Florida kids calling Trump out on his BS

[MomentsofSanity]

Is anyone watching the Trump interaction with the students? It looks like they filtered those who were invited.

Or they are just showing more respect for the office than the occupant?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I've also posted a link about how a few Texas school districts have instituted school safety protocols. Actual safety plans to help deal with school shootings. Not pie in the sky "let's ban all the evil guns" not complete bullshit #NEVER AGAIN, but sensible solutions that can be working in schools within a matter of a few weeks. Watch all the lefties and liberals and anti-gun bedwetters scream about something that may actually make a difference though.
https://kxan.com/2018/02/16/north-texas-schools-with-armed-teachers-hope-to-protect-students/

"WICHITA FALLS, Texas (KFDX) — Both Harrold and Holliday Independent School Districts have been allowing members of their staffs to conceal carry handguns for years, with Harrold being one of the first in the nation to do so."

and

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dent...orida-lawmakers-pushing-for-options/519416914

"Just south of Denton, the Argyle Independent School District designated in 2014 to select amount of employees to carry guns on campuses to prevent a mass shooting. At Keene Independent School District, school leaders voted to do the same thing in 2015."

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I've also posted a link about how a few Texas school districts have instituted school safety protocols. Actual safety plans to help deal with school shootings. Not pie in the sky "let's ban all the evil guns" not complete bullshit #NEVER AGAIN, but sensible solutions that can be working in schools within a matter of a few weeks. Watch all the lefties and liberals and anti-gun bedwetters scream about something that may actually make a difference though.
https://kxan.com/2018/02/16/north-texas-schools-with-armed-teachers-hope-to-protect-students/

"WICHITA FALLS, Texas (KFDX) — Both Harrold and Holliday Independent School Districts have been allowing members of their staffs to conceal carry handguns for years, with Harrold being one of the first in the nation to do so."

and

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dent...orida-lawmakers-pushing-for-options/519416914

"Just south of Denton, the Argyle Independent School District designated in 2014 to select amount of employees to carry guns on campuses to prevent a mass shooting. At Keene Independent School District, school leaders voted to do the same thing in 2015."

Fortunately their only accidental victims are toilets and themselves so far.

http://www.wvea.org/content/teacher-hurt-when-gun-accidentally-shatters-toilet

And not many have been stolen by students.

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2012/jan/17/jacksonville-high-student-steals-gun-teacher/

http://amarillo.com/stories/021504/tex_teacherresign.shtml#.Wo38taZyahA

Meh what could go wrong. More guns for everyone.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Fortunately their only accidental victims are toilets and themselves so far.

http://www.wvea.org/content/teacher-hurt-when-gun-accidentally-shatters-toilet

And not many have been stolen by students.

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2012/jan/17/jacksonville-high-student-steals-gun-teacher/

http://amarillo.com/stories/021504/tex_teacherresign.shtml#.Wo38taZyahA

Meh what could go wrong. More guns for everyone.

So you're happy with security for schools as it is? OK, I bet most parents with school kids won't agree with you, but it's your choice. What's your solution?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So you're happy with security for schools as it is? OK, I bet most parents with school kids won't agree with you, but it's your choice. What's your solution?

Why do you always have to dishonestly present peoples opinions? You don’t need to give me a position I never stated to discuss something.

I honestly don’t know the answer. No one does. But I don’t believe the answer is putting safety and security in the hands of people when that is not their primarily role. No teachers. No volunteers.

The solution to this question is going to be far more complex and expensive than this forum can cover. But until everything is open to discussion. I mean honest discussion. No slippery slope arguments. No hyperbole. Until people are truly ready to do that nothing will be accomplished.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Why do you always have to dishonestly present peoples opinions? You don’t need to give me a position I never stated to discuss something.

I honestly don’t know the answer. No one does. But I don’t believe the answer is putting safety and security in the hands of people when that is not their primarily role. No teachers. No volunteers.

