For every action, an equal and opposite overreaction

[Gonad the Barbarian]

As I said, I am done arguing about this. But just as a point of order, I think that if they are banning beverages based on calories per ounce, it should apply to all beverages, milk included.

Milk has substantial nutritional value beyond its calories.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Milk has substantial nutritional value beyond its calories.

Yes, I understand that.

But if the idea here is that people are overconsuming, then 32 ounces of milk is overconsuming as well. For whole milk, that's roughly 600 calories in one sitting, and close to an entire day's recommendation for saturated fat.

And that's regular milk. Chocolate milk? 850 calories, a day's worth of sat fat, and 100 grams of sugar.

If the idea is only to ban "non-nutritious" oversized beverages, then a more reasonable definition of "nutrition" is required, because the exceptions (and exceptions to the exceptions) in this law make it utterly idiotic.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

People generally aren't over consuming milk, except for the sugar-laden flavored kind, which probably should fall under any restrictions that target soda.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

People generally aren't over consuming milk, except for the sugar-laden flavored kind, which probably should fall under any restrictions that target soda.

Well, if they aren't overconsuming it, then there's no problem with having consistent laws.

But I'll do you one better.

I just found a Cold Stone Creamery milkshake that has 1,110 calories, 74 grams of fat, 42 grams of saturated fat (over two days' worth!) and 85 grams of sugar.

The kicker? It's 16 ounces.

 

[werepossum]

Actually research on portion sizes disagrees with your hypothesis on soda consumption.

Yet that research would give no difference between soda and milk, correct? Therefore the same should apply to milk, and the health difference between whole milk and skim milk is surely more stark than between 16 ounces or 32 ounces of soda as the former gives all the nutritional benefit AND all the volume. The same could be applied to beer, mandating light beer or even near beer, or simply prohibiting beer served in pitchers or half-priced drinks during Happy Hour. While perhaps not the same magnitude of effect in obesity as milk or soda, surely the effects of over-consumption of beer are at least as bad for society as is over-consumption of soda, especially considering the existing laws against consumption of beer when driving or in public. If government is justified in mandating maximum size for soda on grounds of fighting obesity, surely beer is at least as valid a target, offering the same or greater caloric intake plus the dangers of intoxicated driving.

Which phrase is used more often by the way, beer belly or soda belly?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

The main difference between soda and alcohol is the intent of the drinker and the ability to self-regulate. Too many people drink soda simply because they're thirsty and dare I say most people know when they've had enough alcohol far sooner than when they've had enough soda.

Really?

I'm pretty sure people routinely drink 4, 6, 12 or even more cans of beer in a single evening. I have never seen anyone do that with soda.

 

[werepossum]

Well, if they aren't overconsuming it, then there's no problem with having consistent laws.

But I'll do you one better.

I just found a Cold Stone Creamery milkshake that has 1,110 calories, 74 grams of fat, 42 grams of saturated fat (over two days' worth!) and 85 grams of sugar.

The kicker? It's 16 ounces.

Now that government knows it's okay to use drone strikes to kill Americans on American soil, I'd suggest anyone ordering one of those milkshakes does so on peril of his or her life. It is a WAR on obesity, after all.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Really?

I'm pretty sure people routinely drink 4, 6, 12 or even more cans of beer in a single evening. I have never seen anyone do that with soda.

Too much soda vs too much beer isn't necessarily a 1:1 can ratio. Nor can you compare occasional binge drinking to constant soda consumption. And you don't need math to tell you when you've hit your alcohol limit.

 

[werepossum]

Too much soda vs too much beer isn't necessarily a 1:1 can ratio. Nor can you compare occasional binge drinking to constant soda consumption. And you don't need math to tell you when you've hit your alcohol limit.

Considering the number of DUI cases, I'd suggest one needs not only math but a friend willing and able to stop you.

Charles makes a very good point. I've known several people who regularly drank a six pack or more of beer every night, including two of my neighbors. (One of whom oddly enough is rail thin.) I know of no one who drinks that much soda every night.

 

[ivwshane]

What was the point of this thread again?

And I'm asking seriously because it seems like its gone off topic.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

What was the point of this thread again?

And I'm asking seriously because it seems like its gone off topic.

