Is this really an apples to apples comparison? I doubt you can stick a P4 on a graphics board and go play Doom 3. (well you could use a P4 and play these games in software mode, then I guess the P4 in all these races will be about as fast as my mom's caddy. Now would you call that a race???)
Is this really an apples to apples comparison? I doubt you can stick a P4 on a graphics board and go play Doom 3. (well you could use a P4 and play these games in software mode, then I guess the P4 in all these races will be about as fast as my mom's caddy. Now would you call that a race???)
How about a 6800Ultra compared to a A64 3500+
3500+ is around $350 (and its faster in games than any P4EE)
6800Ultra is around $550
The CPU has on-die memory controllers, is portable also, its the central hub of ur entire computer, without it, nothing will work. Does all the heavy work compared to the GPU, which the GPU is only doing visual, the CPU has to do background work also while playing games. the CPU is running at 2,2Ghz (the 3500+) while the 6800Ultra is only doing 400.
3500+ is around $350 (and its faster in games than any P4EE)
6800Ultra is around $550
The CPU has on-die memory controllers, is portable also, its the central hub of ur entire computer, without it, nothing will work. Does all the heavy work compared to the GPU, which the GPU is only doing visual, the CPU has to do background work also while playing games. the CPU is running at 2,2Ghz (the 3500+) while the 6800Ultra is only doing 400.
The VPU also has an on-die memory controller. You also can't function without a video card. Without it we would be back to screenless boxes of back in the day with a lot of LEDs to read the bits. The VPU does much more work than the CPU. The VPU only running at 400MHz compared to CPU running at 2.2GHz. Here's the catch. A CPU only has one pipeline. A VPU, specifically the 6800, has 16 pipelines. This means 16 x 400 = 6.4GHz right their if it was only working on one pipeline like CPUs. Don't be fooled by MHz, this term has totally lost it's value.
CPUs are flexible. They don't perform any specific type of operation. This is why everything has to be done in software. Software is much slower than Hardware, but much cheaper. If the VPU was so general, we would probably have such slow operation. That's why every generation there are new chips. There are new hardware features embedded into the chip, because doing them in software just wouldn't work performance wise.
Two totally different and unrelated in terms of pricing things.
Both are overpriced but these are worldwide market oriented related issues that need a deep analysis to be explained.
Consider this. If you think a gpu doesn't worth it's value what should you say about a cpu?
Both are overpriced but these are worldwide market oriented related issues that need a deep analysis to be explained.
Consider this. If you think a gpu doesn't worth it's value what should you say about a cpu?
The question is:
What good does those $500 video cards do?
What good does those CPUs do?
Well, I don't think I need to list all those things to compare each other.
It's just plain simple. My CPU will do everything in full time! whereas that $500 video card won't really do anything much.
For a person who's not that into FPS games, getting fast and expensive video card is pointless. However, that kind of person would still benefit from fast CPUs. Who cares about the video card having 16 pipe lines or whatever, when it only benefits FPS games?
Well, if you're one of those people who keeps and keeps playing FPS games full time, that $500 video card, of course, isn't expensive. For me, $500 video card is pointless and just expensive. I'd rather spend that money on something useful (for me).
It's just that we have different opnion based on the life style we are leading. For some, buying a $420 shoes may sound wrong, however I'm happy with that $430 shoes I just got. If you want, I can give you all those details why it is worth it, following your argument style.
What good does those $500 video cards do?
What good does those CPUs do?
Well, I don't think I need to list all those things to compare each other.
It's just plain simple. My CPU will do everything in full time! whereas that $500 video card won't really do anything much.
For a person who's not that into FPS games, getting fast and expensive video card is pointless. However, that kind of person would still benefit from fast CPUs. Who cares about the video card having 16 pipe lines or whatever, when it only benefits FPS games?
Well, if you're one of those people who keeps and keeps playing FPS games full time, that $500 video card, of course, isn't expensive. For me, $500 video card is pointless and just expensive. I'd rather spend that money on something useful (for me).
It's just that we have different opnion based on the life style we are leading. For some, buying a $420 shoes may sound wrong, however I'm happy with that $430 shoes I just got. If you want, I can give you all those details why it is worth it, following your argument style.
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
- 4
- 0
lets see, video encoding , real time 3d rendering, DVD decoding, etc. my point was with the video card you get the chip, PCB, 256mb of DDR3, and much more, for more money spent, you get only the chip with the pentium. As said above, a video card is much like a computer in itself.
If the next gen consoles stay around the $300 mark then yes, $500 is and always will be a rip off for a video card. Stop trying to justify your absurd spending habbits, unless you've got the money to burn then that's kosher.
P4EE - absurd priced/performance, $500 video card - absurd price/performance.
