Florida High School Shooting

Page 102 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
When we're talking about preventing deaths, I don't think anyone should have to explain that a death due to murder is not the same thing as a death due to clogged arteries. It's implicitly obvious.

That having been said, I do think we spend too much time and energy worrying over terrorism and mass murder. I get why they have a negative impact on the public which is not strictly proportional to the number of deaths caused but our focus on them is vastly disproportionate to the risk.

I'm not much in favor of gun control by the way. All I would do is strengthen background checks. I'm just tired of the stupid analogies and inconsistent reasoning I keep hearing from the right. Anyone constantly whining about Islamic terrorism has no business arguing that deaths due to cigarettes are more important than deaths due to gun violence.

A reasonable person looks at both the overall risk (severity * likelihood) of a problem and the potential costs/benefits to fixing said problem. Yes, terrorism isn't a huge issue when judged by the risk levels but if you can make some trivial change that doesn't impact the rights of a lot of people then sure you do it to reduce that small risk. For the terrorist example, going to war isn't a trivial change but saying if you're a known terrorist you can't open a bank account in the U.S. isn't going to impact the civil liberties of 300 million people. Likewise the overall risk of a mass shooting event is low (high severity but low probability of occurring in aggregate) and the data show the perpetrators aren't equally distributed among the entire U.S. population (nor are the weapons used broadly representative of the entire universe of firearms) so solutions should likewise be lightweight to be appropriate to the risk. Completely removing all firearms from the nation (absent shotguns) without any consideration of whether they'd be used (or even useful) for a mass shooting or typical homicide is ridiculous. Going back to the terrorism example it's closer to rounding up every Muslim and putting them in concentration camps like we did to Japanese-Americans during WW2. Revolvers aren't used in mass shootings. Low caliber rifles aren't used in mass shootings, nor are high caliber rifles typically used for a large game hunting. No one is using a .454 Casull in mass shootings, nor a squirrel gun. Likewise gang members aren't using $4,000 Olympic match shooting guns.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
Trump is broadcasting another round-table discussion on gun control and school safety today.

Let me repeat: a Republican President is holding, and broadcasting, discussions with lawmakers about gun control and school safety.

Granted, Trump is being extremely combative and acting like a child on live TV, but that plays well for Democrats as well.

I predicted a red letter day for Democrats this morning, and so far Trump has delivered.
It’s like watching the crazy uncle at thanksgiving.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,447
106
Well if that's the case then why are you so against non-politicians offering their ideas?
LOL! By non-politicians you mean Taj? Taj is a piece of shit with no humanity in his thought processes. He is morally bankrupt. His "solutions" come from ugliness and stupidity. Now, of course he can voice them but then I will swoop in and remind him that he's soulless, loathsome idiot.

*His ideas include arming teachers and throwing grenades at kids. It's only right to dismiss him.

*Also, non-politicians "offering ideas" doesn't change the fact that the people elected by the people and paid by the people should serve the people by fixing what the people want fixed. It is their job after all. Instead they treat their positions as though they are cock sucking whores offering their cock holsters to the highest bidders. The NRA among others have big dicks but the whores are pushing the gagging and choking on 'em to the people and moisturizing with the jizz.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sheik Yerbouti

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,395
10,705
136

I wouldn't celebrate such token gestures just yet. You need to see the data. It takes a magnifying glass to see the subject that bump stocks apply to. Even if we make mass shootings more difficult. We need to address the remaining 99% of annual gun deaths.

Gun Deaths: 33,636
Mass Shootings: 502 (1%)




786_post-01.jpg
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,256
4,930
136
I wonder when Weird Al will rewrite Janie's got a gun for this? Will hot for teacher take on a new meaning? Stay tuned for this and much more on as our sad world turns.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Younigue

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,395
10,705
136
This shitstain of a human is our president. 60,000,000+ people wanted him as president. What the fuck has happened to this country? What the actual fuck happened?