Alcoholics can stay skinny and milk is the real driver of obesity.

 

[ivwshane]

Considering the number of DUI cases, I'd suggest one needs not only math but a friend willing and able to stop you.

Charles makes a very good point. I've known several people who regularly drank a six pack or more of beer every night, including two of my neighbors. (One of whom oddly enough is rail thin.) I know of no one who drinks that much soda every night.

Most people don't drink soda in one sitting like they do beer, soda is typically drank throughout the day. The problem with soda isn't that you can get drunk from it by consuming too much at one time, the problem is that over prolonged use you can have health issues as a result.

I'd liken soda to cigarettes in that they can harm you over time and in that government does directly and indirectly regulate it.

Does that mean its a good law or will help solve the issue it's trying to address? I can't say for sure.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Now that government knows it's okay to use drone strikes to kill Americans on American soil, I'd suggest anyone ordering one of those milkshakes does so on peril of his or her life. It is a WAR on obesity, after all.

If that's not enough, they have a 24-ounce version.

As long as it's half milk, the 1,750-calorie monstrosity is perfectly fine with Bloomberg, unlike the 300 calories in an equal-sized Coke.

Most people don't drink soda in one sitting like they do beer, soda is typically drank throughout the day. The problem with soda isn't that you can get drunk from it by consuming too much at one time, the problem is that over prolonged use you can have health issues as a result.

I'd liken soda to cigarettes in that they can harm you over time and in that government does directly and indirectly regulate it.

Does that mean its a good law or will help solve the issue it's trying to address? I can't say for sure.

Well, the law doesn't target people who drink soda by the can throughout the day. Only those who buy it in large cups. So I think you have, in fact, made an argument against it.

 

[fskimospy]

The smallest soda serving size available at most fast food places is 20oz. Beer is typically served in 16oz. Beer is typically drunk in 16oz or smaller servings.

If you drink soda throughout the day under this law, your average serving per incident will be at least 20% smaller. Drinking throughout the day is no argument against this regulation at all.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

The smallest soda serving size available at most fast food places is 20oz. Beer is typically served in 16oz. Beer is typically drunk in 16oz or smaller servings.

McDonald's -- small size is 16 ounces, kid size is 12 ounces.

Burger King -- same.

Wendy's -- 12 ounces.

I stopped there. This stuff is not difficult to research.

If you drink soda throughout the day under this law, your average serving per incident will be at least 20% smaller. Drinking throughout the day is no argument against this regulation at all.

Incorrect per above, as well as the more obvious point being that those who drink throughout the day are not buying most of those sodas at restaurants -- they are drinking cans or bottles from the grocery store, where Bloomberg's idiotic bill doesn't apply.

Of course, if they did want to get fountain sodas all day long, they could just go to 7-11 and get all the Big Gulps they want, since Bloomberg's idiotic bill exempts them as well. In fact, they'd be far more likely to buy sodas of any type at a corner store than at a restaurant, except one at lunch, where, again, this moronic law is not in effect.

There are actually no arguments in favor of this regulation that make even a modicum of sense.

 

[lotus503]

Yes, I understand that.

But if the idea here is that people are overconsuming, then 32 ounces of milk is overconsuming as well. For whole milk, that's roughly 600 calories in one sitting, and close to an entire day's recommendation for saturated fat.

And that's regular milk. Chocolate milk? 850 calories, a day's worth of sat fat, and 100 grams of sugar.

If the idea is only to ban "non-nutritious" oversized beverages, then a more reasonable definition of "nutrition" is required, because the exceptions (and exceptions to the exceptions) in this law make it utterly idiotic.

I drink over 80oz of chocolate milk per week, Its simply better in a lot of regards to sports drinks or post workout fuel.

Of course I also burn over 3500 calories per week cycling in the off season and near double that during fair weather.

 

[Screech]

The smallest soda serving size available at most fast food places is 20oz. Beer is typically served in 16oz. Beer is typically drunk in 16oz or smaller servings.

If you drink soda throughout the day under this law, your average serving per incident will be at least 20% smaller. Drinking throughout the day is no argument against this regulation at all.

In my experience people get a drink and then drink as much as they can with free refills regardless of how big the cup is, if they are staying at the restaurant. I suppose it might matter if you use the drive through.