Heck I'd almost go to say $300 is pretty outrageous, or $200 even, but the fact that these companies actually have to make profit off their hardware...they do have to overprice them whereas consoles are generally sold for a loss and profits are made on software sales.
Oh but what am I saying?!?!, as long as there are still chumps out there willing to throw money at such products (whether they have the cash to do so or not) the companies will continue to push R&D to the max which means we'll have midrange and budget solutions that wouldn't be so attractive otherwise.
If I had excessive ammounts of money I know I'd be one to spend $500 in a blink, but I don't and choose to be wiser with my spendings.
P4EE - absurd priced/performance, $500 video card - absurd price/performance.
Heck I'd almost go to say $300 is pretty outrageous, or $200 even, but the fact that these companies actually have to make profit off their hardware...they do have to overprice them whereas consoles are generally sold for a loss and profits are made on software sales.
Oh but what am I saying?!?!, as long as there are still chumps out there willing to throw money at such products (whether they have the cash to do so or not) the companies will continue to push R&D to the max which means we'll have midrange and budget solutions that wouldn't be so attractive otherwise.
If I had excessive ammounts of money I know I'd be one to spend $500 in a blink, but I don't and choose to be wiser with my spendings.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
- 126
Of course it is too much.
For $500 US I can buy a german sheppard, which will last me 11-15 years, much longer than computer hardware. The dog will lick my face, be happy to see me every day, be anxious to play every day (without fear of overheating and artifacts), and will act as a chick magnet when you take it for a walk. And most importantly it will make you feel loved .... Now who was talking about a videocard, eh? And later on you can breed it for puppies that you can sell or keep for yourself, making it an even better investment. A dog can also protect you and will probably impress more people than a stupid videocard. But stop for a second and think, when is it that you spend $500 and you remember it? Possibly travel, well sure maybe not $500US maybe $700 but all those trips are memories for life. White water rafting, trips to mexico (cheap in the summer - all inclusive), downhill skiing at Whistler...etc. Now try to justify spending $500 on something that will be forgotten so fast you wouldnt even know it. Basically most people who wont justify spending that much on a piece of hardware wont justify it even if they started making millions. Others wont care. This question is impossible to answer. It is like asking someone if it is worth spending more money on a brand name product vs. a no-name (clothes, food, etc.), or if it's worth buying a car?
I think, a person is satisfied with the price he/she paid at a point when the amount of money paid for a product/service is equal to or less than what he/she intended to pay as a maximum in the first place. And that value is different for everyone.
For me $500 is a lot, because videocards become obsolete in 1 year, making the depreciation cost tremendous. Besides, you can get A64 3200+ ($200), good motherboard ($100), and 1gig of ram ($200) that will smoke the P4 EE at gaming and office apps. So you also do get the processor, the PCB, and 1 gig of RAM. (so this argument is invalid) Think about it though, for $500 US you can build a whole workable computer, but a $500 videocard alone is useless.
This is really not a question you can dispute because for someone who cares about gaming A LOT, $500 is not a lot on a videocard, and others will call you crazy. So to each his own. Also a videocard's performance doesnt "last" as long as the cpus, and often you end up replacing the videocard a lot more often than your cpu, making that investment even worse. But hey, you only live once, so if you start thinking about what you need and what you want, then really, 99% of the stuff you have isnt what you need.
For $500 US I can buy a german sheppard, which will last me 11-15 years, much longer than computer hardware. The dog will lick my face, be happy to see me every day, be anxious to play every day (without fear of overheating and artifacts), and will act as a chick magnet when you take it for a walk. And most importantly it will make you feel loved .... Now who was talking about a videocard, eh? And later on you can breed it for puppies that you can sell or keep for yourself, making it an even better investment. A dog can also protect you and will probably impress more people than a stupid videocard. But stop for a second and think, when is it that you spend $500 and you remember it? Possibly travel, well sure maybe not $500US maybe $700 but all those trips are memories for life. White water rafting, trips to mexico (cheap in the summer - all inclusive), downhill skiing at Whistler...etc. Now try to justify spending $500 on something that will be forgotten so fast you wouldnt even know it. Basically most people who wont justify spending that much on a piece of hardware wont justify it even if they started making millions. Others wont care. This question is impossible to answer. It is like asking someone if it is worth spending more money on a brand name product vs. a no-name (clothes, food, etc.), or if it's worth buying a car?
I think, a person is satisfied with the price he/she paid at a point when the amount of money paid for a product/service is equal to or less than what he/she intended to pay as a maximum in the first place. And that value is different for everyone.