Lack of proper run off elections. He never would have survived the primary, let alone the general.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,407
136
There is a lot that could possibly go wrong. I'm also curious what the liability landscape looks like for this. Districts can self insure but what happens if there is an incident and people are inadvertently wounded or killed by an employee with a firearm. Or a staff owned firearm is lost and used in a crime.

Needless to say this is not going to be a popular suggestion in a lot of places.

Even Little Marco says it’s a bad idea to have a SWAT team show up and try to figure out who is the shooter and who is a teacher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaskalas

rise

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
9,116
46
91
Guys, this is going viral (powerful speech from dad of victim): https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/politics/trump-listening-sessions-parkland-students/index.html

This is the first time in a long time I think we're going to see some serious gun control laws enacted soon.

Trump sat there like a monkey and spouted some NRA talking points before sitting there stunned in silence when that dad spoke.
First I saw of those kids I said this will be a civil rights type movement, although some thought I meant violenct but its evident we will be able to make a change this time. These kids across the country and their parents are motivating a LOT of people who are sick of this nonsense and inaction. The lies being fed to us year after year as people die. Cops, kids, parents friends, family- dying to protect an amendment any honest person would say need either major reform or just "blow it up".

An trumpo looks like hell, them nra boys must have their way with him ALL night!
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,728
48,385
136
Lack of proper run off elections. He never would have survived the primary, let alone the general.

The US voting and electoral process needs a massive overhaul if we ever want to have something resembling a functional national government again.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,759
2,086
136
And this is just some more deflection. There will be people that argue for any viewpoint, that shouldn't prevent conversation and ideas to just be ignored because "some people" think something else. Still haven't answered by original post of why it should be so damn easy to buy a gun and not some more regulation around it. Because you can deflect isn't a response.
Yes I did, it's because buying a firearm is a right...a Right, not a privilege.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IJTSSG

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Yes I did, it's because buying a firearm is a right...a Right, not a privilege.

So here is a time when I can break your argument down to the abstraction. If slavery which was a right was abolished, why should this right be upheld. Something currently being a right does not validate that it should stay a right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Younigue
Jul 9, 2009
10,759
2,086
136
So here is a time when I can break your argument down to the abstraction. If slavery which was a right was abolished, why should this right be upheld. Something currently being a right does not validate that it should stay a right.
You're welcome to try to change it legally at any time, the Constitution included steps for doing it. Good luck.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Yes I did, it's because buying a firearm is a right...a Right, not a privilege.
Ask any one of millions of US citizens who can't pass a 4473 if buying a firearm is a right or a privilege.

There have always been restrictions on who can purchase a firearm, and we're simply looking to make that list of restrictions longer. Much longer ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Younigue
Jul 9, 2009
10,759
2,086
136
Ask any one of millions of US citizens who can't pass a 4473 if buying a firearm is a right or a privilege.

There have always been restrictions on who can purchase a firearm, and we're simply looking to make that list of restrictions longer. Much longer ;)
I'm sure your weapon prohibition will be just as successful as all the previous ones.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
You're welcome to try to change it legally at any time, the Constitution included steps for doing it. Good luck.

Then I think you misunderstood the question. He asked why we should be able to buy a gun so easily and why should we not regulate it more. You answered why its not, but he asked why should we. Yours is a present tense response to a future tense question.

See what I'm saying? Right now a lot of people want to further regulate the right, and you seem to be responding with the answer we can't regulate it because its a right. Rights can be regulated so there is disconnect with what is being asked and what you are responding with.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
I'm sure your weapon prohibition will be just as successful as all the previous ones.

They have worked pretty fucking well with machine guns. Are you going to deny that? If they worked with machine guns, they will work with handguns just as well.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
This day just keeps getting better. Reddit's largest gun-related subreddit is in full on revolt over Trump today :p

L5urvdy.jpg
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,969
592
136
You're welcome to try to change it legally at any time, the Constitution included steps for doing it. Good luck.

Per who? Not the supreme court, not even per a conservative justice like Scalia was. Go read DC vs Heller ... You can't give a blanket statement like that. Just like the first amendment doesn't give me the right to go into a crowded store and yell fire. Nor does it give me the right to make false statements of fact, though that one is a huge gray line, otherwise your poster boy would be in jail.

