Florida: Students may be required to take Spanish

[Duckzilla]

I'd say bullshit if they are forced to learn Spanish. Keep us informed, I'm ready to start a campaign. That?s BS.

Anyone here ever play Postal?

 

[kage69]

Que el infierno?! :|


Seriously, I'm for it. I'm concerned about where America is going to be in R&D 25yrs from now. Higher education should automatically include at least one foreign language. Hell, enforce this and bump school days up to 250 while we're at it.


Now, about those teachers...

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
My kid is 13mo old and has been attending a Spanish immersion school since February.

A foreign language (ANY language) should be required course of study for young children. It's good for the noggin'.

You may think it's good for your kid, but is it something that should be mandated by the government for public shools. No, not when the public school system doesn't address it's major current failures.

Apparently you understand neither child development nor education. The exposure to multiple languages during early development is PROVEN to produce changes in the brain. If you just limit yourself to searches involving the NIH, you will find multiple reports on the benefits of early language diversity.

Naturally, I THINK it's good for my kid b/c it's good for ALL kids . . . just like reading, writing, and arithmetic. Most of the public school systems "failures" evolve from poor parenting. Sure some teachers and administrators sux but the majority love their work and definitely care far more about the children than the typical wank that complains about the public schools.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
My kid is 13mo old and has been attending a Spanish immersion school since February.

A foreign language (ANY language) should be required course of study for young children. It's good for the noggin'.

You may think it's good for your kid, but is it something that should be mandated by the government for public shools. No, not when the public school system doesn't address it's major current failures.

Apparently you understand neither child development nor education. The exposure to multiple languages during early development is PROVEN to produce changes in the brain. If you just limit yourself to searches involving the NIH, you will find multiple reports on the benefits of early language diversity.

Naturally, I THINK it's good for my kid b/c it's good for ALL kids . . . just like reading, writing, and arithmetic. Most of the public school systems "failures" evolve from poor parenting. Sure some teachers and administrators sux but the majority love their work and definitely care far more about the children than the typical wank that complains about the public schools.

:roll: And obviously you don't understand that our current public school has problems. I don't care what you think is good for kids - it doesn't matter one bit. This is about the state forcing a school to teach kids a different language, when they have problems with the main one.

Yes, parents suck, but that doesn't change anything. Parents are always going to suck - it's just the way society has gone, it's allowed them to suck. But that has nothing to do with the Government forcing kids to learn Spanish. And it doesn't mean that the school system doesn't have problems. They have many problems, some due to parents, but many due to it's very structure and history.

No state will ever force my child to learn Spanish. You see, it's not about "development" of what you think is good for kids, it's about the state(Government) mandating it. They should try getting English right first and foremost as that is why they are there. English, Math, and Science.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: zendari
Non english speaking people should not be allowed to immigrate into this country.

It's already impossible to make an order half the time at our local Taco Bell.

I don't agree, but if you do immigrate, you should attempt to join our society by learning ENGLISH. But that isn't what this thread is about.

No, but it is related.

It isn't our job to respond to Hispanic languages and needs.

If they come into our country, it's their job to respond to ours.

I took Spanish for 4 years. Hated it, and now I don't remember a thing.

Mark this day down, it is extremely rare for Zen and I to agree on something.

In fact this may be a first. :shocked:

So Zen, both Republicans and Democrats are for turning the U.S. into Hispanol as the Official language, that leaves only me for you vote for.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Requiring a foreign language as part of a school curriculum is not a bad idea...mandating that the second language be spanish is utterly ridiculous...French, German, Japanese, Chinese and other languages would prove just as useful.

While there is no official language in America, the last time I checked, English has been the dominant language since the nation's inception...every other immigrant group that has come to this country managed to learn english...one of the motivating factors behind discrimination and stereotypes against hispanics is that, unlike their predecessors, they are not integrating into our society because they have safety in numbers...not to mention, a culturally split society with no common ground was one of the dynamics that resulted in the demise and split of the Roman Empire.

