are never touching, then connect your car battery's positive terminal to the zinc bar.
disclaimer: if the zinc bar makes contact with the frame, your car will die a horrible death.

half reactions would be:
Zn --> Zn^+2 + 2 e^-
Fe^+2 + 2e^- --> Fe

The system is called an electrolytic cell, the zinc bar is the sacrificial anode. Good luck! :thumbsup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Id put my car on jack stands every day when I parl it so I don't wear out the suspension springs....but I don't want to wear out my frame either. What should I do?

😀

 

[JCH13]

Id put my car on jack stands every day when I parl it so I don't wear out the suspension springs....but I don't want to wear out my frame either. What should I do?

Fill your car with helium. Wait... that might wear out your headliner...

protect the frame from rust:
Buy a bar of zinc or tin, put a layer of semi-permeable material between the zinc bar and the car frame, secure the bar in such a way that the zinc and car frame are never touching, then connect your car battery's positive terminal to the zinc bar.
disclaimer: if the zinc bar makes contact with the frame, your car will die a horrible death.

half reactions would be:
Zn --> Zn^+2 + 2 e^-
Fe^+2 + 2e^- --> Fe

The system is called an electrolytic cell, the zinc bar is the sacrificial anode. Good luck! :thumbsup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection

Hi, my name is sarcasm, I don't think we've met before, but I hear you like to continually spew out electrochemical and cathodic protection reactions so people think you're cool.

 

[ShawnD1]

Fill your car with helium. Wait... that might wear out your headliner...



Hi, my name is sarcasm, I don't think we've met before, but I hear you like to continually spew out electrochemical and cathodic protection reactions so people think you're cool.

I also inflate my tires to sidewall.... with propane

 

[MBrown]

I also inflate my tires to sidewall.... with propane

ROFL!!!

 

[Arkaign]

Alright, update with the Kia, more updates to come. My GF is a downshifter, unfortunately, although she's now changed her mind. Me and one of my mechanic buddies just spent 10 straight hours in 100 degree texas heat changing the fucking clutch on that pile of shit, and the cause :

A throwout bearing made mostly of ... plastic? The Flywheel and Clutch themselves were 100% perfect. The god-damned TOB came apart, what was left was three distinct pieces, the rest of it dissolved inside the clutch housing. The plastic inner part of the TOB disintegrated, letting the metal rings completely wear down the metal splines that used to be on the transmission housing, and it caused the fork to jump, breaking the slave cylinder, and also seriously fubaring the pressure plate.

The replacement TOB that we got from SouthWest Kia of Dallas is apparently the only one, and indeed the new one is also made of plastic. Although the new one fit and held the fork, which was banged up but not bent, the splines on that connector being worn off mean that it's now a bit loose. It's probably going to fail again soon. The parts/service manager at the Kia dealership says that tons of the early 'JB' Rios have failing manual trannies at well under 100k miles. The real kicker? The god damned motherfucking transmission now has a bunch of spiderweb cracks in the housing facing the driver's side wheel well, and they go from top to bottom. Ughhhhhh. So either the TOB is gonna fail again soon, or the tranny housing is gonna shatter.

So, bottom line is that a car that inexplicably has a shit quality TOB can indeed cause catastrophic damage, and yes, going to neutral and being on the clutch as little as possible with that scenario is a fucking fine idea.

Perhaps/probably most quality cars and probably all more classic cars have beefier TOBs that aren't such trash.

/rant off. I'm just pissed that this little piece of plastic garbage just cost me about $800 alone today, and unless we dump this POS soon, it's gonna be a full transmission replacement pretty quickly.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

When I come to a stop in my Z28 6MT ill start braking in 5th and then downshift to 4th and engine brake while braking until i almost come to a stop, then I put the clutch in and shift into first. When slowing down though I almost always engine brake if it isnt critical to stop right away. The flowmaster pipes make this real nice sound too when I engine brake. Less resistance ftw! I must be doing something right because the beast gets 17.5mpgs! The way I accelerate from a stop you gotta think id be getting like 14 which I used to when my spark plug wire was melting away on the manifold. 95 Camaro Z28 btw.

 

[Eli]

I also inflate my tires to sidewall.... with propane

LMFAO

I don't know why, but that made me LOL. A lot.

 

[Eli]

Alright, update with the Kia, more updates to come. My GF is a downshifter, unfortunately, although she's now changed her mind. Me and one of my mechanic buddies just spent 10 straight hours in 100 degree texas heat changing the fucking clutch on that pile of shit, and the cause :

A throwout bearing made mostly of ... plastic? The Flywheel and Clutch themselves were 100% perfect. The god-damned TOB came apart, what was left was three distinct pieces, the rest of it dissolved inside the clutch housing. The plastic inner part of the TOB disintegrated, letting the metal rings completely wear down the metal splines that used to be on the transmission housing, and it caused the fork to jump, breaking the slave cylinder, and also seriously fubaring the pressure plate.

The replacement TOB that we got from SouthWest Kia of Dallas is apparently the only one, and indeed the new one is also made of plastic. Although the new one fit and held the fork, which was banged up but not bent, the splines on that connector being worn off mean that it's now a bit loose. It's probably going to fail again soon. The parts/service manager at the Kia dealership says that tons of the early 'JB' Rios have failing manual trannies at well under 100k miles. The real kicker? The god damned motherfucking transmission now has a bunch of spiderweb cracks in the housing facing the driver's side wheel well, and they go from top to bottom. Ughhhhhh. So either the TOB is gonna fail again soon, or the tranny housing is gonna shatter.

So, bottom line is that a car that inexplicably has a shit quality TOB can indeed cause catastrophic damage, and yes, going to neutral and being on the clutch as little as possible with that scenario is a fucking fine idea.

Perhaps/probably most quality cars and probably all more classic cars have beefier TOBs that aren't such trash.

/rant off. I'm just pissed that this little piece of plastic garbage just cost me about $800 alone today, and unless we dump this POS soon, it's gonna be a full transmission replacement pretty quickly.

Damn man, that sucks. I'd re-check the "spiderweb" cracking though. It's probably just casting flash. It seems highly unlikely that the transmission has failed in such a manner.. and is still in one piece, with the forces they see.

But don't convince your girlfriend to stop her good driving habits because her car is a POS. 😛