Following up to SS

[CrossFyer]

Hi all,
long time lurker on the health/fitness but have never posted.

Last year I started lifting, it was a pretty crappy program that I did but I was a newb. In May I had shoulder surgery so I didn't lift or anything until October, which basically negated any gains I had made. Started SS in October, went from 165 to 180lbs. (6'4", so I'm still not big). Also can jump 2-3 inches higher and dunk now.

My buddy and I both have been stalling on some stuff, particularly squats and bench, so I was trying to come up with a new 3 day workout plan that we can transition into. Squats we've gotten over 200lb which seems good considering my build. Bench I'm only at like 125, shoulders are still weak/get sore plus my triceps give out pretty quickly (for reference, I had gotten bench to ~145 3x5 before surgery by doing lots of different chest exercises). Deadlift, we both have plenty of room to keep increasing. It's at maybe 150lb and still easy. Shoulder press is close to 100lb and we were at max effort doing 3x5.

Question is, now what? Here is my new idea for a split. We don't want something that takes a whole lot of time or uses lots of % calculations, just want to keep lifting consistently and eating a lot.

Sun: Legs/Shoulders
Tues: Chest/Back
Thurs: Triceps/Biceps

Exercises (bold for most important stuff, rest is flexible):
Legs - Squats, lunges, something for calves
Shoulders - standing barbell press, dumbbell front raises, dumbbell side raises
Chest - Mixing up flat bench, incline, decline (barbell or dumbbell) and fly.
Back - Deadlift, lat pulldowns, pullups, bent over dumbbell row
Triceps - close grip bench, skullcrushers
Biceps - barbell curl, reverse barbell curl (forearms right?), hammer dumbbell curl

And I'd love to work pushups and situps into this as well.

Basic questions -
1. Is that a decent split
2. Any adjustments to make or do I need to scrap that and do a legs, chest/shoulders/tris, back/bis 3 day split

Primary concern is to strengthen my "push" muscles because I'm terrible at pushups and benching. I do want to get better at pullups though, it's such a great exercise.

Thanks everybody,
CF

 

[brikis98]

Hi all,
My buddy and I both have been stalling on some stuff, particularly squats and bench, so I was trying to come up with a new 3 day workout plan that we can transition into. Squats we've gotten over 200lb which seems good considering my build. Bench I'm only at like 125, shoulders are still weak/get sore plus my triceps give out pretty quickly (for reference, I had gotten bench to ~145 3x5 before surgery by doing lots of different chest exercises). Deadlift, we both have plenty of room to keep increasing. It's at maybe 150lb and still easy. Shoulder press is close to 100lb and we were at max effort doing 3x5.

Are these numbers (such as the 200lb squat) for sets of 5 or your 1RM? In either case, your numbers are still very much in the novice category. I'm not saying this to be insulting, but simply to bring up the point that it is VERY unlikely that you are truly stalled and need to switch to a different routine to make progress. For example, check out the weightlifting standards: to be classified as a "novice", a 181lb male should be squatting 220, bench pressing 164, OH pressing 110, deadlifting 274 and power cleaning 158. Your squat and OH press numbers sounds close (assuming you listed your 5RM) but your deadlift and bench are still far off (and you didn't mention the power clean at all...). You're certainly still a long way off from the intermediate category.

Why do I bring this up? Because you should want to be on beginner programming for as long as you possibly can. The next logical stage after SS is intermediate programming where you will make progress MUCH slower (PR's once a week rather than almost every time you workout), so you want to avoid it as long as possible. How do you know you are no longer a beginner? You can't make linear gains on a daily basis. Given the numbers you listed, I doubt you are there. If you are stuck, you should try a couple things before switching programming:

1. Check your technique. If you are squatting more than you are deadlifting, this is often a sign that either your deadlift technique is wrong and/or you are not squatting to full depth. Do you actually own the SS book? Have you considered posting videos of yourself here to get feedback?

2. Deload. This is an important part of any routine, including SS. When you get stuck at some weight (can't finish all prescribed sets/reps of some exercise) for ~3 workouts in a row, drop down in weight by ~5-10% (soft deload) and work your way back up. If you get stuck again, drop the weight by ~10-20% and work your way back up.

Only if you are sure your technique is correct and you've tried deloading should you really consider moving up to intermediate programming.

 

[CrossFyer]

Thanks brikis,

Are these numbers (such as the 200lb squat) for sets of 5 or your 1RM?

