So, you admit to drinking, you admit to being pulled over, and I'll assume you didn't request the breathalyzer. Apparently there was a reason you got a DUI.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
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alkemyst, I think you are a typical e-penis measuring, know-it-all jerk but you are dead-on in this. Even though you are correct, you will not find much, if any, sympathy on this board. Most folks on this board seem quite happy to trample on the rights of others for the sake of convenience. Keep in mind, most of the posters here are very happy with nanny-state type policies (anti-smoking laws for private establishments for example).
I cannot believe you are actually trying to justify drinking and driving. Just don't f'in drink! It's not a f'in neccessity. If you can't get a ride home some other way, THEN JUST DONT DO IT!
I think the pink tags is a great idea. Maybe it'll make people think twice.
- Oct 28, 1999
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Short of starting to execute people who kill others from their actions, I don't know what to do.
My uncle (who lived in Florida) was killed by a drunk driver. The guy who hit him had his license suspend 12 TIMES for DUI convictions.
The guy got setenced 12 years and was out in 6.
Pathetic.
Seriously. What can you do to stop this? Pink tags aren't going to do it. Suspended licenses are useless. The in car breathalizers are easily avoided. Really, what can you do short of just removing these people from the face of the planet?
My uncle (who lived in Florida) was killed by a drunk driver. The guy who hit him had his license suspend 12 TIMES for DUI convictions.
The guy got setenced 12 years and was out in 6.
Pathetic.
Seriously. What can you do to stop this? Pink tags aren't going to do it. Suspended licenses are useless. The in car breathalizers are easily avoided. Really, what can you do short of just removing these people from the face of the planet?
How about special tags for people who get pulled over for driving sleepy/tired. There is growing evidence that driving drowsy is just as bad and possibly worse than driving drunk. Many of the crashes attributed to alcohol may actually be caused by a tired driver.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
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DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
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I ask again, will drowsy drivers be subject to the same treatment and removal of rights? How about speeders? With they have to get special tags too?
SMOGZINN
Lifer
- Jun 17, 2005
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How can one make that last statement? It has nothing to do with freedoms? Is it because removing these freedoms does not affect you? If you will not protect others freedoms who will defend you when they want to take your freedoms away?
I have seen many people here state that the victim?s rights and freedoms are more important then the criminals. That is just wrong. They are both equally important. To take a right or freedom away from anyone takes that right or freedom away from everyone. If you take the right or freedom from unreasonable search and seizure from the criminal, you have taken it from the law abiding because it is no longer a right, but a privilege that can now be taken away from you with but a label.
But driving is not a right, it is a privilege. I would like to punch the first person to come up with that little piece of propaganda. They are successfully convincing you that the government has to give you rights. Rights are yours because you are alive. No government gives you rights. Anything not expressly forbidden in our social contract is a right. Otherwise they could take anything away from you by simply claiming it as a privilege. Vision is not a right, it is a privilege. No where is your right to free vision given in the Constitution. So if you go around staring at pretty women we will force you to wear a blindfold.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
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- Feb 13, 2001
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I never said that there were not other parts of the system that are in violation, but WTF is saying that's a necessary evil. These kinds of things were adamantly spoken about during the foundation of this country.
The problem is cowards today that want to live life in a bubble.
Taking away rights from a felon is a lot different than someone committing a misdemenor.
radioouman
Diamond Member
- Nov 4, 2002
- 8,632
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First off most don't understand the problem nor the method to enforce the laws.
The number of arrests vs the number of actual accidents in DUI/DWI are extremely skewed. There is no doubt when a drunk driver does kill someone that it's tragic. However, there is a lot to debate whether all those accidents were directly caused by the alcohol. On top of the other fatalities out there, alcohol is a minor problem in reality. It's sensationalized dramatically though.
To the person above stating 4 beers in 4 hours is dangerous, for some it may be. However, the law is not designed that you cannot drink at all. There is a big difference to someone having a drink or two over a couple hours and driving home vs someone pounding down 12+ beers/shots in a few hours and driving home. The problem is most of the time it's the person that really is not even affected, yet will 'blow' right at the 0.8 limit and is stopped solely due to a road block (which I also think is a major violation of our rights).