The solution to this question is going to be far more complex and expensive than this forum can cover. But until everything is open to doscussion. I mean honest discussion. No slippery slope arguments. No hyperbole. Until people are truly ready to do that nothing will be accomplished.

Actually someone does, there's more than 4 Texas independent school districts (ISDs) that use faculty volunteers to help school security. Why would this partial security solution make you so angry?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Actually someone does, there's more than 4 Texas independent school districts (ISDs) that use faculty volunteers to help school security. Why would this partial security solution make you so angry?

Again with the dishonesty. No where did I say imply or insinuate it makes me angry. If you’re going to engage do so honestly.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Again with the dishonesty. No where did I say imply or insinuate it makes me angry. If you’re going to engage do so honestly.

A solution that has been successful in more than these ISDs is available and out there and ready to help kids now. You can do whatever you like.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I’ve coordinated large scale security contingents of up to a couple hundred people for both single venue and multiple location events. Contract, volunteer or sometimes both. My experience with volunteers is they make good window dressing. A large number either lack vigilance or are over zealous. They are unpredictable at best when faced with anything serious. Because that’s not their job. That’s not what they continually train for. They panic.

So no I don’t think they would be the right solution to this issue. If we were to go down that route I’d much prefer people who are more experienced and predictable. Regularly conditioned and trained. But I’m not convinced that’s the answer to begin with.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I’ve coordinated large scale security contingents of up to a couple hundred people for both single venue and multiple location events. Contract, volunteer or sometimes both. My experience with volunteers is they make good window dressing. A large number either lack vigilance or are over zealous. They are unpredictable at best when faced with anything serious. Because that’s not their job. That’s not what they continually train for. They panic.

So no I don’t think they would be the right solution to this issue. If we were to go down that route I’d much prefer people who are more experienced and predictable. Regularly conditioned and trained. But I’m not convinced that’s the answer to begin with.

Hiring preferences for returning veterans and retired police for school jobs?

 

[jpeyton]

Watching that "listening session" Trump just had must have sent shockwaves through NRA headquarters. What a disaster for gun fetishists everywhere.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Watching that "listening session" Trump just had must have sent shockwaves through NRA headquarters. What a disaster for gun fetishists everywhere.

Only in your dreams.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Hiring preferences for returning veterans and retired police for school jobs?

Absolutely if that was determined to be the best option. The counter to that is the cost. How many do you need at each school? What does that look like and do you do it at every school? Will people accept that cost?

This is why I admit I don’t have all the answers. I do have preferences based on my own experiences.

 

[soundforbjt]

Watching that "listening session" Trump just had must have sent shockwaves through NRA headquarters. What a disaster for gun fetishists everywhere.

Are you kidding? With the exception of a couple of people there it was republican talking points. Did you watch it all?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Absolutely if that was determined to be the best option. The counter to that is the cost. How many do you need at each school? What does that look like and do you do it at every school? Will people accept that cost?

This is why I admit I don’t have all the answers. I do have preferences based on my own experiences.

Not hired as security, hired as instructors and staff.

 

[soundforbjt]

Not hired as security, hired as instructors and staff.

Why not hired as security?

 

[vi edit]

Here's my problem with this entire focused effort on *just* the schools. Ok fine. We hardpoint classrooms. What about Friday night sporting events with mass crowds at stadiums? What about proms that aren't even on campus? What about night clubs? Concerts? And so on. None of those are in scope of those and all still widely vulnerable.

We are just reacting to a single piece of this puzzle and not the larger issue as a whole.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Why not hired as security?

Costs, i think using volunteers for the program is a better use of funds. You might even have experienced faculty with concealed carry licenses already in the school.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Here's my problem with this entire focused effort on *just* the schools. Ok fine. We hardpoint classrooms. What about Friday night sporting events with mass crowds at stadiums? What about proms that aren't even on campus? What about night clubs? Concerts? And so on. None of those are in scope of those and all still widely vulnerable.

We are just reacting to a single piece of this puzzle and not the larger issue as a whole.

