Following the CPU market has lost it's excitement for me

[StrangerGuy]

I'm with Hulk (the OP) on this one. The cpu segment has bean stagnate for awhile now. Ever since SB was released as far as I'm concerned. Even Intels offerings since SB haven't really wowed me. Zen may offer a breath of fresh air into the arena but I'm waiting for more benchmarks and reviews to come out. It's doubtful that Zen will even excite me though. Isn't it a chip geared more toward large enterprise markets? Like databases (whoohooo exciting!) and server type stuff......

Yup, I'm the same boat with Zen. Exciting to see, but far from a wallet opener...Unless AMD sells a 4790K equivalent for $100 which is next to impossible.

 

[realibrad]

Yup, I'm the same boat with Zen. Exciting to see, but far from a wallet opener...Unless AMD sells a 4790K equivalent for $100 which is next to impossible.

Are you just trying to say that you dont want to buy anything right now? If Zen offered a chip that offered 15-20% more perf. at the same cost of a 4790k, you would not consider that a "wallet opener"? If not, is it because you are happy with what you have, or is it because you dont think its enough of an increase?

 

[StrangerGuy]

Are you just trying to say that you dont want to buy anything right now? If Zen offered a chip that offered 15-20% more perf. at the same cost of a 4790k, you would not consider that a "wallet opener"? If not, is it because you are happy with what you have, or is it because you dont think its enough of an increase?

$330 CPU + $100 mobo + $100 DDR4 for 20% more ST performance? Yeah only if I'm high and Zen won't that amazing to begin with.

 

[poofyhairguy]

$330 CPU + $100 mobo + $100 DDR4 for 20% more ST performance? Yeah only if I'm high and Zen won't that amazing to begin with.

I am fine with that as long as the real core count increases so it feels like you are investing in a longterm platform.

 

[cbn]

It's already boring when you can build a 16c/32t 128GB monster for < $500 :
http://www.natex.us/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=S2600CP-SR0H8-128GB-12800

Or you snag a used workstation and pop dual 6c/12t Xeons in them (what I did with two HP Z800s running 2x X5675s each).

Hard to match the price/performance of those, with the provisos of older platforms, ST being less important and embarrassingly parallel workloads.

wow that's cheap.

Even the faster clocked 4C/8T and 6C/12T Sandy Bridge E5 Xeons are now cheap.

E5 1650 (Sandy Bridge 3.2 GHz /3.8 GHz 6C/12T, 15MB cache) with 6C turbo @ 3.6 Ghz for under $100 shipped
E5 1620 (Sandy Bridge 3.6 GHz /3.8 GHz 4C/8T, 10MB cache) with 4C turbo @ 3.7 Ghz for under $50 shipped

In fact, I've already decided to go the LGA 2011 Pre-built Workstation route myself this year. Icing on the Cake is that 4GB ECC RDIMMs are dirt cheap as well (plus the 1P LGA 2011 WS have eight slots making 32GB RAM possible for around $40 shipped)

 

[kwalkingcraze]

Personally, I wouldn't go anything below Core i3-2130 in terms of dollar and performance.

 

[realibrad]

$330 CPU + $100 mobo + $100 DDR4 for 20% more ST performance? Yeah only if I'm high and Zen won't that amazing to begin with.

So before your current system what did you have, and what did you spend?

 

[Doom2pro]

It may be boring now, but wait until the big CPU companies can't rely on shrinking nodes to get more performance... They will have to start getting crafty, and giants like Intel won't be able use their Fab might to shove others aside, it will be as closest to an even playing field as it has ever been.

To win after the wall is reached you will need to get smart with architectures, interposers, die stacking, high frequencies, possibly even radical new concepts like photonics.

Don't fret now Hulk, this is just the end of something old and the beginning of something new

 

[kwalkingcraze]

Problem is that they want to reduce TDP watt rating as much as possible without reducing or gaining performance. The next few years you'll only see 5% faster speed and another 50% drop in TDP rating.

 

[TheELF]

Problem is that they want to reduce TDP watt rating as much as possible without reducing or gaining performance. The next few years you'll only see 5% faster speed and another 50% drop in TDP rating.

That's not a problem,that's what we need* so that every and any device in our home can have a desktop CPU inside it resolve the networking issues and you end up with your own little rendering cloud.
internet of things

*well this and heavily reduced prices

 

[StrangerGuy]

So before your current system what did you have, and what did you spend?

Yeah, maybe after I think about why I should be obliged to answer just because some random guy Internet asked.

 

[Nereus77]

I'm not sure how you can be bored with the CPU market when we are about to have a showdown between AMD and Intel. Intel have been stagnant for a few years now and AMD is about to catch them up real quick. At this point I cannot tell whether the fastest CPU of the year will come from AMD or Intel, which is terrific.

 

[realibrad]

Yeah, maybe after I think about why I should be obliged to answer just because some random guy Internet asked.

Well its a tech forum so you are not. I would bet that your system before the current one you now have gave you less than a 20% cpu upgrade and Im sure you spend far less than $100.