Then one has to realize that you don't even have to be driving to get a DUI. Having your keys in close enough proximity to your vehicle while intoxicated is a method esp. places that impound vehicles use. I personally knew a guy that was detailing his car in his driveway in New York and was drinking. He was not driving, but had his keys in the ignition to play the radio. He was arrested, his car towed, and then impounded. He is a lawyer and moved here for that very reason, he is actively fighting some of these things.
You can also be arrested for DUI if you are trying to sleep it off in the backseat of the car. This is a common arrest for younger people.
Fieldside tests do nothing but provide a video tape of a stumbling person. Most people cannot successfully complete roadside test given roadside. There are obviously people falling down drunk, but these tests are truly designed to only provide evidence.
MADD/SADD have built up one of the most powerful lobbies in the nation, they wrap other issues with their poster cases. Who is going to say no to a mother that just tragically lost a child? They then get votes for their side issues. Plus it's a HUGE cash cow.
Don't take what I am saying as it's ok to get smashed and go out driving. What I am saying is most of those falling victim to this revenue generator would have never been in an accident due to the drinking they did then or in the future.
Those that are irresponsible or criminal, will do what they do...no laws will help, no labels will help...only getting them off the street. Even then nothing is going to stop them from driving illegally.
In the end though it's like any other murderer, it's rare...it's indeed a problem, but there is nothing you can really do if your number is up.
The number of arrests vs the number of actual accidents in DUI/DWI are extremely skewed. There is no doubt when a drunk driver does kill someone that it's tragic. However, there is a lot to debate whether all those accidents were directly caused by the alcohol. On top of the other fatalities out there, alcohol is a minor problem in reality. It's sensationalized dramatically though.
To the person above stating 4 beers in 4 hours is dangerous, for some it may be. However, the law is not designed that you cannot drink at all. There is a big difference to someone having a drink or two over a couple hours and driving home vs someone pounding down 12+ beers/shots in a few hours and driving home. The problem is most of the time it's the person that really is not even affected, yet will 'blow' right at the 0.8 limit and is stopped solely due to a road block (which I also think is a major violation of our rights).
Then one has to realize that you don't even have to be driving to get a DUI. Having your keys in close enough proximity to your vehicle while intoxicated is a method esp. places that impound vehicles use. I personally knew a guy that was detailing his car in his driveway in New York and was drinking. He was not driving, but had his keys in the ignition to play the radio. He was arrested, his car towed, and then impounded. He is a lawyer and moved here for that very reason, he is actively fighting some of these things.
You can also be arrested for DUI if you are trying to sleep it off in the backseat of the car. This is a common arrest for younger people.
Fieldside tests do nothing but provide a video tape of a stumbling person. Most people cannot successfully complete roadside test given roadside. There are obviously people falling down drunk, but these tests are truly designed to only provide evidence.
MADD/SADD have built up one of the most powerful lobbies in the nation, they wrap other issues with their poster cases. Who is going to say no to a mother that just tragically lost a child? They then get votes for their side issues. Plus it's a HUGE cash cow.
Don't take what I am saying as it's ok to get smashed and go out driving. What I am saying is most of those falling victim to this revenue generator would have never been in an accident due to the drinking they did then or in the future.
Those that are irresponsible or criminal, will do what they do...no laws will help, no labels will help...only getting them off the street. Even then nothing is going to stop them from driving illegally.
In the end though it's like any other murderer, it's rare...it's indeed a problem, but there is nothing you can really do if your number is up.
geecee
Platinum Member
- Jan 14, 2003
- 2,383
- 43
- 91
I have no problem with the plate color differentiation. Even the traffic stop is not that big a deal, as long as there's no ticket/summons given if nothing is wrong. The search is definitely a little overboard though.
There are those who will view this as a curtailment of rights, but what about the rights of others to not live in fear of the dangers that drunken driving pose to them? Now, I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, but if they refuse to learn their lesson, why shouldn't their rights be curtailed? These measures aren't being enacted on everyone, just those that have shown the willingness to violate the law.
