For the Israeli Country, Operation Cast Lead was effective.

[Freshgeardude]

The article I read the information from does focus specifically about the success of the operation, but speaks on a secondary topic.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=191761

Israel’s increased deterrence since Cast Lead remains, and has prevented the terrorist organization from launching a major attack so far.

The number of rockets and mortar shells fired from Gaza at civilian targets in Israel fell dramatically in recent years, from 3,276 in 2008 before the Gaza operation was launched, to 369 in 2009, the IDF said. So far this year, Gazans fired 277 projectiles at Israelis.

Southern communities like Sderot have gone from being nearly uninhabitable to thriving property hot zones, the source said, adding that the change was evidence of the improved security situation.

I think people in israel are very glad operation cast lead occured.

look at those numbers!

3276/277 = 11.8 x100 = 1180% decrease in projectile (missile or mortars) fire.

I think this is excellent news.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I totally agree@!!
Don`t let the lemon laws of this world tell you the only reason there have been less rockets and mortars fired is due to this so called peace process or due to Hamas desiring peace!!

IT is only due to Israel making it known the next time force is needed it will be more aggressive.

You know I have always been of the opinion that Israel taking US aid has been one of Israel`s downfalls as a nation.

The main reason being we have been pulling our punches for such a very long time.
Without US aid there would be no palestinian issues or middle east issue for Israel.
Mainly because when you go it alone - survival is everything!

The bottom line is the middle east does not want to think they can back Israel into a corner.
This has nothing to do with well Israel does not have enough troops to be an occupational force!! -- We all know that.....duh!!

But then again Israel unleashed...would make many many middle eastern countries and groups like Hamas have second thoughts...

Just my pro-Israel opinion!!

 

[SamurAchzar]

Wait for the Hamas choir to say this is because Hamas decided to give peace a chance, or something along these lines. Just like they won't acknowledge that the ONLY reason there are no more suicide bombings inside Israel is the preventive actions of the security forces (as well as the West Bank fence).

So you CAN effectively curb terrorism, and do so without brutalizing the population (i.e. different methods than employed by Arab regimes and the Russians). Israel has been a pioneer in that, and now countries all over the world come to it for training and advice.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Hamas is not stupid - they learned that one shold not twist a tiger's tail.

However, one can still poke the tiger to see what the response is.

 

[Craig234]

How many Israelis were killed by the 3,276 rockets in 2008?

 

[Freshgeardude]

How many Israelis were killed by the 3,276 rockets in 2008?

Lol.

if I fire 100 bullets at you and 99 miss but one skims your arm, is it still ok I missed 99 times?


for a group to fire rockets into civilian cities on purpose is completely unacceptable. Each attack gives israel a legal reason to start a war with gaza. the fact that they have shown restraint is amazing enough.


How many missile attacks would the us accept if mexico fired at a city in the us?

 

[Craig234]

Craig234: How many Israelis were killed by the 3,276 rockets in 2008?

FGD : Don't know.

Fixed.

 

[Lemon law]

There is an old saying, the way to kill your enemy is teach them a bad habit.

But I will agree with the OP, that the massive disproportional response used against Gaza and Lebanon in 2008 and 2006 has totally cowed Hamas and Hezbollah.

But as Craig234 points out, the Rockets fired at Israel are mere annoyances as we must ask is this kind of terrorism a symptom of a disease or the disease itself?

The real threat to Israel, IMHO, will come from Stateless terrorists, who will use the territory of States surrounding Israel without their knowledge or consent to launch false flag attacks on Israel. And the shit will hit the fan when the payloads cease to be mere explosives and become chemical, biological, or radiological weapons. The technology to do this is fairly old, but not in the terrorists arsenal yet. How long before they will have the technology? And if they are better funded, it will take less time. And as Israeli settlements on disputed lands keep increasing, terrorist funding will likely increase faster world wide.

If this mid-east problem is not soon resolved and defused with a Palestinian State, the disease of anti-Israeli terrorism will simply take new and more deadly forms. The deadly habit may be that Israel will over react and start becoming a deadly danger to the entire region, killing friends and foes, as the rockets range and guidance systems become better and the payloads become more deadly.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

+1 for Israel.