But why not ban all soda alltogether? That way, your average serving per incident will be 100% smaller.

 

[fskimospy]

McDonald's -- small size is 16 ounces, kid size is 12 ounces.

Burger King -- same.

Wendy's -- 12 ounces.

I stopped there. This stuff is not difficult to research.

Sorry, you're right. I meant the smallest size that comes with any order that people actually make. Every value meal, the thing that people order by far the most often, comes with at least a 20oz drink.

This is of course the difference between researching things to try and be pedantically right, and researching things to actually understand an issue. Similarly you could also say that all these restaurants serve water, which has zero calories. That would be equally useless. The things that people buy are overwhelmingly at least 20oz.

This stuff is not difficult to research, but the most important part is wanting to actually find the answer as opposed to wanting to find a reason to support the opinion you already hold.

Incorrect per above, as well as the more obvious point being that those who drink throughout the day are not buying most of those sodas at restaurants -- they are drinking cans or bottles from the grocery store, where Bloomberg's idiotic bill doesn't apply.

Of course, if they did want to get fountain sodas all day long, they could just go to 7-11 and get all the Big Gulps they want, since Bloomberg's idiotic bill exempts them as well. In fact, they'd be far more likely to buy sodas of any type at a corner store than at a restaurant, except one at lunch, where, again, this moronic law is not in effect.

There are actually no arguments in favor of this regulation that make even a modicum of sense.

So your argument is simultaneously that this is an encroachment upon liberty and that people won't be affected by it. I'll chalk this up to another bad argument.

Just let it go, brother.

 

[ivwshane]

If that's not enough, they have a 24-ounce version.

As long as it's half milk, the 1,750-calorie monstrosity is perfectly fine with Bloomberg, unlike the 300 calories in an equal-sized Coke.



Well, the law doesn't target people who drink soda by the can throughout the day. Only those who buy it in large cups. So I think you have, in fact, made an argument against it.

I didn't make an argument for it or against it, I just explained the difference between the two items and how saying they are an apples to apples comparison is not valid.

 

[Craig234]

The size of portions served appears to have increased several times over the last decades. Sodas were reportedly 7 ounces.

 

[werepossum]

If that's not enough, they have a 24-ounce version.

As long as it's half milk, the 1,750-calorie monstrosity is perfectly fine with Bloomberg, unlike the 300 calories in an equal-sized Coke.

Well, the law doesn't target people who drink soda by the can throughout the day. Only those who buy it in large cups. So I think you have, in fact, made an argument against it.

Eliminating milkshakes entirely is probably phase 3 or 4. I think Bloomberg represents a movement by which ordinary Americans drink water and generally consume as few resources as possible, whereas the elite like Bloomberg drink whatever the hell they want and generally consume as many resources as they desire. It's the same idea that drives Algore to demand that we give up our automobiles while also having his driver idle for hours so that his limo is instantly comfortable whenever we wants it. Sadly, I think the Republican elite are more in opposition for political effect than out of principle. When one gets accustomed to wielding great power, it's probably difficult to identify with the dumb masses no matter what principles one held going in.

Most people don't drink soda in one sitting like they do beer, soda is typically drank throughout the day. The problem with soda isn't that you can get drunk from it by consuming too much at one time, the problem is that over prolonged use you can have health issues as a result.

I'd liken soda to cigarettes in that they can harm you over time and in that government does directly and indirectly regulate it.

Does that mean its a good law or will help solve the issue it's trying to address? I can't say for sure.

Actually my neighbors drink beer throughout the day when not working, and throughout the evening and night after work.

 

[fskimospy]

Also, the average American consumes almost three times as much soda yearly as beer. It is simply a far larger contributor to obesity.

Regardless, the argument is silly anyway. Saying we shouldn't do one thing to combat obesity because we aren't doing other things as well is an absurd position to hold.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I think it best if both governments shut up and leave people alone.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

So your argument is simultaneously that this is an encroachment upon liberty and that people won't be affected by it.

No, it's not. And frankly, you're starting to really piss me off.

 

[fskimospy]

No, it's not. And frankly, you're starting to really piss me off.

Don't start the weekend angry! I'm going to go eat some fondue, which always picks me up when I'm feeling down. Maybe you should too. We can get through this together.