Florida High School Shooting

[K1052]

I'm not saying you could, that's absurd. I'm pointing out the fact that most sporting goods stores carry weapons more than capable of doing this, that aren't 'AR-15's' or even stylistically similar to an AR-15. AR-15 has ended up just becoming a common weapon type, before that was AK-47's. I'm sure in another decade or two it'll be some other LETTER-NUMBER. Unless you're going to fight the good fight, and ban every non-bolt action rifle (have fun with that one) you're just spinning your wheels focusing on a specific weapon type.

These weapons are picked because they're cheap. They're cheap because of economies of scale, because like 10% of the US owns one.

Ban all semi-auto firearms and anything that simulates semi-auto fire.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

We have a problem.

On this I agree. We have a mental health problem, we have a governmental stagnation problem, we have a failure of prioritization problem, and we have a societal rift problem.

 

[HomerJS]

I just heard the shooter was actively being treated for mental illness. Problem is the law in Florida and most states still allowed this guy to buy an AR-15.

Republicans always claim its not guns its mental illness but they never take the next step. Separate the mentally incapable from guns.

And so with that we have, do nothing.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Ban all semi-auto firearms and anything that simulates semi-auto fire.

Feel free to carry the flag, you'll get some followers, but I seriously doubt you'll see this happen in your lifetime in the US. Just being frank.

Short of an authoritarian governmental intervention, I do not see this happening without a fight. I personally know people who would die before letting someone take their beloved guns away.

 

[luv2liv]

with a name like Cruz.... should i laugh when our con man in chief propose that the killer gets deported? his whole family gets deported? or just deport all Hispanics?

 

[K1052]

Feel free to carry the flag, you'll get some followers, but I seriously doubt you'll see this happen in your lifetime in the US. Just being frank.

Short of an authoritarian governmental intervention, I do not see this happening without a fight. I personally know people who would die before letting someone take their beloved guns away.

There might be a few people sure but a lot of those firearms belong to a tiny percentage of the population. I am included in that statistic as the owner of about two dozen semi-auto weapons.

If the government decided to ban them and let me cash out via a buyback I'd have no issues.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

There might be a few people sure but a lot of those firearms belong to a tiny percentage of the population. I am included in that statistic as the owner of about two dozen semi-auto weapons.

If the government decided to ban them and let me cash out via a buyback I'd have no issues.

Nor would I, but we're (probably) rational mammals, there's plenty of irrational owners that would go down fighting, and you know that. Are you prepared for youtube videos and Faux news exclusives of firefights on front lawns?

 

[Muse]

Nothing could have prevented this.

You mean that? Or are you really a jackass?

"There is absolutely no inevitability as long as there is a willingness to contemplate what is happening."

Many tragedies have been averted. This one wasn't. Others will be. We can make a difference, we better make a difference if we give a shit.,

 

[K1052]

Nor would I, but we're (probably) rational mammals, there's plenty of irrational owners that would go down fighting, and you know that. Are you prepared for youtube videos and Faux news exclusives of firefights on front lawns?

I am. There will surely be incidents but the vast majority of people would fold quickly.

 

[Muse]

Is there anyway to control guns to help reduce things like this?

Yeah, make it illegal to own them. You'll find out that there are fewer and fewer and fewer of them out there over time. What use is a gun to someone who's going to jail when outed?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I am. There will surely be incidents but the vast majority of people would fold quickly.

Would you be willing to accept the consequence of someone else getting an idea in their head that a similar tact needs to be taken regarding something other than guns? Like specific religious beliefs?

I'm concerned about the potential of 'it was okay for that, so it'll be okay for this too'.

 

[Muse]

I personally know people who would die before letting someone take their beloved guns away.

Yeah, well, fuck them. Make it illegal for them to own those guns and what good would it do them? They can secretly show people their guns and rot in their infamy over time. Relics of a bygone age. Or, if you just need to see and handle them, you can be put in special purpose museums... here, pet a gun, nice gun.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yeah, well, fuck them. Make it illegal for them to own those guns and what good would it do them? They can secretly show people their guns and rot in their infamy over time. Relics of a bygone age. Or, if you just need to see and handle them, you can be put in special purpose museums... here, pet a gun, nice gun.

My question to you is similar to that to K1052:

Would you be willing to accept a scenario in which another administration, politician, whatever, decides that now X, Y, or Z needs similar treatment, and drags whatever that happens to be kicking and screaming out of their homes as well? I have huge concerns that once the Pandora's box of 'forced compliance' is opened, you aren't gonna shut it just because the 'gun problem' was fixed.

