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Flu vaccine not as effective as some laymen thought

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I do think strongly that vaccines are more good than bad, however I also think they are not as safe as we are being led to believe. A few years ago 15 year old girl in California developed a relentlessly progressive autoimmune disorder that killed her, her symptoms began 2 months after getting the final HPV vaccine. Her condition is 1 in millions. How strange for it to happen right after vaccination.
 
I think we should expose all these anti-vaccine people and expose their kids to polio.

We'll see real quick how much they want those vaccine.
 
DCal430 said:
I do think strongly that vaccines are more good than bad, however I also think they are not as safe as we are being led to believe. A few years ago 15 year old girl in California developed a relentlessly progressive autoimmune disorder that killed her, her symptoms began 2 months after getting the final HPV vaccine. Her condition is 1 in millions. How strange for it to happen right after vaccination.
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Correlation != causation.

2 months is also 'not right after'.
 
We do not know the long term effects on humans or their offspring of these vaccines yet the so-called medical experts are recommending people take their drugs. In fact, they are strongly recommending it. What about recommending people live healthy lives so they don't need to invent a cookie cutter method for supposedly fighting off the flu. But that is too old fashioned and won't help the medical field. We need a magic pill to protect us.
 
Texashiker said:
Then I am an asshole.

If you are worried about the flu, then you get the shot.
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The problem is - if you get the flu, while you will most likely be fine and recover, you will most certainly spread it to other people. And they will spread it to another, and somewhere down the line someone with a compromised immune system will likely get it, maybe even a baby.

Why be a willing link in a chain that can usually be stopped? It's a pretty fucking selfish position to take when the shot is harmless.
 
raildogg said:
What about recommending people live healthy lives so they don't need to invent a cookie cutter method for supposedly fighting off the flu. But that is too old fashioned and won't help the medical field. We need a magic pill to protect us.
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Tell that to the healthy teenager and his family who is now on a heart-lung bypass machine at my local children's hospital because of influenza.
 
raildogg said:
We do not know the long term effects on humans or their offspring of these vaccines yet the so-called medical experts are recommending people take their drugs. In fact, they are strongly recommending it. What about recommending people live healthy lives so they don't need to invent a cookie cutter method for supposedly fighting off the flu. But that is too old fashioned and won't help the medical field. We need a magic pill to protect us.
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Oh please. The smallpox vaccine was discovered/invented in 1796. Yes, that second digit is a seven. Vaccines have been around for over 200 years. Your post is little more than fear-mongering drivel based on zero facts.

If you come down with cancer, diabetes, or any one of the myriad of afflictions that affect mankind, promise us that you'll tell the doctor "I'm not taking your damn pills. This so-called modern medicine business - it's just to help you in the medical field make money."
 
Live in one of the first states that went 'red' in terms of flu infection this season. So far it hasn't invaded the workplace (~130 people in my office) where we got free flu shots a couple of months ago.

One of the brilliant people who didn't get the shot "because they don't help anyway" had to take off a week because she got... the flu. 🙄

Completely anecdotal, of course, but with so many people in our office I'd expect to see more people out sick if there wasn't some tangible effect.
 
DCal430 said:
I do think strongly that vaccines are more good than bad, however I also think they are not as safe as we are being led to believe. A few years ago 15 year old girl in California developed a relentlessly progressive autoimmune disorder that killed her, her symptoms began 2 months after getting the final HPV vaccine. Her condition is 1 in millions. How strange for it to happen right after vaccination.
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Well the flu vaccine is over-hyped for sure. 9 times out of 10 the CDC will probably guess the wrong flu type for the vaccine. This year they did a good job however. But there only a few strains in the vaccine and who knows how many variants in the wild.

Plus there is some nasty stuff in the vaccine itself. Although the CDC swears up and down that stuff like mercury is in such small quantities it will not harm you. And there is a lot of stuff that could cause allergic reactions.