 

[piasabird]

Lots of school districts, even in Illinois require one year or more of a foreign language to graduate. I took two years of Italian, but I went to school in Italy. I was in Italy, because my father was assigned to the US Embassy in Rome, when he was an OSI Special Agent, in the Air Force. I enjoyed learning a foreign language. It broadens your horizons and helps you to learn about another culture.

What is wrong with a foreign language requirement?

Many Colleges want to see 2 or 3 years of foreign language requirement, some Music training, and activities in civic groups outside of the classroom.

I will not fall for this stupid one language ignorance hill-billy state attitude.

It makes sense to require spanish, because it makes people more employable. In many states with a high population of spanish speaking people, knowing how to speak spanish is an advantage over other people who can not speak the language when it comes to seeking employment. It is a fact of life.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I cannot bring myself to quote Starbuck but his 1st paragraph is actually reasonable.

For the record, I (yes me personally) taught Science, Math, and Social Studies in a public school before going to medical school. I served as chair of the Science Department and the union rep (NEA).

My wife has been an elementary school teacher for 8 years including the past 4 as the Lead Teacher . . . basically she teaches the other teachers how to do their jobs . . . better. In fact her elementary school was rated a "School of Distinction" for their progress from 2001-2002, 2002-2003, and 2003-2004 . . . despite the fact it's 60% black, 30% Hispanic, and a Title I school (low SES).

Grey is right about one thing . . . our nation is truly in trouble considering it's possible to know some English and Spanish but sound like an idiot in both (Arbusto).

Mandatory language education is an excellent idea but it should be up to the locals to pick the language(s). I could see MN or WI pick French while southern border states pick Spanish and maybe PA or OH picks German.

 

[imported_tss4]

I guess I'm suprised by just how vehemently SOG is against this. There are several elementary schools near where I live that teach in a different language. They're pretty neat. They start by teaching the second langauge right along side of english for the first couple of years. After about 2nd grade, they teach everything in the second laguage except for english class. Their standardized testing scores are still excellent. I guess I just see it as an opportunity. Having a second language doesn't guarantee success, but it gives you more opportunities. And the best way to learn is at an early age. Don't most Europeans schools teach a second language? And they routinely beat us in test scores for math and science. So, I don't really see how one negates the other. I would whole heartedly agree that there are some stupid things taught in school that waste out time (home economics, anyone?), but I don't see a second language as one of them.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I cannot bring myself to quote Starbuck but his 1st paragraph is actually reasonable.

What, do I have a reputation for being unreasonable 😕

Don't most Europeans schools teach a second language?

Yes, and ironically, a common second language for most Europeans to learn is English.

Again, I don't think anyone is debating the merits of learning a second language...when I have kids, I intend for them to pick up a second language...but mandating Spanish just because there happens to be a growing number of Spanish speakers in this country is silly.

Then again I kind of wish I did understand Spanish...those Mexican soap operas on Telemundo are comedy gold, and that's without understanding what they are saying.😀

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: ahurtt
It is one thing to require a certain number of hours studying foreign languages but they should not force students to have that language be Spanish. Granted, with the growing percentage of the US population which is Spanish speaking it certainly can't hurt. But if they are going to do this for native English speakers, they should require native Spanish speakers to study English as well.

QFT

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: tss4
I guess I'm suprised by just how vehemently SOG is against this. There are several elementary schools near where I live that teach in a different language. They're pretty neat. They start by teaching the second langauge right along side of english for the first couple of years. After about 2nd grade, they teach everything in the second laguage except for english class. Their standardized testing scores are still excellent. I guess I just see it as an opportunity. Having a second language doesn't guarantee success, but it gives you more opportunities. And the best way to learn is at an early age. Don't most Europeans schools teach a second language? And they routinely beat us in test scores for math and science. So, I don't really see how one negates the other. I would whole heartedly agree that there are some stupid things taught in school that waste out time (home economics, anyone?), but I don't see a second language as one of them.