 

[Muse]

Would you be willing to accept the consequence of someone else getting an idea in their head that a similar tact needs to be taken regarding something other than guns? Like specific religious beliefs?

I'm concerned about the potential of 'it was okay for that, so it'll be okay for this too'.

Yeah, right. How about nuclear material? Anthrax? A private stash of polio or smallpox virus? How dangerous to ban things? Get real.

 

[K1052]

Would you be willing to accept the consequence of someone else getting an idea in their head that a similar tact needs to be taken regarding something other than guns? Like specific religious beliefs?

I'm concerned about the potential of 'it was okay for that, so it'll be okay for this too'.

I don't think the comparison applies since the government clearly has authority based on law and precedent to regulate firearms. Even in the Heller decision the Supreme Court held that the 2A is not an unlimited right and is subject to restriction.

1A question you pose is also long settled as to prohibiting/restricting the practice of religious beliefs, the gov can't as long as no law is broken.

 

[Muse]

My question to you is similar to that to K1052:

Would you be willing to accept a scenario in which another administration, politician, whatever, decides that now X, Y, or Z needs similar treatment, and drags whatever that happens to be kicking and screaming out of their homes as well? I have huge concerns that once the Pandora's box of 'forced compliance' is opened, you aren't gonna shut it just because the 'gun problem' was fixed.

Dude, some things just need controlling, you can't let people do whatever in the hell they want all of the time, get over it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why does AT P&N seem to attract the 6% of NRA members (5% of the overall public) that doesn’t support more background checks?

 

[K1052]

My question to you is similar to that to K1052:

Would you be willing to accept a scenario in which another administration, politician, whatever, decides that now X, Y, or Z needs similar treatment, and drags whatever that happens to be kicking and screaming out of their homes as well? I have huge concerns that once the Pandora's box of 'forced compliance' is opened, you aren't gonna shut it just because the 'gun problem' was fixed.

Can you manufacture, own, and sell NFA devices out of your house? If you did would you expect the ATF to come a nocking?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I don't think the comparison applies since the government clearly has authority based on law and precedent to regulate firearms. Even in the Heller decision the Supreme Court held that the 2A is not an unlimited right and is subject to restriction.

1A question you pose is also long settled as to prohibiting/restricting the practice of religious beliefs, the gov can't as long as no law is broken.

And that may be enough to set an acceptable precedent for outright removal of semi-auto firearms without extending to other areas of life... I've still got huge concerns surrounding it however, but that's just me.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Dune, some things just need controlling, you can't let people do whatever in the hell they want all of the time, get over it.

I never said they did, that would likely result in some Mad Max anarchist state. I was just stating I have concerns about the potential of forced compliance in this fashion being expanded elsewhere (see: Trump's notions on immigration/foreigners in the US).

 

[dank69]

They try to create barriers but really, unless we tear down and rebuild all schools as super max prisons, gunmen will still easily find their way inside.

Yeah I think I just misread the backpack line as "he is allowed on campus but not allowed to carry a backpack" when it was really "when he was a student he wasn't allowed to have a backpack."

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Can you manufacture, own, and sell NFA devices out of your house? If you did would you expect the ATF to come a nocking?

Most likely, yes, as you would if you started collecting radioactive materials or started placing anti-personnel mines around your home.

The cat's kinda out of the bag regarding semi-auto firearms though.

 

[realibrad]

Yeah, make it illegal to own them. You'll find out that there are fewer and fewer and fewer of them out there over time. What use is a gun to someone who's going to jail when outed?

There is a problem with just trying to ban them in this country. We have a culture built around guns, and they are everywhere. If you ban them overnight, you will see many turn them in, but then you will likely see a rise in gun related crimes in some things. Home invasion I would bet would go way up.

We first and foremost have a culture problem. If you want to ban guns, you need to first regulate the shit out of them over time to reduce the numbers, then you can consider banning them.

 

[K1052]

Most likely, yes, as you would if you started collecting radioactive materials or started placing anti-personnel mines around your home.

The cat's kinda out of the bag regarding semi-auto firearms though.

It's entirely possible to put the cat back in the back if we decided to IMO. I think the number of people who would actually cause trouble is very very very small. It sometimes feels like more if you spend much time at the range or in stores because they naturally are in those places anyway but not as a proportion of the overall population.

 

[KMFJD]

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/ki...da-thoughts-prayers-tweet-much-money-took-nra

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