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Florida High School Shooting

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[DHT]Osiris said:
Sigh, right now you can purchase any given long gun at age 18, primarily for hunting reasons. Same for long gun ammunition. If it's old enough for someone to vote for their leader, it's probably old enough to plink cans and/or hunt for their family.
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I know it's Merica fuck yeah! I want to shoot cans blah blah. Who cares? I know our government is fucked up, I know laws are fucked up. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it. There are valid points all around. I am not for taking away guns and saying we need 10000 different regulations. But we need something, I'm sorry, it's fucking insane anyone can walk in and buy a gun with little to no effort. I needed a stronger background check for my job than I needed for a gun.
 
Maybe people like Remington Arms pay people or somehow encourage people to commit mass murder to increase gun sales. Look at all the peaceful movies that are made by Hollywood (Sarcasm added).
 
Dulanic said:
I know it's Merica fuck yeah! I want to shoot cans blah blah. Who cares? I know our government is fucked up, I know laws are fucked up. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it. There are valid points all around. I am not for taking away guns and saying we need 10000 different regulations. But we need something, I'm sorry, it's fucking insane anyone can walk in and buy a gun with little to no effort. I needed a stronger background check for my job than I needed for a gun.
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We can go round and round about this, but the fact is people are considered grown-ass adults at 18, are expected to pay taxes, get a job, make babies, drive a car, vote, all that shit. In days long past, people were stabbing each other in the face by 12-15 as part of that nation's conscripted military, and 16 is early enough for the US Military with parental approval, so in the grand scheme of things, letting an 18 year old of sound mind buy a rifle pegs a solid 0.0 on my list of shit I have concerns about.
 
Dulanic said:
Failure #1 a punk ass teenager can buy the AR-15 legally.

That's the biggest failure IMO. Are there other failures? Absolutely, but I'm, fucking tired of the non stop deflection away from gun laws.
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there are many 'punk ass teenagers' i would trust with an ar more than most people.
they make up a good portion of our armed forces
 
WackyDan said:
Fucking hell Homer. Where did I say I was ok with selling him an AR? Current law is ok with it. People are asking how he was able to buy one...Doesn't take a moron to figure out the how. It takes an entire political system and public to change that.

The rest of your response fucking agreed with what I asked and said. Go back and read what you responded to.
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My original question why was it ok to sell him the AR-15. Your response was because it is legal. I replied so just because it is legal you are ok with it. However I did leave off the question mark.

My point it being legal doesn't make it right. Wanted to know where you personally stood. Segregation was legal at one time but it was never right.

I stand corrected.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
We can go round and round about this, but the fact is people are considered grown-ass adults at 18, are expected to pay taxes, get a job, make babies, drive a car, vote, all that shit. In days long past, people were stabbing each other in the face by 12-15 as part of that nation's conscripted military, and 16 is early enough for the US Military with parental approval, so in the grand scheme of things, letting an 18 year old of sound mind buy a rifle pegs a solid 0.0 on my list of shit I have concerns about.
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I agree and disagree. But we don't even have solid background checks. We should. I think we could both agree he was not of sound mind, which we can't find out without some basic restrictions.
 
Dulanic said:
I agree and disagree. But we don't even have solid background checks. We should. I think we could both agree he was not of sound mind, which we can't find out without some basic restrictions.
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Now we're talking about background checks, primarily mental health based, which we have a common ground to stand on. I would fully endorse full mental health screening of all young adults, even beyond simply to buy firearms. I think we need a solid handle on the mental health status of the US citizenry, regardless of age really. It should be akin to a yearly dental exam, except actually followed by people.
 
You dont have to be 18 to legally carry a firearm. You can take a junior hunting class and go hunting with adult supervision at 14 or maybe younger depending on state hunting laws.
 
