Floor Sanding Madness

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
8
81
The two upstairs rooms in our craptastic cape cod need to be sanded, they had hideous carpet when we moved in, and the floor underneath is an old pine floor, looks like it was finished or mostly finished at sometime, but either a large rug was used or they didn't finish it out to the edges.

Plan for weekend - rent sander, buy sandpaper, go through three grits, clean up, put down 47 coats of poly, sleep?


Any protips?
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,762
13,101
146
Better yet, rent a floor buffer and glue sandpaper to the bottom and just stand on top and ride it around.

Drive your riding mower up the stairs...install sanding disks on the mower attachment...and just rock out...:p


I've never had to sand a floor, but when I was a kid, my parents did it a couple of times. REAL PITA to get right.

Your house is gonna be full of dust from this. Not much chance of getting around that.

Be careful not to sand too deeply. Not only may you leave depressions in the flooring, but depending on what was used, you may sand through the veneer.
 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
81
I'd say drop to 2 grits. The heaviest grit's VERY aggressive and might be overkill, especially on pine. Get some practice with the fine grit before going to the medium - get a feel for the sander and how it pulls.

I've refinished hardwood floors in 2 homes now, and after quickly discovering heavy was... HEAVY... all I needed was medium and fine, and both homes had VERY hard, old, red oak floors.

Sand with the grain of the wood, not against.

You'll find that the large floor sanders can be tough to get against the walls, and you can back yourself into corners pretty easily. I liked to start at the ends of the room (at the walls) and work to the center, and let my 'sanded' paths meet in the center.

Good luck :)
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
8
81
I'd say drop to 2 grits. The heaviest grit's VERY aggressive and might be overkill, especially on pine. Get some practice with the fine grit before going to the medium - get a feel for the sander and how it pulls.

I've refinished hardwood floors in 2 homes now, and after quickly discovering heavy was... HEAVY... all I needed was medium and fine, and both homes had VERY hard, old, red oak floors.

Sand with the grain of the wood, not against.

You'll find that the large floor sanders can be tough to get against the walls, and you can back yourself into corners pretty easily. I liked to start at the ends of the room (at the walls) and work to the center, and let my 'sanded' paths meet in the center.

Good luck :)

thanks, sounds good to me. Did you use an edger for the walls or could I get away with a small orbital? Need to do the kickplates on the stairs going up with an orbital and just stupidly thought of using that instead of an edger.
 

Rage187

Lifer
Dec 30, 2000
14,276
4
81
Pine, ouch. That stuff will gum up paper like crazy so get good at changing it. Might be smarter to hire out.
 

Jesusthewererabbit

Senior member
Mar 20, 2008
934
0
76
Ouch. Pine floors are a pain. It is not, repeat, not a hardwood, and will scuff and scratch every time you move something. It can be beautiful, but be careful with it.

My parents redid two bedrooms and a hallway in their old house after ripping out carpet and discovering a beautiful oak floor. They did it with a medium sized belt sander and kneepads. I'm glad I wasn't there.
 

rhino56

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2004
2,325
1
0
i used to sand floors for work, do you have any specific questions? general advice would be get one of those big square pad sanders and not a drum unless you have a lot of experience running a drum sander.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,844
2,369
126
Im a carpet fan. Stick with carpets. If you insist on the hardwood thing, go cheap and easy laminate.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
8
81
Pine, ouch. That stuff will gum up paper like crazy so get good at changing it. Might be smarter to hire out.

Thought about it, got two quotes one at 800, another at 960 using a water based poly(less fumes etc). It is two rectangular rooms with midget closests upstairs(kneewalls etc) one is 17 x 10, the other is 15 x 10.

i used to sand floors for work, do you have any specific questions? general advice would be get one of those big square pad sanders and not a drum unless you have a lot of experience running a drum sander.

Anything specific to pine to know? I'm going to check around at lowes and home depot to make sure they have a vibrating or orbital sander, I figure the drum is just a bad idea my pregnant wife certainly isn't going to help me carry it upstairs.

Any good brands or things to look for in the stain/polyurethane? Extra layers for pine to help somewhat with durability. It's a 1950's house, oak on the main floor, currently vinyl in the kitchen, tile in the addition/greatroom and pine upstairs. I think the stairs going up are red pine and I need to figure out some way to address some cracks in them someday.
 

Wyndru

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2009
7,318
4
76
I'd say drop to 2 grits. The heaviest grit's VERY aggressive and might be overkill, especially on pine. Get some practice with the fine grit before going to the medium - get a feel for the sander and how it pulls.