Get a carry license, be your own security.

 

[jpeyton]

Are you kidding? With the exception of a couple of people there it was republican talking points. Did you watch it all?

Remember the context. If you think Trump was going to televise people calling for AR-15 bans from the White House while he was getting roasted by parents, that was never going to happen. He controlled the guests, the venue, and things were carefully arranged.

That said, you still had an event at the White House where the overarching theme was that something needs to be done about mass shootings. Realistically, there's no way they will be able to push to arm teachers nationwide. Most teachers I know don't want to be armed or trained in urban combat; they want to teach. That leaves us with things like better background checks, banning bump stocks, and other measures that were considered DOA in Washington DC 2 weeks ago.

It's a slippery slope (in a good way). More gun control laws, even small ones, are a step in the right direction.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Remember the context. If you think Trump was going to televise people calling for AR-15 bans from the White House while he was getting roasted by parents, that was never going to happen. He controlled the guests, the venue, and things were carefully arranged.

That said, you still had an event at the White House where the overarching theme was that something needs to be done about mass shootings. Realistically, there's no way they will be able to push to arm teachers nationwide. Most teachers I know don't want to be armed or trained in urban combat; they want to teach. That leaves us with things like better background checks, banning bump stocks, and other measures that were considered DOA in Washington DC 2 weeks ago.

Yes the mental health provisions that the NRA and NSSF have been pushing for years.

 

[HomerJS]

How about all of the below for starters.

Raise purchase age for all firearms to 21
Red flag laws in every state
Allow schools to hire professional security if they want. Don't arm teachers. They already have enough to do.
Full time volunteers must pass strict screening
Nationwide standards for background checks
Allow government agencies/medical profession to collect gun violence data

For debate later
Assault weapons ban or possible max rounds/per minute ban
Licensing for guns to include competency test and mental health screening. Renewal period
Possible buyback programs
All sellers of guns must complete all background checks
No gifting of guns without background check

 

[imported_tajmahal]

How about all of the below for starters.

Raise purchase age for all firearms to 21
Red flag laws in every state
Allow schools to hire professional security if they want. Don't arm teachers. They already have enough to do.
Full time volunteers must pass strict screening
Nationwide standards for background checks
Allow government agencies/medical profession to collect gun violence data

1. OK
2. Not well enough defined for me. No.
3.No, arming faculty is a sensible solution. Yes to hiring guards if the district chooses and the district pays for it.
4.OK
5.Depending on the details a maybe.
6. Only if carefully monitored to eliminate anti-gun bias.

 

[soundforbjt]

Remember the context. If you think Trump was going to televise people calling for AR-15 bans from the White House while he was getting roasted by parents, that was never going to happen. He controlled the guests, the venue, and things were carefully arranged.

That said, you still had an event at the White House where the overarching theme was that something needs to be done about mass shootings. Realistically, there's no way they will be able to push to arm teachers nationwide. Most teachers I know don't want to be armed or trained in urban combat; they want to teach. That leaves us with things like better background checks, banning bump stocks, and other measures that were considered DOA in Washington DC 2 weeks ago.

It's a slippery slope (in a good way). More gun control laws, even small ones, are a step in the right direction.

You’re more of an optimist then I am. The NRA won’t allow anything of real value to get done.

 

[jpeyton]

This "arming teachers" thing is a complete pipe dream.

Think back to your teachers in school. How many of them do you think would even volunteer to carry a firearm? Let alone get trained/certified to carry one?

Are they going to receive SWAT training too? I've taken your standard CCW training, and I can tell you it doesn't do anything to prepare you for a handgun vs. AR-15 shootout in close quarters combat.

Our country can't even buy school supplies for teachers, who often buy them out of pocket. Now all of a sudden we have the budget for CQB weaponry and training for 3+ million educators? Pipe dream.

This leads us back to armed security, and leads us back to this unfortunate truth: Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School has an armed school resource officer provided by Broward County Sheriffs, and the shooting still happened.