Florida High School Shooting

[zerocool84]

but its a law that everyone must have healthcare
you mean people dont follow the law?

Exactly, Republicans do not want to stop school shootings. Don't want to restrict guns in any way and don't want to help people with mental health issues. They want to do nothing.

 

[jackstar7]

again, talk to carol browne

talk to Chris Kyle... oh wait.

 

[Mai72]

Has anyone noticed that kids today seem very angry? Especially white males?

Not all of course. Just a small group. They seem very very angry which is why we are seeing these shootings.

 

[fskimospy]

and research show that guns are used over 1.5 million times a year in self defense
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

That research has been debunked and doesn't even pass the smell test. More likely estimates are about 100,000-200,000

Another thing to note is that research indicates that more than half of 'defensive gun uses' are actually crimes in and of themselves, meaning these defensive gun uses are actually widespread criminal activity.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Has anyone noticed that kids today seem very angry? Especially white males?

Not all of course. Just a small group. They seem very very angry which is why we are seeing these shootings.

Extreme levels of self entitlement (both imposed and derived)
plus
disillusionment and rejection upon reaching maturity/adult years
equals
anger, rage, abusive behavior (to self and others), suicide, murder.

 

[HomerJS]

The root cause of this is improperly treated mental illness. In question is how to deal with that.

Why is the next step never taken separate the mentally ill from guns? This guy was already a known threat he should have not been allowed to purchase an AR-15.

2A is not absolute. Why should a mentally deranged person or one prone to violence be allowed to own a gun?

 

[HomerJS]

Can you imagine the call for action/legislation by Trump and Republicans if all these mass shootings were being committed by immigrants or people of color?

For these its just "o they are mentally ill so we can't do anything"

 

[Puffnstuff]

Exactly how did this conversation deviate from a school shooting to wild bears in the woods? Nevertheless, it did get me to thinking about bears with guns and then this happened.

 

[pmv]

Heavily regulated? I can go to my local convenience store and pick up a carton of Marlboros anytime I want. No background check. I can hand packs of smokes out to kids and not go to jail. I'm sure that a lot of stores sell them to underage kids as well.

btw, I don't do cigs. Nasty disgusting things. Way too expensive too.

But most of the reason for their being expensive is tax (here, taxes make up 80% of the price). So you appear to be saying that government regulation is actually part of the reason why you don't smoke.

 

[glenn1]

Has anyone noticed that kids today seem very angry? Especially white males?

Not all of course. Just a small group. They seem very very angry which is why we are seeing these shootings.

Considering that white males are still a plurality of the U.S. youth population you've not exactly narrowed things down much. That's a population of 11.6 million, the law of large numbers basically assures some of them are going to be "very angry." If you have some hypothesis why young white males would be more angry than non-white and non-male peers then by all means please share so the theory can be examined.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Damn a person close to the shooter called a tip line on January 5.

 

[jackstar7]

Why is the next step never taken separate the mentally ill from guns? This guy was already a known threat he should have not been allowed to purchase an AR-15.

2A is not absolute. Why should a mentally deranged person or one prone to violence be allowed to own a gun?

The counter-argument from the ACLU is (as long as 2A stands) why should someone with an eating disorder not be allowed to own a gun?

We need both better mental health logistics AND actual gov't funded studies into gun violence.

 

[Jaskalas]

Mass shooting deaths aren't that high to begin with and get outsized attention for the same reason deaths via plane crash get outsized attention versus death by the exponentially more common car crash. Gun control to address mass shootings is most definitely a case of "don't let a crisis go to waste."

And you ignore the fact that gun control would address / attempt to prevent ALL those deaths.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Exactly how did this conversation deviate from a school shooting to wild bears in the woods? Nevertheless, it did get me to thinking about bears with guns and then this happened.

 

[Thebobo]

Has anyone noticed that kids today seem very angry? Especially white males?

Not all of course. Just a small group. They seem very very angry which is why we are seeing these shootings.

Eh were were angry when I was younger but not at each other it was the cops and gov.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

The counter-argument from the ACLU is (as long as 2A stands) why should someone with an eating disorder not be allowed to own a gun?