This is really important, and excellent advice that I wish I had when we did ours. We had a rotary style sander, and also a drum style. We didn't really practice in a small area with either, and soon realized that the drum sander was really leaving some dips in the floor.

We realized after one room, but I wish we had started slower and got used to the sanders before doing the whole room. We had to go back and even it all out, which took a while, and stripped off more of the flooring than we intended.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
8
81
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Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
As said don;t use a heavy grit for pine.

Also thin out the poly a little. Will help it spread out and dry more even.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,381
310
126
I fully agree with skipping the coarse grade and starting with medium. And with the advice to practice with fine first. What is hard to recognize as you begin with medium is that the fine paper stage will take a LOT longer. You need the medium grade to sand off the worst, but stop and go to fine BEFORE you get all of the old color stains off. Basically, when you switch to fine, you are going to try to sand off all of the "high spots" down to the level of the bottom of the fine grooves made by the medium grit before it. Since the "high spots" are really about 90 percent of the surface area, that's a lot of sanding. So start that process early, because it will take off all of the last bits of old discoloration that are included in those "high spots".

I used a drum sander for the major portion, and a rotary edge sander for the edges. Rotary sanders do NOT sand with the grain and so leave odd marks, so you want to keep their use to edges only. A big rotary sander will be much faster than a small orbital sander, though. But I certainly can see the need for a small orbital in tight spaces like stair steps and corners. IMPORTANT: when using a drum sander NEVER stop in one place. It will sand down a groove really quickly. Start it with the drum raised off the floor, slowly lower it down while also moving the sander forward so that it does not land hard, and does not sand in one place. At the end of the run, keep it moving and raise it from the floor before moving the sander to a new spot. IF you have a really bad area that needs a lot of sanding, consider doing the first round at a 45 degree angle to the wood grain, then proceed to sanding strictly WITH the grain for all the rest of the work.

As Marlin1975 suggested, adding a little solvent (maybe 10 percent) to the varnish to thin it may help. This is especially a good idea for the first coat of varnish, which you actually WANT to have penetrate into the wood somewhat, rather like a "primer coat". In fact, the very open and absorbent bare wood surface will rapidly "steal" the liquid solvent part of the varnish so that it dries too fast, unless you give it extra solvent. Subsequent coats probably don't need extra thinning unless you feel it is drying too fast and failing to "level" (smooth out small wrinkles or wavelets in the surface) before setting up solid.

You have not talked about dust control which is a huge issue. I did these things:

1. I was lucky - I could do the whole job BEFORE we moved into the house, so impact on the family was reduced. Not many have that situation.
2. Block off all air flow points. Cover doors with plastic sheet taped to the frames, close windows to avoid having the wind carry dust around. Block off all hot and cold air heating ducts so dust is not carried out.
3. Get a good vacuum and LOTS of replacement bags. Vacuum up after every session of sanding. Do NOT wait until the bag is full, or even close. The fine dust (ESPECIALLY when using fine grade sanding paper) plugs the pores of the paper bag and it stops sucking. Worst case is if you burst the bag and fill the vacuum's motor with fine dust! So change the bag often.
4. After the last sanding and vacuum, wait 12 - 24 hours and vacuum again.
5. Read up on making and using a "tack rag" when using vanish. (Common old furniture finishing technique) This is a cloth with a little varnish (for stickiness) and some clean solvent worked into it so it is damp. You use it to wipe over the floor surface BEFORE applying the new varnish coat, and it picks up all the really fine little dust still on the floor. As you use it the solvent tends to get used up or evaporate, so you'll need to add a little more from time to time. Store in a closed contained when not is use to avoid too much solvent loss. You may need to throw one out when it's full of dust and prepare another to continue.
6. I put on three varnish coats, and the recommendation at that time was to rough up the previous coat with a light scrub of the surface with a very fine steel wool, just so the new coat had a good surface to bond to. So I did that, then vacuumed up the resulting dust, then used the tack rag cleaner just before applying the next coat.
 
Last edited:

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
8
81
I fully agree with skipping the coarse grade and starting with medium. And with the advice to practice with fine first. What is hard to recognize as you begin with medium is that the fine paper stage will take a LOT longer. You need the medium grade to sand off the worst, but stop and go to fine BEFORE you get all of the old color stains off. Basically, when you switch to fine, you are going to try to sand off all of the "high spots" down to the level of the bottom of the fine grooves made by the medium grit before it. Since the "high spots" are really about 90 percent of the surface area, that's a lot of sanding. So start that process early, because it will take off all of the last bits of old discoloration that are included in those "high spots".