 

[SamurAchzar]

How many Israelis were killed by the 3,276 rockets in 2008?

I don't know the numbers, but lets assume "0". It almost seems like you're saying that it's OK to shoot rockets at countries around you as long as they don't kill anyone.

 

[SamurAchzar]

But I will agree with the OP, that the massive disproportional response used against Gaza and Lebanon in 2008 and 2006 has totally cowed Hamas and Hezbollah.

If the goal of the Israeli government was to assure a fair and level field for military skirmishes with Muslims, that was indeed misguided and over the top. If the goal of the Israelis was to make sure no rockets are fired and no soldiers are kidnapped, I'd say mission very well accomplished.

But as Craig234 points out, the Rockets fired at Israel are mere annoyances

"Mere annoyances" I can see how a San Diego radio station reports the harmless rockets shot over from Mexico together with the weather forecast for the same day. Would you dare to visit - let alone live - in a place that was subjected to about 10 of these "annoyances" each and every day?

The real threat to Israel, IMHO, will come from Stateless terrorists, who will use the territory of States surrounding Israel without their knowledge or consent to launch false flag attacks on Israel. And the shit will hit the fan when the payloads cease to be mere explosives and become chemical, biological, or radiological weapons. The technology to do this is fairly old, but not in the terrorists arsenal yet. How long before they will have the technology? And if they are better funded, it will take less time. And as Israeli settlements on disputed lands keep increasing, terrorist funding will likely increase faster world wide.

Stateless terrorists are far more interested in Europe and US, and for a good reason. It is in orders of magnitude easier to operate in Asia, Africa, Europe or US than it is in Israel.

If this mid-east problem is not soon resolved and defused with a Palestinian State, the disease of anti-Israeli terrorism will simply take new and more deadly forms. The deadly habit may be that Israel will over react and start becoming a deadly danger to the entire region, killing friends and foes, as the rockets range and guidance systems become better and the payloads become more deadly.

Is that a prediction, assessment or a dream?

 

[Scotteq]

How many Israelis were killed by the 3,276 rockets in 2008?

I don't know the numbers, but lets assume "0". It almost seems like you're saying that it's OK to shoot rockets at countries around you as long as they don't kill anyone.

Depending on who you believe, the "score" is something like 867 to 22, with the Palestinians (obviously) receiving the brunt.


Combined Rocket and Mortar Hits: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rock_mort_gaza_2008.JPG



Casualties: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:I...tinians_killed_by_Israelis_in_Gaza_-_2008.png

 

[Freshgeardude]

Fixed.

you can come up with excuses for terrorists all day long, you still will always sound like a moron.

The fact is that the US, EU, Russia, Australia, and pretty much the rest of the world (besides arab world) consider hamas a terrorist organization

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Meanwhile, the Israelis continue their march into madness:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...cId=CNG.8b21ca4f0fe5ded152fb7235fcbc6338.1351

 

[EagleKeeper]

There is an old saying, the way to kill your enemy is teach them a bad habit.

But I will agree with the OP, that the massive disproportional response used against Gaza and Lebanon in 2008 and 2006 has totally cowed Hamas and Hezbollah.

But as Craig234 points out, the Rockets fired at Israel are mere annoyances as we must ask is this kind of terrorism a symptom of a disease or the disease itself?

The real threat to Israel, IMHO, will come from Stateless terrorists, who will use the territory of States surrounding Israel without their knowledge or consent to launch false flag attacks on Israel. And the shit will hit the fan when the payloads cease to be mere explosives and become chemical, biological, or radiological weapons. The technology to do this is fairly old, but not in the terrorists arsenal yet. How long before they will have the technology? And if they are better funded, it will take less time. And as Israeli settlements on disputed lands keep increasing, terrorist funding will likely increase faster world wide.

If this mid-east problem is not soon resolved and defused with a Palestinian State, the disease of anti-Israeli terrorism will simply take new and more deadly forms. The deadly habit may be that Israel will over react and start becoming a deadly danger to the entire region, killing friends and foes, as the rockets range and guidance systems become better and the payloads become more deadly.