We aren't Europe. However, my position is not against allowing kids to learn a second language, or the supposed effects it has on intelligence. This is about the state FORCING kids to learn it. The school's job is to teach English, Math, and Science. They should make sure they are doing an Excellent job of doing that before taking more of the already(allegedly) stretched resources(good teachers, $, and time) to teach this other language.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
We aren't Europe. However, my position is not against allowing kids to learn a second language, or the supposed effects it has on intelligence. This is about the state FORCING kids to learn it. The school's job is to teach English, Math, and Science. They should make sure they are doing an Excellent job of doing that before taking more of the already(allegedly) stretched resources(good teachers, $, and time) to teach this other language.

When it comes down to it though, your reasoning is sort of arbitrary. I could say that, well, learning English is the most important thing for kids to learn. Then I could say that schools aren't doing a good enough job teaching English, so don't teach math or science until they can teach English properly.

It comes down to a personal opinion, not a clear cut case of intrinsic priority. If people determine that learning a foreign language is necessary, and learning Spanish particularly, then it will simply be added to the curriculum whether you like it or not. When something is considered necessary it doesn't matter that not everything is being taught properly. All things that are considered necessary must be taught in parallel, not taught on a basis of priority.

That's why English, math, science and social studies are taught in parallel. They are all considered necessary. The only debate is whether Spanish or any other foreign language is as necessary as any of those things.

However, you haven't been arguing that point, you have been arguing a different, spurious point.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
We aren't Europe. However, my position is not against allowing kids to learn a second language, or the supposed effects it has on intelligence. This is about the state FORCING kids to learn it. The school's job is to teach English, Math, and Science. They should make sure they are doing an Excellent job of doing that before taking more of the already(allegedly) stretched resources(good teachers, $, and time) to teach this other language.

When it comes down to it though, your reasoning is sort of arbitrary. I could say that, well, learning English is the most important thing for kids to learn. Then I could say that schools aren't doing a good enough job teaching English, so don't teach math or science until they can teach English properly.

It comes down to a personal opinion, not a clear cut case of intrinsic priority. If people determine that learning a foreign language is necessary, and learning Spanish particularly, then it will simply be added to the curriculum whether you like it or not. When something is considered necessary it doesn't matter that not everything is being taught properly. All things that are considered necessary must be taught in parallel, not taught on a basis of priority.

That's why English, math, science and social studies are taught in parallel. They are all considered necessary. The only debate is whether Spanish or any other foreign language is as necessary as any of those things.

However, you haven't been arguing that point, you have been arguing a different, spurious point.

No, I have been arguing that in conjuction with the resources it will use(which people love to whine are running short)

It's quite clear that a foreign language isn't as necessary as English, Math, and Science and that the focus of our public shools is and should be on those 3 areas.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: tss4
I guess I'm suprised by just how vehemently SOG is against this. There are several elementary schools near where I live that teach in a different language. They're pretty neat. They start by teaching the second langauge right along side of english for the first couple of years. After about 2nd grade, they teach everything in the second laguage except for english class. Their standardized testing scores are still excellent. I guess I just see it as an opportunity. Having a second language doesn't guarantee success, but it gives you more opportunities. And the best way to learn is at an early age. Don't most Europeans schools teach a second language? And they routinely beat us in test scores for math and science. So, I don't really see how one negates the other. I would whole heartedly agree that there are some stupid things taught in school that waste out time (home economics, anyone?), but I don't see a second language as one of them.

We aren't Europe. However, my position is not against allowing kids to learn a second language, or the supposed effects it has on intelligence. This is about the state FORCING kids to learn it. The school's job is to teach English, Math, and Science. They should make sure they are doing an Excellent job of doing that before taking more of the already(allegedly) stretched resources(good teachers, $, and time) to teach this other language.

No we're not Europe. All I was saying is that they do it and have higher test scores. It was my second example showing that a second langauge has no negative correlation (and possibly has a positive correlation) with learning other subjects. English, Math and Science are certainly the most important subjects. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but I feel in a world that is becoming increasingly globalized, being able to effectively communicate with more of the worlds potential customers, is a good skill.

You know, I guess I'm coming at it more from the perspective of a good student. A good student will put in the time and do well in his/her core subjects. Getting a second language at such an early age will only help him. I just feel that most of the responsibility for poor performance in schools is the parent's fault and why should my children miss out on a second language because other people can't get their kids to pay attention in school. I think that if my kids do bad in school, its my fault. I feel its a matter of personal responsibility and I don't think its right to always point the finger at others and blame them for my kids doing badly.

However, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. I guess it can be optional, but honestly, skipping it seems like the lazy route to me.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
It's quite clear that a foreign language isn't as necessary as English, Math, and Science and that the focus of our public shools is and should be on those 3 areas.

It is not so clear. That is what the debate should be over.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
We aren't Europe. However, my position is not against allowing kids to learn a second language, or the supposed effects it has on intelligence. This is about the state FORCING kids to learn it. The school's job is to teach English, Math, and Science. They should make sure they are doing an Excellent job of doing that before taking more of the already(allegedly) stretched resources(good teachers, $, and time) to teach this other language.

When it comes down to it though, your reasoning is sort of arbitrary. I could say that, well, learning English is the most important thing for kids to learn. Then I could say that schools aren't doing a good enough job teaching English, so don't teach math or science until they can teach English properly.

It comes down to a personal opinion, not a clear cut case of intrinsic priority. If people determine that learning a foreign language is necessary, and learning Spanish particularly, then it will simply be added to the curriculum whether you like it or not. When something is considered necessary it doesn't matter that not everything is being taught properly. All things that are considered necessary must be taught in parallel, not taught on a basis of priority.

That's why English, math, science and social studies are taught in parallel. They are all considered necessary. The only debate is whether Spanish or any other foreign language is as necessary as any of those things.

However, you haven't been arguing that point, you have been arguing a different, spurious point.

No, I have been arguing that in conjuction with the resources it will use(which people love to whine are running short)

It's quite clear that a foreign language isn't as necessary as English, Math, and Science and that the focus of our public shools is and should be on those 3 areas.

I really don't think its a function of resources. Some of our best funded schools are the crappiest and some of our more modestly funded schools perform the best. We throw obscene amounts of money at programs that get little results. This would require modest investments and have a very real and tangible benefit to every child.

The only way to get better at writing is to write. And for math, its to do math problems. I can use a $1000 computer to do this, or I can use a few cents worth of paper. My point, is that we waste huge amounts of money in ways that aren't neccesarily better for students.

 

[judasmachine]

I think it will be handy, especially in florida, texas, new mexico, arizona, and california. The former Mexican/Spanish properties are reverting to their former owners anyway. Do I agree with government madating it? No. Do I think it could be good for the students and in their professional lives later on? Absolutely!

 

[Starbuck1975]

The former Mexican/Spanish properties are reverting to their former owners anyway.

The only reason those cultures in Central and South America speak Spanish is because Spain conquered those regions, nearly eradicating the indingenous cultures living there at the time.

Those living in Central and South America are a mix of the natives to the region, their Spanish conquerors and the African slaves they brought over...the ruling and elite class of Central and South America are relatively light skinned, stemming back to the Spanish ruling class during the age of imperialism.

The former owners of those regions were eradicated either by disease, war, or cultural indoctrination...as for Spanish claims to those areas, they lost their former colonies over a century ago, with their sphere of influence over the region ending after the Spanish American war...essentially abdonding their former colonies to fend for themselves in Third World squalor.

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: tss4
I guess I'm suprised by just how vehemently SOG is against this. There are several elementary schools near where I live that teach in a different language. They're pretty neat. They start by teaching the second langauge right along side of english for the first couple of years. After about 2nd grade, they teach everything in the second laguage except for english class. Their standardized testing scores are still excellent. I guess I just see it as an opportunity. Having a second language doesn't guarantee success, but it gives you more opportunities. And the best way to learn is at an early age. Don't most Europeans schools teach a second language? And they routinely beat us in test scores for math and science. So, I don't really see how one negates the other. I would whole heartedly agree that there are some stupid things taught in school that waste out time (home economics, anyone?), but I don't see a second language as one of them.

We aren't Europe. However, my position is not against allowing kids to learn a second language, or the supposed effects it has on intelligence. This is about the state FORCING kids to learn it. The school's job is to teach English, Math, and Science. They should make sure they are doing an Excellent job of doing that before taking more of the already(allegedly) stretched resources(good teachers, $, and time) to teach this other language.