Honestly, I'm trying to figure out your point. You seem to expect quite a lot from AMD and I am not sure why. You posted it, so I'm assuming you expected people to read it.

 

[RichUK]

I'm not sure how you can be bored with the CPU market when we are about to have a showdown between AMD and Intel. Intel have been stagnant for a few years now and AMD is about to catch them up real quick. At this point I cannot tell whether the fastest CPU of the year will come from AMD or Intel, which is terrific.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Doom2pro]

I have heard AM4 motherboards should be cheaper due to most of the chipset stuff being in the CPU and less complex traces due to less memory channels and PCI lanes... Regardless I'm budgeting $200 for whatever motherboard that will get me when Ryzen launches.

My wallet is open, arms reaching out, strangling AMD and smacking them in the face shouting TAKE MY MONEY!

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Problem is that they want to reduce TDP watt rating as much as possible without reducing or gaining performance. The next few years you'll only see 5% faster speed and another 50% drop in TDP rating.

Exactly like the crap they're pulling in smartphones with battery life.
Who gives a damn that it is 1-2mm thinner?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Things might get a bit exciting again with Zen's release. But gone are the days where AMD and Intel would one-up one another, releasing faster versions of CPU's constantly. Things were pretty exciting until 2006-07 or so.

 

[bbhaag]

You guys seem to have more faith in AMD then I do. A "showdown between AMD and Intel" is not likely to happen. You guys do realize that AMDs history over the past decade has been pretty poor. Most of their launches have been advertising hype followed by disappointment when the product launches especially when it comes to their cpus.

 

[Nereus77]

You guys seem to have more faith in AMD then I do. A "showdown between AMD and Intel" is not likely to happen. You guys do realize that AMDs history over the past decade has been pretty poor. Most of their launches have been advertising hype followed by disappointment when the product launches especially when it comes to their cpus.

Do you realise AMD's history with Jim Keller designed CPU architectures is pretty amazing? All insider info and rumours coming out of AMD regarding this particular generation point to an exciting CPU. Certainly the most exciting since Sandy Bridge.

 

[StinkyPinky]

The excitement these days seems to be in the smartphone market. Apple make some pretty amazing CPU's it has to be said. I don't really like their iphones and I loathe their business practices, but the A9 and A10 are fantastic cpus.

We're also seeing some amazingly low power draw from laptop class cpu's also. I think some people forget how terrible battery life was in laptops just ten years ago. 2 hours was quite normal. I get a good three times that on my current laptop.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, some of the 15 watt U Kaby Lake chips are quite nice. Finally getting clockspeeds to nice levels and hopefully wont throttle too badly. But I dont consider anything now "exciting". Depends on how you define it I guess, I dont really consider Zen exciting. It seems so far that it will be competitive, and may offer more cores at a lower price, but I think the chances are slim to none that it will break any new performance ground.

 

[zinfamous]

You guys seem to have more faith in AMD then I do. A "showdown between AMD and Intel" is not likely to happen. You guys do realize that AMDs history over the past decade has been pretty poor. Most of their launches have been advertising hype followed by disappointment when the product launches especially when it comes to their cpus.

What you say about the last ten years of AMD is very much true, but those were very different people at AMD. Zen is Keller's baby, Vega is doing very different things with uarch that, frankly, Nvidia will not be able to address until Volta is released a year later. Sure, AMD is late to the performance party, but it looks like they are (somewhat through dumb luck and laziness of their competitors), in a strange position to be about 1-2 years ahead of those guys in terms of design.

Obviously, we need to see real data from multiple people, but the marketing of Zen and Vega has already been quite a bit different than AMD of the recent past. They are being a bit more upfront and granting access to their testing. If the rumors about shakeups within Intel on top of the "place-holder" roadmap involving Coffee Lake and, to some degree, the brand new KabyLake are true, this could turn out to be one of those Athlon or Athlon64 moments for AMD. I don't expect Intel to be playing catchup, really, but I expect something very intriguing from AMD now, as Zen is their map for the next 3+ years and the initial release already looks quite promising.

 

[Arachnotronic]

What you say about the last ten years of AMD is very much true, but those were very different people at AMD.

That's honestly what people always say when AMD is on the eve of new product launches.

Zen is Keller's baby,

Interesting that he didn't even bother to stick around for its birth. He left before any products based on the core taped out.

Vega is doing very different things with uarch that, frankly, Nvidia will not be able to address until Volta is released a year later.

Like what? Also don't forget, Pascal has been on the market for nearly a year (including the HBM2-packing GP100 for datacenter) while Vega is still a product that AMD plans to tease/preview at CES.

Sure, AMD is late to the performance party, but it looks like they are (somewhat through dumb luck and laziness of their competitors), in a strange position to be about 1-2 years ahead of those guys in terms of design.

How on earth can you conclude any of this? Laziness of NVIDIA and Intel? Ahead of both of them? These are assertions that require proof.

Obviously, we need to see real data from multiple people, but the marketing of Zen and Vega has already been quite a bit different than AMD of the recent past. They are being a bit more upfront and granting access to their testing.