  • Ban all guns except registered pistols and real* hunting rifles. - no. The NFA already bans the weapons that should be banned/controlled. No registration of firearms.
  • No large clips/magazines for pistols or rifles.* - Define large
  • One registered pistol and two registered hunting rifles per person. You get a title for each gun. - no
  • Limit amount of ammunition you can purchase per month.* - limit it to what?
  • Buy back programs for them, after 2 years it would be a felony to own an unregistered gun without title unless you have a special permit (rare.) - buy back OK, no registration
  • No gun show sales - no
  • Private sales illegal without transfer of gun title. - no
  • No silencers - why not. They're already heavily regulated.
  • No gun modifications "adapters" that increase amount of ammo or fire rate. - OK
  • No open carry on our streets at all period. - I don't open carry and I think anyone who does is an idiot so I don't care.
  • No concealed carry unless you have a damn good reason. BS. If you can get through the rest of the checks you should be able to CC. All states should be "shall issue".
  • No immediate gun purchases. - OK. 3 days.
  • Complete background check. OK.
  • 10 day waiting list. - too long
  • Impeach Trump - you're a fucking idiot.
  • I don't care if your Annie Oakley before you purchase a gun you first have to take a firearm safety class. - OK
 
Ok we have posters here saying we need to find out where the system failed.

While I can understand what you're saying, if this was an isolated incident, we could be asking that. Unfortunately this happens too much to say that the system we have now failed. With the how often this happens it shows that our system as a whole is worthless. It's not a kink in the system, our system as a whole does not work. We need to change the way guns and ammo are sold and regulated. What we have now does not work.

If you are fine with not changing how we regulate firearms then you are fine with keeping this cycle of children being murdered.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
Now we're talking about background checks, primarily mental health based, which we have a common ground to stand on. I would fully endorse full mental health screening of all young adults, even beyond simply to buy firearms. I think we need a solid handle on the mental health status of the US citizenry, regardless of age really. It should be akin to a yearly dental exam, except actually followed by people.
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That's basically what I've always been saying I just got caught up calling out the constant deflection. Gun restriction doesn't mean any one specific thing, I think there needs to be some and one of those is background checks. I also think we need federal regulation to go above state laws. What good is the law if you can drive 100 miles to get around it? Regulation isn't any one specific aspect IMO. It can't ever be talked about though it seems.
 
So something fun. My college just sent out a text message saying there was an active shooter, gave a description and said the campus was on lock down. It had Test starting the message and ending the message, but someone fucked up. There was a lag, then call, multiple text messages, emails. I'm going to not take my test today and do it later. I'm not sure I could focus today.
 
I think background checks are very ineffective. You can just buy a weapon second hand, borrow it, or steal it. It just makes it harder for honest people to purchase a firearm. Criminals have no problems getting guns.
 
brandonbull said:
Another round of whataboutism?
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...I'm not entirely sure if it counts when one is responding to someone's comment that is based on an entirely invented, unsubstantiated premise. You said something demonstrably stupid, yet comfortably fanciful for yourself, obviously, and I simply pointed out the potential origins of your current fantasy-driven reality.

think about it this way:

brandonbull: "Whatabout vikings!"
zinfamous: "Whatabout you?"
brandonbull: "hey, you can't whatabout!" 😡
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
Now we're talking about background checks, primarily mental health based, which we have a common ground to stand on. I would fully endorse full mental health screening of all young adults, even beyond simply to buy firearms. I think we need a solid handle on the mental health status of the US citizenry, regardless of age really. It should be akin to a yearly dental exam, except actually followed by people.
Click to expand...

So should background checks include school records, social services records (for minors) including disciplinary records? I think that would make sense. But how do we standardize that across states and school districts? How do we ensure that data is secured and isn't misused? Who would be responsible for maintaining the data? More importantly, who gets to decide the criteria for passing or failing a background check? Would there be a statute of limitations on doing stupid shit in grade school that would keep you ineligible from buying a gun as an adult?
 
zerocool84 said:
Ok we have posters here saying we need to find out where the system failed.

While I can understand what you're saying, if this was an isolated incident, we could be asking that. Unfortunately this happens too much to say that the system we have now failed. With the how often this happens it shows that our system as a whole is worthless. It's not a kink in the system, our system as a whole does not work. We need to change the way guns and ammo are sold and regulated. What we have now does not work.

If you are fine with not changing how we regulate firearms then you are fine with keeping this cycle of children being murdered.
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Statistically speaking, it is isolated. These incidents are horrific, but even if we had 5 a day, that'd represent less than 2k individuals committing these acts per year, which represents approximately %0.0015 of US households per year. I won't bother to run the numbers on other fatality types (intended or unintended).
 
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