No we're not Europe. All I was saying is that they do it and have higher test scores. It was my second example showing that a second langauge has no negative correlation (and possibly has a positive correlation) with learning other subjects. English, Math and Science are certainly the most important subjects. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but I feel in a world that is becoming increasingly globalized, being able to effectively communicate with more of the worlds potential customers, is a good skill.

You know, I guess I'm coming at it more from the perspective of a good student. A good student will put in the time and do well in his/her core subjects. Getting a second language at such an early age will only help him. I just feel that most of the responsibility for poor performance in schools is the parent's fault and why should my children miss out on a second language because other people can't get their kids to pay attention in school. I think that if my kids do bad in school, its my fault. I feel its a matter of personal responsibility and I don't think its right to always point the finger at others and blame them for my kids doing badly.

However, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. I guess it can be optional, but honestly, skipping it seems like the lazy route to me.

Problem here is that they are requiring children to learn Spanish. I'd be okay with children getting the option to learn Spanish, German, Japanese, Chinese, etc.

Forcing children to learn Spanish, and just Spanish, will not wave a magic wand and make them smarter, like more school days/hours, or more funding, etc.

There's several reasons why we do so much worse than other nations on test scores. I think one of the biggest reasons is that we force everyone to go to public schools, whereas some foreign nations weed out people at an early age. Another thing to consider is our culutre. It's not cool to spend all your free time studying and preparing. Kids are taught by our culture to put it off, and slack off. No matter how much opportunity you give someone, with that kind of attitude, you won't get results.

And I wouldn't call forcing Spanish an opportunity. For some perhaps. For others, a distraction.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: Legend
Problem here is that they are requiring children to learn Spanish. I'd be okay with children getting the option to learn Spanish, German, Japanese, Chinese, etc.

Forcing children to learn Spanish, and just Spanish, will not wave a magic wand and make them smarter, like more school days/hours, or more funding, etc.

There's several reasons why we do so much worse than other nations on test scores. I think one of the biggest reasons is that we force everyone to go to public schools, whereas some foreign nations weed out people at an early age. Another thing to consider is our culutre. It's not cool to spend all your free time studying and preparing. Kids are taught by our culture to put it off, and slack off. No matter how much opportunity you give someone, with that kind of attitude, you won't get results.

And I wouldn't call forcing Spanish an opportunity. For some perhaps. For others, a distraction.

Sure, these are two seperate issues. Offering a foreign language at an early age is a great idea. Mandating spanish is probably not such a hot idea.

 

[DrPizza]

The school's job is to teach English, Math, and Science

I can only hope that your child's school gives them the ability to think critically. You claim your child's school is failing miserably. Yet, your posts give evidence that perhaps other than for grammar and spelling skills, your own school failed miserably as well.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
My kid is 13mo old and has been attending a Spanish immersion school since February.

A foreign language (ANY language) should be required course of study for young children. It's good for the noggin'.

dude to a 13 month old any language is foreign.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

The school's job is to teach English, Math, and Science

I can only hope that your child's school gives them the ability to think critically. You claim your child's school is failing miserably. Yet, your posts give evidence that perhaps other than for grammar and spelling skills, your own school failed miserably as well.

:roll: I did not say my kid's school was failing miserably. Seems it is YOUR school that failed.

BTW, it my job as a parent to teach critical thinking, not allow some government institution teach that. They can build on what I as a parent teach however.

 

[cstegger]

The idea of offering a second language in school at such a young age is a wonderful idea. But why mandate spanish for such a language. Why not give options. <rant> The only language that should be mandated is English, not spanish, french, german, russian, or chinese. To think that we should mandate spanish more suggests there is an immigration problem we cannot solve. Perhaps we should require proficiency in English by all immigrants expecting work permits or such. Or if you cannot speak English, you cannot live here on a permanent basis. I don't thing requiring English to be to harsh either. There are many reasons our schools do not perform campared to other countries, and the problem is at home as much as it is at school. Culture also is a big problem with that. </rant> Learning options are great but not forced options by immigration problems.