I must have missed the previews of Zen sanctioned by AMD, published by independent tech review sites. Could you link please?

If the rumors about shakeups within Intel on top of the "place-holder" roadmap involving Coffee Lake and, to some degree, the brand new KabyLake are true, this could turn out to be one of those Athlon or Athlon64 moments for AMD. I don't expect Intel to be playing catchup, really, but I expect something very intriguing from AMD now, as Zen is their map for the next 3+ years and the initial release already looks quite promising.

Those rumors don't even make any sense. Kaby Lake is available now and it is the fastest gaming CPU on the planet. Broadwell-E has been available in 6, 8, and 10 core configs since May of 2016, and we will soon see Skylake-X which will have up to 10 cores, a new PCH, 14nm+ process, and additional L2$ over SKL/KBL mainstream which ought to help in a number of workloads like gaming. Coming around the same time as Zen.

For good measure, Intel is even throwing in a Kaby Lake-X for the HEDT platform which will probably clock like a banshee, come with a soldered IHS, and give people more reason than ever to choose HEDT.

Seriously, Intel looks like it is in a strong position. Its Kaby Lake SoCs will mainly be competing against Bristol Ridge, and in HEDT Intel has Broadwell-E today (up to 10 cores) and Skylake-X coming not too long after Zen, also packing up to 10 cores, and a bunch of other improvements.

AMD is building better products than it previously had (that's what you're supposed to do), but to assert that Intel has just been sitting there doing nothing when it is the company that has been consistently delivering new products to the enthusiast market while AMD continued to sell 2012 FX chips just doesn't make any sense.

 

[raghu78]

That's honestly what people always say when AMD is on the eve of new product launches.

Zen and Vega are new architectures the likes of which we have not seen from AMD for over 5 years. AMD screwed up with Bulldozer and suffered for half a decade. But the signs with Zen are promising. AMD seems to have got their design right. I would say guarded optimism is the right mindset with regards to AMD. AMD have to prove over the next decade that they can continue to compete with its much larger and financially stronger competitors .

Interesting that he didn't even bother to stick around for its birth. He left before any products based on the core taped out.

He was brought in with a goal to design Zen and K12. He accomplished his goal (atleast wrt Zen) and left. In fact he even said that they were working on Zen successors in parallel. His job was to lead the team and to come up with a strong and efficient design. He left when pretty much the designs were done and the Zen chip was close to tapeout.

Those rumors don't even make any sense. Kaby Lake is available now and it is the fastest gaming CPU on the planet. Broadwell-E has been available in 6, 8, and 10 core configs since May of 2016, and we will soon see Skylake-X which will have up to 10 cores, a new PCH, 14nm+ process, and additional L2$ over SKL/KBL mainstream which ought to help in a number of workloads like gaming. Coming around the same time as Zen.

For good measure, Intel is even throwing in a Kaby Lake-X for the HEDT platform which will probably clock like a banshee, come with a soldered IHS, and give people more reason than ever to choose HEDT.

Seriously, Intel looks like it is in a strong position. Its Kaby Lake SoCs will mainly be competing against Bristol Ridge, and in HEDT Intel has Broadwell-E today (up to 10 cores) and Skylake-X coming not too long after Zen, also packing up to 10 cores, and a bunch of other improvements.

AMD is building better products than it previously had (that's what you're supposed to do), but to assert that Intel has just been sitting there doing nothing when it is the company that has been consistently delivering new products to the enthusiast market while AMD continued to sell 2012 FX chips just doesn't make any sense.

You have probably not read the less than enthusiastic reviews of Kabylake. Many sites have called it a disappointment.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/01/intel-core-i7-7700k-kaby-lake-review/
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/12/09/intel_kaby_lake_core_i77700k_ipc_review/6#.WG017VMrJaQ

This is probably the first time in a more than half a decade that we are seeing IPC improvements come to a halt. Even with Tick-Tock the tick brought small IPC improvements on a brand new process. Intel's Coffee Lake and CannonLake too do not seem to have a significant IPC improvement. The next generation from Intel with a significant IPC improvement is probably going to come only by late 2019. AMD are making a return to enthusiast desktops with Zen and have successors being developed. I would not be surprised to see Zen+ in 2018 and future versions keep improving. Intel looks very strong today but their roadmap is not very strong at this point in time. Intel might have given AMD a golden opportunity to catch up and even overtake in the 2017-2019 time frame.

 

[Nereus77]

This is probably the first time in a more than half a decade that we are seeing IPC improvements come to a halt. Even with Tick-Tock the tick brought small IPC improvements on a brand new process. Intel's Coffee Lake and CannonLake too do not seem to have a significant IPC improvement. The next generation from Intel with a significant IPC improvement is probably going to come only by late 2019. AMD are making a return to enthusiast desktops with Zen and have successors being developed. I would not be surprised to see Zen+ in 2018 and future versions keep improving. Intel looks very strong today but their roadmap is not very strong at this point in time. Intel might have given AMD a golden opportunity to catch up and even overtake in the 2017-2019 time frame.

I think Zen+ might be more suprising than Zen....