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose

So again, you haven't made a good argument.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,395
10,705
136
First I saw of those kids I said this will be a civil rights type movement, although some thought I meant violenct but its evident we will be able to make a change this time. These kids across the country and their parents are motivating a LOT of people who are sick of this nonsense and inaction. The lies being fed to us year after year as people die. Cops, kids, parents friends, family- dying to protect an amendment any honest person would say need either major reform or just "blow it up".

An trumpo looks like hell, them nra boys must have their way with him ALL night!

#BLM should be all over this. The prevalence of guns is the whole reason cops shoot first and ask questions later.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,245
136
A reasonable person looks at both the overall risk (severity * likelihood) of a problem and the potential costs/benefits to fixing said problem. Yes, terrorism isn't a huge issue when judged by the risk levels but if you can make some trivial change that doesn't impact the rights of a lot of people then sure you do it to reduce that small risk. For the terrorist example, going to war isn't a trivial change but saying if you're a known terrorist you can't open a bank account in the U.S. isn't going to impact the civil liberties of 300 million people. Likewise the overall risk of a mass shooting event is low (high severity but low probability of occurring in aggregate) and the data show the perpetrators aren't equally distributed among the entire U.S. population (nor are the weapons used broadly representative of the entire universe of firearms) so solutions should likewise be lightweight to be appropriate to the risk. Completely removing all firearms from the nation (absent shotguns) without any consideration of whether they'd be used (or even useful) for a mass shooting or typical homicide is ridiculous. Going back to the terrorism example it's closer to rounding up every Muslim and putting them in concentration camps like we did to Japanese-Americans during WW2. Revolvers aren't used in mass shootings. Low caliber rifles aren't used in mass shootings, nor are high caliber rifles typically used for a large game hunting. No one is using a .454 Casull in mass shootings, nor a squirrel gun. Likewise gang members aren't using $4,000 Olympic match shooting guns.

If you're concerned about what a "reasonable person" looks at, then you might want to look at how political conservatives in general, and Trump supporters especially, prioritize things. Trump campaigned first on banning all Muslims from entering the country, later suggested that we register all Muslims the way the Nazis registered all Jews, then after elected, he focused on a selective ban of immigrants from certain Muslim countries. He also doesn't want to admit any refugees from war torn countries like Syria, claiming that they pose a significant terrorist risk. Islamic terrorists kill at most about 100 people a year in this country. Yet recent polls show that republican voters place terrorism as the single most important issue in America today.

And Trump's rationale for building a wall which will cost tens of billions in tax payer money by any reasonable estimate - we are constantly told that illegal immigrants are responsible for terrible crimes in this country even though it appears that they commit violent crimes at no greater rate than citizens. Don't even bother making economic arguments against illegal immigration because if these arguments stood up on their own, there'd be no need to fear monger over crime and terrorism, would there?

The fact is, conservatives consistently prioritize any problems they think are caused by people who are either a) non-white, or b) non-Christian, and accordingly they are very easily manipulated by shysters like Trump.

If you think liberals are being irrational in putting too much emphasis on the impact of mass shootings, you might want to look at cleaning up your own backyard first because there are some very serious problems there. At least the liberals who are passionate about gun control aren't focusing only on targeting certain disfavored sub-groups. They may be misguided in their reasoning and cost-benefit analysis, but at least they aren't being hateful pieces of crap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: soundforbjt

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,447
106
First I saw of those kids I said this will be a civil rights type movement, although some thought I meant violenct but its evident we will be able to make a change this time. These kids across the country and their parents are motivating a LOT of people who are sick of this nonsense and inaction. The lies being fed to us year after year as people die. Cops, kids, parents friends, family- dying to protect an amendment any honest person would say need either major reform or just "blow it up".

An trumpo looks like hell, them nra boys must have their way with him ALL night!
Are you suggesting his pucker hole has seen better days? Couldn't happen to a better guy. Though I would have thought little big man Puti had wrecked it long ago.