Why blame the Pals for the Mid East issues. That is an excuse.

The real problem is the Arabs that do not want Israel to exist and have become embarassed because even with all their might and money are unable to budge them.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

How many Israelis were killed by the 3,276 rockets in 2008?

Are these rockets deadly? Were their intentions to kill Israelis?

Would you be ok with living under constant attack or would you want your nation to do something about it?

Israel could have wiped out the entire area if they wanted to, they DID show great restraint in not just doing that, much more so than any other nation i know of.

 

[Lemon law]

Well the Brits, the USA, and Nato can wipe out every man woman and child in Afghanistan too, Is that showing restraint?

Meanwhile JOS you and the Nato policies you totally advocate mean that Nato will totally fail in Afghanistan. As Nato crawls in bed with a different set or drug lords, corrupt government officials, and sows the seeds of anarchy corruption and regional instability.

Somehow I do not think your endorsement of Israel and its current Israeli behavior can result in anything but the terrorist victory you and I both hope to avoid.

Terrorism is never the cause of a disease, its merely a symptom, now are we going to treat the disease or will we try to put a ineffectual band aid over the symptoms while solving nothing?

 

[Freshgeardude]

Well the Brits, the USA, and Nato can wipe out every man woman and child in Afghanistan too, Is that showing restraint?

Meanwhile JOS you and the Nato policies you totally advocate mean that Nato will totally fail in Afghanistan. As Nato crawls in bed with a different set or drug lords, corrupt government officials, and sows the seeds of anarchy corruption and regional instability.

Somehow I do not think your endorsement of Israel and its current Israeli behavior can result in anything but the terrorist victory you and I both hope to avoid.

Terrorism is never the cause of a disease, its merely a symptom, now are we going to treat the disease or will we try to put a ineffectual band aid over the symptoms while solving nothing?

So the US is at fault for terrorism on its nation right? its a mere symptom that 3k died on 9/11.

Israel is responsible for the terrorism that occured before 48 with the settlements? in 48? bus bombs? suicide bombs? rocket fire?

you can go ahead and pretend terrorism is on the level of say, taxes, something that affect people not really, while the rest of the world sees the atrocities that terrorism is.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Well the Brits, the USA, and Nato can wipe out every man woman and child in Afghanistan too, Is that showing restraint?

Meanwhile JOS you and the Nato policies you totally advocate mean that Nato will totally fail in Afghanistan. As Nato crawls in bed with a different set or drug lords, corrupt government officials, and sows the seeds of anarchy corruption and regional instability.

Somehow I do not think your endorsement of Israel and its current Israeli behavior can result in anything but the terrorist victory you and I both hope to avoid.

Terrorism is never the cause of a disease, its merely a symptom, now are we going to treat the disease or will we try to put a ineffectual band aid over the symptoms while solving nothing?

Was the war against Afghanistan the right thing to do?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

So the US is at fault for terrorism on its nation right? its a mere symptom that 3k died on 9/11.

Israel is responsible for the terrorism that occured before 48 with the settlements? in 48? bus bombs? suicide bombs? rocket fire?

you can go ahead and pretend terrorism is on the level of say, taxes, something that affect people not really, while the rest of the world sees the atrocities that terrorism is.

Well yeah, see the problem Hamas and before them PLO has with Jews is that they are alive, that is the disease and the terrorism is the symptom.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It`s there country they can do as they please.
But if you bothered to read the link you posted is says --

The 30-member coalition cabinet endorsed the draft amendment by 22-eight and it has to be approved by parliament before becoming law.

It has not happenned as of yet but let us say it does happen--

SamurAchazar in a different thread made a very astute observation concerning the German`s problem with immigration. Even though the German problem is aimed at muslims I will try to make some of what Samur says applicable to what I am saying!

The following is what Samur posted -- my comments will be BOLDED...