They are for 3 sets of 5. The squat was actually for 95 kg, which I just looked up and is actually 209lb, so I'm sure the 220lb 1RM would be easy enough.

your deadlift and bench are still far off

Well, the deadlift is still easy and still seeing constant progress, we just started at a lower weight (bar plus fives) than we did on squat because it felt awkward at first. But we're still ramping it up fine.
OTOH, the bench press has just been tearing me up. We worked up to 130, I got 5+5+4, and then the next workout I could only lift 135 like twice. Went back down to 125, I couldn't get 3x5. Next workout, went to 115 and my arms were shaking the whole time.

Check your technique.

I think we're good there, my bench has just been getting pummelled. A lot is probably because of the surgery and my shoulders getting sore, but also my triceps are just too weak and the bench press isn't doing enough to get them stronger.

Do you actually own the SS book? Have you considered posting videos of yourself here to get feedback?

I don't own the book but have read lots of F.A.Q. about the program over the last few months and looked over the wiki too. Getting videos is too much trouble, we don't have a camera or the know-how to get all that posted. But, I do feel pretty good about technique from watching videos of Rippetoe coaching.

I reckon at this point we could just deload me on bench, deload my buddy on squat, and keep pushing up the deadlift.

What about power cleans? We started the program doing bent over rows instead, it was some modified version of SS, and ended up hating that exercise. It didn't feel like it was working the right muscle groups (technique probably sucked but we didn't have as many resources regarding that lift). So at this point we've just done a couple sets of pullups after each lift for the back work. Should we start power cleans? Any tips for those? I've never tried them or had anyone help me try them so we kinda got intimidated.

 

[brikis98]

They are for 3 sets of 5. The squat was actually for 95 kg, which I just looked up and is actually 209lb, so I'm sure the 220lb 1RM would be easy enough.

Fair enough, though that still puts you in the "novice" category in the squat (and well below it in the deadlift), so it is likely you still have a long way to go before you need to switch to intermediate programming.

Well, the deadlift is still easy and still seeing constant progress, we just started at a lower weight (bar plus fives) than we did on squat because it felt awkward at first. But we're still ramping it up fine.

Nothing wrong with taking your time to get the technique right. But if you're still working on technique, that is just another sign that you aren't ready for intermediate programming.

OTOH, the bench press has just been tearing me up. We worked up to 130, I got 5+5+4, and then the next workout I could only lift 135 like twice. Went back down to 125, I couldn't get 3x5. Next workout, went to 115 and my arms were shaking the whole time.

I think we're good there, my bench has just been getting pummelled. A lot is probably because of the surgery and my shoulders getting sore, but also my triceps are just too weak and the bench press isn't doing enough to get them stronger.

Shoulder injuries will definitely interfere with bench press, so don't sweat it about progressing slowly on it. However, definitely check your technique here too. For example, if your grip is too narrow or your elbows are in too tight to your body, you put much more work on your triceps. Finally, if you do have particularly weak triceps, it is ok to toss in some extra exercises at the end of the workout 1-2 times per week to work on that. For example, a couple sets of dips or push-ups just before heading home might be very helpful.

Getting videos is too much trouble, we don't have a camera or the know-how to get all that posted.

Obviously, it's up to you, but getting form checks can be really helpful. If you have a digital camera, it probably shoots video. Many phones do too. Uploading to youtube is pretty easy.

I reckon at this point we could just deload me on bench, deload my buddy on squat, and keep pushing up the deadlift.

Sounds like a good plan. Again, I can't emphasize enough that you should want to stay on beginner programming as long you possibly can. Once you're off of it, you make progress much slower and programming is much more complicated, making the process more of a grind.

What about power cleans? We started the program doing bent over rows instead, it was some modified version of SS, and ended up hating that exercise. It didn't feel like it was working the right muscle groups (technique probably sucked but we didn't have as many resources regarding that lift). So at this point we've just done a couple sets of pullups after each lift for the back work. Should we start power cleans? Any tips for those? I've never tried them or had anyone help me try them so we kinda got intimidated.

The idea of the power clean is that it develops power as opposed to maximal/limit strength. Whereas the deadlift is typically a slow, labouring lift, the power clean MUST be done extremely quickly. This builds explosiveness which is immensely useful in all athletic endeavors (increases vertical jump, faster sprinting, stronger throwing, etc). While rows and pull-ups are great exercises (and you can definitely keep doing them at the end of workouts, if you like), they don't train the same kind of "speed strength" as the power clean and therefore are not a great substitute.

The power clean is definitely a technically difficult lift, but it wouldn't be part of the routine & book if you couldn't learn it on your own. You can read tutorials online (such as the Stornglifts power clean tutorial), but the explanation in the SS book and DVD are hard to replace.