There needs to be a very strong delineation between mental conditions that can result in violent behavior/tenancies and ones that do not. I don't feel like that's a tall hurdle to jump.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Reports of gunshots at Highline community college in Washington just coming up here.

 

[jpeyton]

Has anyone noticed that kids today seem very angry? Especially white males?

Not all of course. Just a small group. They seem very very angry which is why we are seeing these shootings.

I don't really buy into the whole "kids these days aren't raised right" argument against gun control.

If anything, kids in previous generations were exposed to some of the most horrific events our world has ever gone through. Global wars that slaughtered tens of millions of soldiers AND civilians. Diseases that killed countless millions indiscriminately. Famine, drought, economic depression. Life expectancy numbers were much lower, mortality rates for many common ailments were much higher, law enforcement was much less robust, and social safety nets didn't exist.

This isn't rocket science. Look at Australia, look at Great Britain, look at most western democracies, and the simple truth is that they have a fraction of a percent of gun related homicides that we do. Their kids have the same level of exposure to violent media, pharmaceuticals, education, and social norms, but they don't have the same access to firearms.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Reports of gunshots at Highline community college in Washington just coming up here.

Ugh, might as well just keep one '2018 Mass Shooting Megathread' sticked and just update the first post with new incidents.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I don't even want to start a new thread. someone else can.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[jackstar7]

I don't really buy into the whole "kids these days aren't raised right" argument against gun control.

If anything, kids in previous generations were exposed to some of the most horrific events our world has ever gone through. Global wars that slaughtered tens of millions of soldiers AND civilians. Diseases that killed countless millions indiscriminately. Famine, drought, economic depression. Life expectancy numbers were much lower, mortality rates for many common ailments were much higher, law enforcement was much less robust, and social safety nets didn't exist.

This isn't rocket science. Look at Australia, look at Great Britain, look at most western democracies, and the simple truth is that they have a fraction of a percent of gun related homicides that we do. Their kids have the same level of exposure to violent media, pharmaceuticals, education, and social norms, but they don't have the same access to firearms.

It's been spelled out for them many times. They always deflect and divert and obfuscate to avoid the simple reality.

 

[mdram]

I don't really buy into the whole "kids these days aren't raised right" argument against gun control.
.

kids are discouraged from touching firearms, not educated on them
they are treated as things of mystery, and only seen on tv and video games.

growing up i was taught to shoot, and knew not to touch a gun without supervision.
safety was emphasized.

i saw the damage a gun could do when hunting.

take away the education and training, make things mysterious, and kids get curious
then bad things happen

 

[glenn1]

There needs to be a very strong delineation between mental conditions that can result in violent behavior/tenancies and ones that do not. I don't feel like that's a tall hurdle to jump.

The standard isn't the hurdle, it's the due process rights that even the mentally ill are still entitled to. You could expedite the removal of guns from the mentally ill given more resources and money but it's never going to be as quick as would be required to make mass shootings by the insane anything but a non-zero number. The question becomes one of where the appropriate trade-off between the rights of the potentially mentally ill and those of society at large. Remember as well it's not as simple as "act crazy and we'll take away your guns," being judged mentally incapable means considerable adverse changes for those so found, everything from involuntary forced institutionalization to loss of voting rights and many other rights besides.

 

[jackstar7]

kids are discouraged from touching firearms, not educated on them
they are treated as things of mystery, and only seen on tv and video games.

growing up i was taught to shoot, and knew not to touch a gun without supervision.
safety was emphasized.

i saw the damage a gun could do when hunting.

take away the education and training, make things mysterious, and kids get curious
then bad things happen

That's pretty poor logic.

I mean... holy shit, it's just really bad.

 

[SlowSpyder]

That research has been debunked and doesn't even pass the smell test. More likely estimates are about 100,000-200,000

Another thing to note is that research indicates that more than half of 'defensive gun uses' are actually crimes in and of themselves, meaning these defensive gun uses are actually widespread criminal activity.

Guns are used 100,000-200,000 times in self defense per year? That's that many lives potentially saved. To me this just reinforces how much good guns do for society, despite the press'es glorification and magnification every time they are used for evil intent.