Germans are entitled to decide who's getting in their country and who doesn't. This has nothing to do with Nazism, it has to do with maintaining national identity and some degree of homogeneous population. It's very easy to judge people from afar, but what would happen if your neighborhood was inhabited by large number of uneducated Muslim Middle Easterns, who have decidedly different values and mentality? -- The same principle applies in in Israel --
It`s their country they can as they please!!
Only in this case it has a whole lot to do with National identity.
Definately a homogenuous pure population.
People of different values and mentality are more apt to refuse to swear allegiance to a country thatb they care littlr or nothing about!

Many of these people aren't immigrating to Germany in order to be Germans. They are just looking for a more accommodating place to continue living their current lives, and this is destructive. This is how you form ghettos and get an uneducated, violent, religious underclass which later goes on to burn down your cities (think of Paris). -- IMO the same can be said and probably more so in Israel!

I doubt it has much to do with economic conditions, it's squarely directed at the Muslims coming in. You'd be a fool not to see the context here.-- of course this is directed at the Palestinians and the Arabs living in Israel who have it better in Israel than in their own country!If Europe, as a whole, doesn't curb down Muslim immigration there will be severe problems down the line, from both sides. -- same can be said of Israel and even more so. Look at how small a country Israel it is..... Look it california right now -- we let the legal as well as the illegal hispanics in to our state and now it would appear that Americans in California will soon become a minorty,..lol

This has nothing to do with things being right or wrong thats the way it is in many countries in the world. The only reason Israel is being singled out is because it`s israel...lol

 

[Lemon law]

JOS asks a totally weird question by asking, "Was the war against Afghanistan the right thing to do?"

Oddly enough JOS I too maintain the Afghan war post 911 was the right thing to do, the mere detail and triviality problem is that way the USA and Nato have conducted the Afghan military occupation has turned tragically incompetent and wrong, and as a result Nato has only shot itself in the foot as it seems bound and determined to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory.

As for the FGD statement of, "Israel is responsible for the terrorism that occured before 48 with the settlements? in 48? bus bombs? suicide bombs? rocket fire?"

Well FGD you are correct, before 1948, Israel was historically responsible for the bulk of mid-east terrorism. The litany of the bombing of the King David Hotel, and Israeli mass murder of Arabs and Palestinians established the history of tit for tat violence that persists to this day.

Or we can look at it another way, there is a zero chance that Israel can ever be an accepted part of the Mid-east as it keeps swelling mid-east hatred, but there is a finite and non-zero chance Israel can become an accepted part of the mid-east if it defuses the hatreds and allows a Palestinian State.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I think this video shows a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwjOaQEaFcc

but no one was killed and it is only a symptom.


so its all ok.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Well FGD you are correct, before 1948, Israel was historically responsible for the bulk of mid-east terrorism. The litany of the bombing of the King David Hotel, and Israeli mass murder of Arabs and Palestinians established the history of tit for tat violence that persists to this day.

the bulk right?

you failed to mention the many arab riots and massacres that occured before the jews created groups like the haganah to defend themselves.

This list starts at 1920, and does not include the late 1800s till 1919.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_committed_prior_to_the_1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_war_in_Mandate_Palestine

All before the declaration of the state of israel.

If we only count attacks, not counters (direct reprisals for actions) as the responsible party, the breakdown comes to:

48 arab attacks
5 British
25 jewish attacks

Of the above, some were counted for all 3, since it was listed as such.
some counted for both jews and arabs because of no clear responsibility by description.

Almost DOUBLE the amount of jewish attacks were arab attacks.

Also note, ALL arab attacks were directed at jews or involved at least one jew to die, while some Jewish attacks were aimed at the british, and only British were.

It is restricted to incidents in which at least 3 civilians or non-combat military personnel were deliberately killed in actions that were military, politically or racially motivated.


still think your shit doesnt smell LL?

 

[Lemon law]

FGD, you are somewhat correct in saying, "you failed to mention the many arab riots and massacres that occured before the jews created groups like the haganah to defend themselves."

As you and both therefore concede there are two or more sides to the story.

What the larger world must now search for is what is fair to all sides. We cannot change a really rotten past, and now must look towards a fair balance.

But you FGD, are crazy in head if you think Israel pigging it all will be an acceptable or be a final solution.

But that is now the gauntlet Netanyuhu has cast down as any Israeli charade of fairness has now ended.