For me $500 is a lot, because videocards become obsolete in 1 year, making the depreciation cost tremendous. Besides, you can get A64 3200+ ($200), good motherboard ($100), and 1gig of ram ($200) that will smoke the P4 EE at gaming and office apps. So you also do get the processor, the PCB, and 1 gig of RAM. (so this argument is invalid) Think about it though, for $500 US you can build a whole workable computer, but a $500 videocard alone is useless.
This is really not a question you can dispute because for someone who cares about gaming A LOT, $500 is not a lot on a videocard, and others will call you crazy. So to each his own. Also a videocard's performance doesnt "last" as long as the cpus, and often you end up replacing the videocard a lot more often than your cpu, making that investment even worse. But hey, you only live once, so if you start thinking about what you need and what you want, then really, 99% of the stuff you have isnt what you need.
Personally, I think Nvidia's re-introduction of SLI is going to be a major shakeup here in the graphics world. Think about it - take the GeForce 6600 GT as an example - by itself for $200 it matches the previous gen cards in performance, and beats them in many cases. Now, consider 12 or 18 months later when newer games are stomping it. The price on a second 6600GT will have dropped to probably $120, or so, so pick it up, and dang near double your performance for next to no money...that will last you another year or so probably....
SLI, IF (big if) it does indeed lead to a ~70-90% performance increase like Nvidia is claiming, it's going to drop the cost of having a high performance graphics setup significantly...
If ATi doesn't have an answer to Nvidia's SLI in the works already, they're going to be scrambling for one soon, otherwise they'll never be able to compete with NV's SLI setups when it comes to cost/performance....which is, after all, what the majority of gamers look at.
SLI, IF (big if) it does indeed lead to a ~70-90% performance increase like Nvidia is claiming, it's going to drop the cost of having a high performance graphics setup significantly...
If ATi doesn't have an answer to Nvidia's SLI in the works already, they're going to be scrambling for one soon, otherwise they'll never be able to compete with NV's SLI setups when it comes to cost/performance....which is, after all, what the majority of gamers look at.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
- 126
That's a promising thought. Of course since A64 doesnt support PCI-E right now, this forces you to buy P4 Prescott to have SLI as an option, right? And no one wants to buy Intel for gaming. :brokenheart:
Also dont both videocards have to run off a 16x PCI-E, and to my understanding most motherboards only have 1 16x lane, 1 4x lane and the rest are 1x lanes? hmm....not sure about this. When will SLI become available anyways?
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
- 4
- 0
I disagree somewhat. Buy a 6800 GT now for $350, keep it for a 2 years, then sell it for around $150-200, and use that money towards an NV50/R500 for $400 or so. $200 for 2 years of topnotch gaming is worthwhile IMO. The very top of the line cards are a bit expensive, but htats why you go 1 below.
Make it up by skipping that Athlon 64 and getting a mobile barton instead.
Make it up by skipping that Athlon 64 and getting a mobile barton instead.
RS, I don't know if you've ever owned a dog before, but let me tell you, they certainly do leave "artifacts".
Usually right out in your lawn where you are sure to step.
The rest of your points are "spot" on.
-D'oh!
way too much, i DO realize they are expensive to make and develop, but as some other people have stated, simply having them to play at high res and max out detail in GAMES ONLY is a total waste for most people. that being said the most I ever spent on a video card was in the neighborhood of $350 US.. and I won't go any higher than that.
Research , development , production , advertising and distributing it all costs a bundle. $500 is fair considering the crowd the product is aimed at , enthusiasts or ppl with no cash restraints.
haha...I think $500 is too much to pay for a video card...and $150 is too much to pay for a CPU 
I'm a very budget minded person...
Though, if you gave me a $500 video card, I would certainly keep it...always nice to have nice stuff..but I guess I'm happy at 1024x768 (or 800x600) on my radeon 9600pro.
I'm a very budget minded person...Though, if you gave me a $500 video card, I would certainly keep it...always nice to have nice stuff..but I guess I'm happy at 1024x768 (or 800x600) on my radeon 9600pro.
There are 3 products aimed at different cash levels , why are we even having this discussion , you get what you pay for , you pay less , you get less , you pay more you get more , that doesnt apply to gourmet food though or McDonalds
Oh, don't get me wrong - this is going to be a while down the road. If no one else, Nvidia's own Nforce line will surely carry multiple PCIE x16 - and that alone would create a market for the cards. I wouldn't be surprised if this is Nvidia's plan, but if it is, it's a stroke of very good thinking.
Additionally, I would be very surprised if we don't see an SLI competitor roll out of the ATi camp within the next 12 months or so. Even if SLI isn't really needed, I think it'll happen just because of one-upmanship....ATi doesn't want Nvidia saying "we do X better than the leading competitor", and vice versa.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 21K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter