For Military Vets: Cuts to Post 9/11 GI Bill

[Proprioceptive]

No, you obviously don't when you accused me of BS. You realize the Post 9/11 GI Bill uses the rate of the most expensive public school undergraduate tuition and fees right? Obviously you didn't when you accused me of being a liar or you wouldn't have accused me of such. There is more than one public school in Kansas......quit trying to backtrack...you called me a liar when it is you who need to educate yourself before throwing around accusations. No wonder you don't mind the cuts...you don't know what it all entails which you reveal by how much you don't know about the GI Bill.

1) I did not call you a liar
2) That has been no backtracking here
3) You said "Kansas" and I was under the impression you meant University of Kansas, hence the link... which apparently this is not the case and I apologize.
4) My knowledge of the GI Bill is just fine, and this has nothing to do with the fact that I do not mind a decrease in funding to the program.

 

[SP33Demon]

Yeah but the Post 9/11 GI Bill is capped at the most expensive public school. This just further locks in veterans to public schools...why? I think vet organizations may have been hoodwinked into going along with this change along the lines that CycloWizard suggests.

Well, if it's already capped to most expensive public school then it shouldn't be that big of a deal. While it does limit options, the quality of education of private vs public is a wash. The only people that will really be hurt are the outliers (i.e. very smart cookies) who would want to go Ivy League.

The explanation we're given is:

According to IAVA, they recommended these cuts in order to cover the addition expense of expanding GI Bill coverage for National Guard soldiers and Reservists [called to active duty].

While it does suck that they want to cut private education out, at least some positive will come of it. Of course, I'm biased since I'm going to be applying for the Reserves next year.

 

[Andrew111]

Oh geez. Those are the max fees they CAN charge, not WHAT they charge.

Let me guess you watch Fox news as well.

Keep spinning.
__________________

Uh, what are you talking about? Yes, the payments go straight to the school for exactly what the public school charges but why limit private colleges to much less than many public schools? And the max rate IS what the most expensive public school DOES charge.

 

[Andrew111]

1) I did not call you a liar
2) That has been no backtracking here
3) You said "Kansas" and I was under the impression you meant University of Kansas, hence the link... which apparently this is not the case and I apologize.
4) My knowledge of the GI Bill is just fine, and this has nothing to do with the fact that I do not mind a decrease in funding to the program.

You called my numbers BS and I gave you proof from the VA....if you believed my numbers were BS than you were calling me a liar.

 

[Vette73]

Uh, what are you talking about? Yes, the payments go straight to the school but enforcing a $20,000 cap in private colleges doensn't make sense when state colleges can charge whatever they want.

Yes it does make sense. State collegese have to get permission to raise their rates and their books are open the State board.

Private has many that are for profit and thats all they care about. If it was left uncapped then the U of Phoenix and other "hotel colleges" would have a field day.

As already said they are doing this so to make sure they have enough funds to support all the troops not the idiots that waste it at some crappy fly by night "Phoenix" school.

 

[Proprioceptive]

You called my numbers BS and I gave you proof from the VA....if you believed my numbers were BS than you were calling me a liar.

There is a vast difference between calling information BS and calling you a liar... and I already apologized for the misunderstanding... stop being so sensitive.

 

[Proprioceptive]

Yes it does make sense. State collegese have to get permission to raise their rates and their books are open the State board.

Private has many that are for profit and thats all they care about. If it was left uncapped then the U of Phoenix and other "hotel colleges" would have a field day.

As already said they are doing this so to make sure they have enough funds to support all the troops not the idiots that waste it at some crappy fly by night "Phoenix" school.

:thumbsup:

 

[Andrew111]

Yes it does make sense. State collegese have to get permission to raise their rates and their books are open the State board.

Private has many that are for profit and thats all they care about. If it was left uncapped then the U of Phoenix and other "hotel colleges" would have a field day.

As already said they are doing this so to make sure they have enough funds to support all the troops not the idiots that waste it at some crappy fly by night "Phoenix" school.

Marlin, the rates on the VA's website are indeed the tuition rates and fees charged by the most expensive public school in that state. It isn't conjecture...many public schools don't charge nearly that rate but some indeed charge that much in tuition and fees and are funded 100% while private colleges get the shaft. And the University of Phoenix is covered by the new GI Bill even with the cap...it is the more reputable private colleges that would be hurt by the proposed changes. All colleges must meet VA's terms/conditions to be eligible for the GI Bill...fly by night colleges will never be allowed into the GI Bill program unless the VA mistakenly lets them in.

 

[Vette73]

Marlin, the rates on the VA's website are indeed the tuition rates and fees charged by the most expensive public school in that state. It isn't conjecture...many public schools don't charge nearly that rate but some indeed charge that much in tuition and fees and are funded 100% while private colleges get the shaft.

Yea those are the fees for those that make it to the medical program or other Graduate programs that are very selective and in demand in the military.

MOST will not even come close to that level of fees.

And as already said most private schools are for profit and their books are closed. I do not want tax money going to the U of Phoenix and other "hotel colleges" that offer nothing more than a piece of paper.

 

[alkemyst]

IMHO the benefits should be tied to government / public items. Makes no sense to give money that is moved outside the system.

It's still a great benefit.

 

[lupi]

I may be flamed out of existence for this, but personally, I don't mind these cuts. Beyond our base pay, I look at every other benefit as a plus. We're a volunteer military, so I don't believe that we're entitled to most of the extra benefits we use. Don't get me wrong, I use my benefits to their maximum potential, but if cuts are necessary and help ease the burden on tax payers, I don't have any issue with it. As a soldier, I believe my pay is more than fair, especially as an officer, and I can't complain.

You're an idiot to the third degree. Conparing officer pay/benefits as being generous enough for unilateral cuts that will mostly effect the enlisted ranks is indeed true desk officer mentality.

Spend a couple years where you are away from humanity for 7 months out of the year and tell me again how the poor schmucks doing all the work are getting to much. But I guess that have to somehow recoup funds to do things like giving sub xo/cos a 6 figure retention bonus.

 

[Andrew111]

Yea those are the fees for those that make it to the medical program or other Graduate programs that are very selective and in demand in the military.

I wish I could tell you that was so but these rates are for undergraduate institutions only...the VA did not include graduate tuition/fees when determining the most expensive public school...It had to be undergraduate. I can't help but wonder which state college in Utah charges $80,000+ in fees for a term for their undergraduate program...trying to hide the true cost of college for those who only looked at the tuition rate? lol

 

[Vette73]

I wish I could tell you that was so but these rates are for undergraduate institutions only...the VA did not include graduate tuition/fees when determining the most expensive public school...It had to be undergraduate. I can't help but wonder which state college in Utah charges $80,000+ in fees for a term for their undergraduate program...trying to hide the true cost of college for those who only looked at the tuition rate? lol

I guess you missed this part...

"This information has no relationship to, and should not be compared with, average costs of tuition and fees of public institutions within any state commonly referred to when considering educational options. "
http://www.gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/tuition_and_fees.htm

 

[Vette73]

Since you don;t seem to understand how fees are calculated maybe you should have looked it up first and not made a crappy thread...

"Utah as an example"
http://www.gibill.com/blog/how-does-the-maximum-per-credit-hour-work.html

 

[Sinsear]

I may be flamed out of existence for this, but personally, I don't mind these cuts. Beyond our base pay, I look at every other benefit as a plus. We're a volunteer military, so I don't believe that we're entitled to most of the extra benefits we use. Don't get me wrong, I use my benefits to their maximum potential, but if cuts are necessary and help ease the burden on tax payers, I don't have any issue with it. As a soldier, I believe my pay is more than fair, especially as an officer, and I can't complain.

Spoken like a true officer.

 

[Golgatha]

Uh, it is NOT BS. It's taken straight from the VA's website: :http://www.gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/tuition_and_fees.htm

I recommend you know what you're talking about before you accuse me of fabricating something that is backed up by proof on my end.............

I received what I believe to be a quality education from MSU.

http://www.missouristate.edu/registrar/costs_fees.htm

Courses numbered 1-599: $186* for Missouri resident, $372 for non-Missouri resident.