I used a drum sander for the major portion, and a rotary edge sander for the edges. Rotary sanders do NOT sand with the grain and so leave odd marks, so you want to keep their use to edges only. A big rotary sander will be much faster than a small orbital sander, though. But I certainly can see the need for a small orbital in tight spaces like stair steps and corners. IMPORTANT: when using a drum sander NEVER stop in one place. It will sand down a groove really quickly. Start it with the drum raised off the floor, slowly lower it down while also moving the sander forward so that it does not land hard, and does not sand in one place. At the end of the run, keep it moving and raise it from the floor before moving the sander to a new spot. IF you have a really bad area that needs a lot of sanding, consider doing the first round at a 45 degree angle to the wood grain, then proceed to sanding strictly WITH the grain for all the rest of the work.

As Marlin1975 suggested, adding a little solvent (maybe 10 percent) to the varnish to thin it may help. This is especially a good idea for the first coat of varnish, which you actually WANT to have penetrate into the wood somewhat, rather like a "primer coat". In fact, the very open and absorbent bare wood surface will rapidly "steal" the liquid solvent part of the varnish so that it dries too fast, unless you give it extra solvent. Subsequent coats probably don't need extra thinning unless you feel it is drying too fast and failing to "level" (smooth out small wrinkles or wavelets in the surface) before setting up solid.

You have not talked about dust control which is a huge issue. I did these things:

1. I was lucky - I could do the whole job BEFORE we moved into the house, so impact on the family was reduced. Not many have that situation.
2. Block off all air flow points. Cover doors with plastic sheet taped to the frames, close windows to avoid having the wind carry dust around. Block off all hot and cold air heating ducts so dust is not carried out.
3. Get a good vacuum and LOTS of replacement bags. Vacuum up after every session of sanding. Do NOT wait until the bag is full, or even close. The fine dust (ESPECIALLY when using fine grade sanding paper) plugs the pores of the paper bag and it stops sucking. Worst case is if you burst the bag and fill the vacuum's motor with fine dust! So change the bag often.
4. After the last sanding and vacuum, wait 12 - 24 hours and vacuum again.
5. Read up on making and using a "tack rag" when using vanish. (Common old furniture finishing technique) This is a cloth with a little varnish (for stickiness) and some clean solvent worked into it so it is damp. You use it to wipe over the floor surface BEFORE applying the new varnish coat, and it picks up all the really fine little dust still on the floor. As you use it the solvent tends to get used up or evaporate, so you'll need to add a little more from time to time. Store in a closed contained when not is use to avoid too much solvent loss. You may need to throw one out when it's full of dust and prepare another to continue.
6. I put on three varnish coats, and the recommendation at that time was to rough up the previous coat with a light scrub of the surface with a very fine steel wool, just so the new coat had a good surface to bond to. So I did that, then vacuumed up the resulting dust, then used the tack rag cleaner just before applying the next coat.


Thanks for the input!

These are two rooms in the upstairs of a cape code, I have to vents to block off and one return, I was planning on hanging some plastic sheeting outside the door and possibly another at the bottom of the stairs. Wife is going to get kicked out of the house for the weekend at least due to the fumes.

Need to select the varnish soon.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
8
81
Checked out the hardware stores, lowes near me has two machines but no real tool rental(no edge sander). But had what seemed to be a decent poly selsection (minwax, zinsser, varathane), Home depot nearby has a nice tool rental, several drums sanders, a square buff sander, and an orbital(which looked pretty square) according to the tool guy I've dealt with before, the orbital is most forgiving and lightweight, you can get away with going cross grain but is slow and eats up the paper. The square is more in between that and the drum. So I'm leaning towards the square buff, sheets of paper are like $5 each.

Still debating on the edge sander, have two closets to do but would be nice if I could just get away with a small hand orbital. otherwise another $20 to rent the edger for 4 hours. Home depot mostly just had minwax, which the guy who gave me my first estimate kinda put down. Hoping to get to a local paint store(porter) and see what they have for poly. Figuring on a satin or semi-gloss finish. Guessing 2 gallons to do 3 coats. get a lambs wool brush, sand sweep, vacuum, and then brush.

mineral spirits to clean/cut varnish.

Shop vac to vacuum.
 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
81
Sounds like you're on the right path. I went with the drum sander, then a professional orbital (really heavy) for the edges.

I did a satin water based poly (4 or 5 coats, if I recall?) for my first house; 5 years later it seemed like it hadn't worn exceptionally well, so went with oil-based the second time around. No stain either time - I very much like the natural color of the red oak.

I'd suggest using tack rags over a shop vac. Any little piece of crap you miss will be really obvious - and hard to remove - once the finish is down.