So who knows. I still got my shot... but think standard practices help keep the flu away... hand sanitizer, wash hands, don't touch your face, etc.
 
rudder said:
9 times out of 10 the CDC will probably guess the wrong flu type for the vaccine
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Link? Or is that also 10 times out of 4 times, statistics are just pulled out of thin air?

rudder said:
Plus there is some nasty stuff in the vaccine itself. Although the CDC swears up and down that stuff like mercury is in such small quantities it will not harm you. And there is a lot of stuff that could cause allergic reactions.
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Thimerosal was not mercury in the same form as the damaging variety found in tuna. The form that the mercury is in passes through your body very quickly. It's all about what chemical form stuff is in. Some forms, it can be very toxic because it lingers in your body and other forms are almost harmless because the half-life in your body is so short.
 
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rudder said:
9 times out of 10 the CDC will probably guess the wrong flu type for the vaccine. This year they did a good job however. But there only a few strains in the vaccine and who knows how many variants in the wild.
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False. In the last 22 years, 18 years have been good matches between the vaccine and the circulating strains (see the CDC website). There are typically 2-3 strains that circulate during a season, and this year is no different. The most frequent strain this year is an H3 strain.

rudder said:
Plus there is some nasty stuff in the vaccine itself. Although the CDC swears up and down that stuff like mercury is in such small quantities it will not harm you.
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The form of mercury in multi-dose vaccines cannot even be processed by the human body into an "active" or toxic form of mercury. There have been multiple studies and there is absolutely no connection between the preservatives in the influenza vaccine and "mercury toxicity."

Do you even know how mercury toxicity presents itself? Its not Autism.

In fact, some physicians feel it was a disservice that the FDA took out thimersol (which breaks down into ethylmercury, not methylmercury) from vaccines, because it gave credence to bad opinions like yours, despite the fact that the science didn't support it.

rudder said:
And there is a lot of stuff that could cause allergic reactions.
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The primary allergens are gelatin and egg allergy (the vaccines are made in eggs). Other than that, those are the primary allergens. Another BS claim.
 
Well I used to be anti-vaccine. Had one flu shot as a young adult and got sick as hell....never had another one for nearly 20 years and almost never got sick. Then all of a sudden I got the flu like three times in two years, and one of those times was really bad. Started taking the flu shot a few years ago....and so far so good.
 
It's all good the OP is getting older, the need for both the flu and pneumonia vaccines become more needed to help prevent a debilitating and/or catastrophic illness.

My company/insurance pays 100% for both annually so I get them as I feel it's a better safe than sorry type of thing.
 
So, in summary
Anti-vaccine users provided lots of "data" - in every case, the data was refuted & it turns out that they were making up what they stated.

Weird, huh?
 
DrPizza said:
So, in summary
Anti-vaccine users provided lots of "data" - in every case, the data was refuted & it turns out that they were making up what they stated.

Weird, huh?
Click to expand...
Totally. We need Jenny McCarthy in here ASAP, to set us all straight.

For a seasonal vaccine, like for a flu, a small number of people are at as much of a risk of getting seriously sick from something else while their body 'processes' the vaccine (I'm sure there's domain-specific term for that). It happens. But, I know a few health care workers in the area who previously did not get the vaccine for that reason, also being one of those regular people that's been recommended against it by MDs. But, this year? They're giving preferential scheduling to those people, so that they can take sick time off after getting the shot. I think that's pretty fair accommodation.
 
I don't know about this. Every year I got the flu until this year. The flu shot (military-injected) has worked well. My wife has the flu, bunch of co-workers, classmates, neighbor, and parents, but not me. Not one single sniffle or a drop of a runny nose.
 
So I've been arguing about this (and other vaccines) for a while now and each time I get thrown some asinine article in my face. Each time I read the article it mentions data and each time I look up that date it is either written by some joke who also refers to "data", is not data in any form of fashion, or is referencing the 1998 Andrew Wakefield MMR vaccine hoax. I have tried to explain to my friends what an actual scientific paper looks like but they don't get it. Any crackpot who writes an article supporting their view is "evidence". Everyone else is wrong.

I have beat my head into a wall trying to show people that their belief that vaccines are worthless is based on a conspiracy theory but like every other conspiracy theory they keep on believing. They believe that the media, pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and governments around the world are in on this or "just don't know the truth". You just can't fix stupid apparently.

This was the first time I've honestly considered ending a friendship because of sheer stupidity. How can I possibly look someone in the face and respect them when they are missing that part of the brain that makes logical conclusions? Then I calm down and remember that I am friends with religious people. However the big difference between believing in mythology and not vaccinating your kids is that one can kill your kids.
 
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