On that table the limit is $373 per credit hour and they cover to a rough cap of 32 hours per year. As long as they haven't upped it, it takes a minimum of 125 credit hours to graduate, so it's very possible to graduate in 4 years with absolutely no money owed coming out from a public university (at least in the state of Missouri). Seems pretty fair to me.

 

[Andrew111]

I guess you missed this part...

"This information has no relationship to, and should not be compared with, average costs of tuition and fees of public institutions within any state commonly referred to when considering educational options. "
http://www.gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/tuition_and_fees.htm

I guess you fail to read my posts...I already acknowledged that these are the max rates and not typical. THe tuiton and fees are the most expensive for undergraduate...that gibill.com link you gave didn't even cover how they arrived at the total fees expense for Utah and does not invalidate what I said...they are the most expensive for that state for a public school undergraduate program somewhere in that state.

 

[Andrew111]

Since you don;t seem to understand how fees are calculated maybe you should have looked it up first and not made a crappy thread...

"Utah as an example"
http://www.gibill.com/blog/how-does-the-maximum-per-credit-hour-work.html

Why are you trying to argue with me on this Marlin? I've been following the GI Bill for quite some time.....tell me anywhere on that link you gave me that invalidates what I've said? You want to quote a commercial, for-profit website so I'll quote the VA slick:

Under the Post 9/11 GI Bill you may receive:

a tuition & fees payment (paid directly to the school) not to exceed the tuition & fees at the most expensive state Institution of Higher Learning (IHL)

That is straight from http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/CH33/Benefit_Comparison_Chart.htm#911amount

That link you gave doesn't say that fees are calculated in a different way. Perhaps you should read fully the links you throw out there.

 

[Proprioceptive]

You're an idiot to the third degree. Conparing officer pay/benefits as being generous enough for unilateral cuts that will mostly effect the enlisted ranks is indeed true desk officer mentality.

Spend a couple years where you are away from humanity for 7 months out of the year and tell me again how the poor schmucks doing all the work are getting to much. But I guess that have to somehow recoup funds to do things like giving sub xo/cos a 6 figure retention bonus.

Spoken like a true officer.

Let's get something straight here. I am not an officer. I see how my post may have been misleading, though. I am an E-5. I was trying to state that officers pay is even more generous compared to enlisted pay, but officer or not, I still stand by my comments.

 

[Linflas]

Personally I think they should go back to the way it was when I joined the military. Upon separation you were entitled to a monthly education stipend for 45 months of full time student status. It was not meant to cover all the costs of college, rather it provided significant help that along with a part time job or student loans would allow a Vet to get a 4 year degree or attend a trade school.

 

[sdifox]

I believe the argument is public money goes to public institution. Not a bad idea.

 

[chusteczka]

I thought it was a bad idea when the bill was accepted and I am glad to hear it will be canceled. I agree with many of the reasons already stated. Federal benefits should not be tied to "for profit" costs.

 

[lupi]

Didn't see anything in their about anything being expanded, but the cut portion is pretty substantial. Much deeper in the cuts and you start to wonder why bother passing it in the first place. I mean these guys only dodged bullets and stepped over mines for four. Or so years, that should have been enough time for them to accumulate a life's savings.

 

[OutHouse]

Yeah but the Post 9/11 GI Bill is capped at the most expensive public school. This just further locks in veterans to public schools...why? I think vet organizations may have been hoodwinked into going along with this change along the lines that CycloWizard suggests.

"Locks Vets into public schools"... umm as a vet and as a vet who used my GI Bill at a State (public) university i see no problem with it. Private schools are fucking expensive and in my opinion a waste of tax money to fund vets. just because i served doesnt mean the tax payers should pay for my tuition at Yale.

 

[Vette73]

"Locks Vets into public schools"... umm as a vet and as a vet who used my GI Bill at a State (public) university i see no problem with it. Private schools are fucking expensive and in my opinion a waste of tax money to fund vets. just because i served doesnt mean the tax payers should pay for my tuition at Yale.

Funny thing is the tution at Yale, Harvard, etc... is based on income. So even the amount the Gov pays would probable cover most if not all at a Yale or Harvard type school based on a lowwer level salary for a military member.

Now the "hotel" colleges like Uni. of Pho not so much. They charge a pile more and at best you get a nice piece of paper.