From a personal point of view, I can say that the few times that I have been irresponsible enough to have done heavy drinking without any alternate way of getting home other than driving my own car, I have also been smart enough to just sleep in my car until some other way became available (as far as even sleeping in my car until the next morning). The same goes for being tired. I have parked my car on the street or in parking lots just to nap in it for a few hours if I felt myself falling asleep at the wheel. Getting home is just a convenience in these situations, one that is not worth the risk of other peoples' lives (or my own for that matter). If it sounds overly dramatic, that's fine with me. If a few more drunks were overly dramatic, there might a few less drunk driving victims.
EDIT: Seeing the post above, I suppose I am fortunate that I have never been arrested for "sleeping it off" in my car. But it was only a handful of times, and when I was MUCH younger.
EDIT2: I vaguely recall you talking about this in another thread as well alkemyst. I understand your opinion but still don't necessarily agree. As I said last time, a line/standard has to be drawn somewhere. The existing law is meant to discourage DWI, i.e. if there's some question of whether you've had too much to drink, then you shouldn't be driving at all.
There are those who will view this as a curtailment of rights, but what about the rights of others to not live in fear of the dangers that drunken driving pose to them? Now, I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, but if they refuse to learn their lesson, why shouldn't their rights be curtailed? These measures aren't being enacted on everyone, just those that have shown the willingness to violate the law.
From a personal point of view, I can say that the few times that I have been irresponsible enough to have done heavy drinking without any alternate way of getting home other than driving my own car, I have also been smart enough to just sleep in my car until some other way became available (as far as even sleeping in my car until the next morning). The same goes for being tired. I have parked my car on the street or in parking lots just to nap in it for a few hours if I felt myself falling asleep at the wheel. Getting home is just a convenience in these situations, one that is not worth the risk of other peoples' lives (or my own for that matter). If it sounds overly dramatic, that's fine with me. If a few more drunks were overly dramatic, there might a few less drunk driving victims.
EDIT: Seeing the post above, I suppose I am fortunate that I have never been arrested for "sleeping it off" in my car. But it was only a handful of times, and when I was MUCH younger.
EDIT2: I vaguely recall you talking about this in another thread as well alkemyst. I understand your opinion but still don't necessarily agree.
As I said last time, a line/standard has to be drawn somewhere. The existing law is meant to discourage DWI, i.e. if there's some question of whether you've had too much to drink, then you shouldn't be driving at all.
Kelemvor
Lifer
- May 23, 2002
- 16,928
- 8
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Giving them a pink license plate is uncontitutional or offensive to women or something. Just like the locker room at wherever that was thatr had it painted pink for the visitng teams. All the wacked out feminists complained that they were all personally offended somehow....
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
No. I'm simply showing the idiocy of your example.
It is not anyones 'right' to drive drunk. It's not anyones right to get high. It's not anyones right to shoot each other in the leg.
Just because you 'could' do something doesn't mean it is a right.
On the other hand, I have the right to breathe and the right to see, so you cannot take that away from me, as in your post. Your example was in fact stalking . That is not a right either. The vision was simply a tool to carry out the crime. You don't cut off hands to prevent burglary, so equaly we don't blind stalkers.
See? (pun intended)
- Oct 28, 1999
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Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
Giving them a pink license plate is uncontitutional or offensive to women or something. Just like the locker room at wherever that was thatr had it painted pink for the visitng teams. All the wacked out feminists complained that they were all personally offended somehow....
That is at U of Iowa. We paint the visiting football team's locker rooms pink.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
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I am all for the pink plate.
But it needs a time limit and they need to take off the ability to search the car whenever they want. i have no problem with humiliating the person who did it. Though this is not going to stop someone from doing it.
heck harsher penalties or revoking the license will not either. there is really nothing i can think of that can or will work. many people are addicted to alcohol and will do anything they can to have more. they are not thinking about what may happen they just want the next "fix".
But it needs a time limit and they need to take off the ability to search the car whenever they want. i have no problem with humiliating the person who did it. Though this is not going to stop someone from doing it.
heck harsher penalties or revoking the license will not either. there is really nothing i can think of that can or will work. many people are addicted to alcohol and will do anything they can to have more. they are not thinking about what may happen they just want the next "fix".
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