Flag's at half staff

[surreal1221]

If I recall, the flag was flown at half staff for the deaths of Bob Hope, and Pope JPII, amongst other individuals who were (in my eyes) not big enough figures to have the flag flown at half staff (call me secular, but I do not see why our flag was flown at half staff for the Pope's death).

Nevertheless, I want to get some inputs from the community here on why it is appropriate for us to have the flag flown at half staff for the death of an American Icon (Hope), and a religious figure (Pope). When we have, usually, one or more members of our armed forces KIA in the occupation of Iraq, or elsewhere in the world in our efforts to uproot the "insurgents." Is that fair?

My thoughts are the following, the flag needs to be flown at half staff whenever a military member, or members, is killed in action. That way ever American will see this symbol, and remember, forced to remember, what cost is being paid by so many.

I have tried to make this thread without any political spin, as I want to hear the honest opinions of everyone here. So let's try to keep it from spinning to the left or the right.

 

[Yossarian]

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[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: surreal1221

My thoughts are the following, the flag needs to be flown at half staff whenever a military member, or members, is killed in action.

So you proposal is the Flag permanently at half staff??? <Shrugs>

 

[NTB]

I agree wholeheartedly. The soldiers deserve that just as much, if not more, than any icon. And I believe that flags are flown at half-staff in a soldier's home town a lot of times when they find out a local man / woman has been KIA. If the feds did it every time a soldier died though, our flag would have been at half-staff, at the very least, for the last several years.

Nate

 

[Stunt]

Putting a flag at half mast is an important ritual and shows a great deal of respect.
Determining when this should be done is a tough decision.

Every time a soldier dies would make the flag half mast almost perminently.
A full mast flag does show optimism and pride, this is also important.

Anyone know who gets to decide this?

 

[sbacpo]

Flying the flag at half-mast is a way to honor someone (the icons you referred to) for their service upon their death. It is usually a "one time " occurence unless further down the road we create a national holiday for them, a memorial, a ship etc. Very rare occurences.

Fallen sodiers are also honored upon their death with funerals, full military honors, etc. We have national holidays where we honor our fallen soldiers such as today, Veterans Day, anniversaries of battles, surrenders, etc.

So to answer your question I think it is appropriate to fly the flag at half mast for icons and not to do it for every death of a military member. There will be no national holiday or continued remembrance for vast majority of these icons whereas there are continued, perpetual remembrances of our fallen soldiers.

 

[surreal1221]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: surreal1221

My thoughts are the following, the flag needs to be flown at half staff whenever a military member, or members, is killed in action.

So you proposal is the Flag permanently at half staff??? <Shrugs>

If that is the circumstance, then yes. It is a stark reminder to those who feel that this is a just cause, or any other cause that we find ourselves in years down the road.

Originally posted by: Stunt
A full mast flag does show optimism and pride, this is also important.

True, but we do not remember those who have fallen enough. Granted, we get Memorial Day, Veteran's Day, but outside of those two days dedicated to our veteran's, and our fallen members of this country society remains disillusioned by the lack of attention given, nationally, to our fallen troops. Local papers will, at times, and hidden outside of the front pages, give 2-3 paragraphs worth of space for a fallen members, and it usually calls the obituary section home. My feelings on this is rather simple, outside of our two primary national holidays for our troops, and fallen comrades, our society remains untouched day to day of the lives that are, that can be, lost during a conflict.

If it were me, which in the future it may be, that died serving this country, I would expect the same courtesy that is given to an entertainment icon, as well as a religious icon. I would expect it to be merely an extention of a simple thank you from the Nation, as opposed to a military funeral and $250,000 worth of life insurance to my beneficiary. Personally, I would take the flag flown at half staff in my honor, and a Nation knowing that one of their own has gone on, than the quarter of a million or a military funeral (Just me ofcourse, so purely not significant to this thread, just voicing my opinion).

Originally posted by: sbacpo
There will be no national holiday or continued remembrance for vast majority of these icons whereas there are continued, perpetual remembrances of our fallen soldiers.

This sure is a depressing subject. Unfortunately, well fortunately in my eyes, I feel it is one that deserves just this tiny bit of attention. Yes we have Memorial Day, and Veteran's day. But outside of that, our country does not recognize our fallen troops as frequently that is needed (IMHO). It is easier to forget about our fallen members on the 363 days of the year, and remember them only on 2 days out of the year. It is easier on society, it is easier for society to ignore the issue of us losing extremely experience military members on a day in and day out occurence. I ask you this, everyday when you wake up, and you go about your business, and you return home and fall asleep only to awake to another day. Do you always think at least once about the fallen troops? Sure you see the yellow support our troop magnets, but do you honestly reflect on how many deaths there have been for a single day? Does it click on the number that have fallen? Our flag is a very strong symbol, evident after the 9/11 attacks, when they were dime a dozen, and patriotism was strong. Now say we lower that flag to half staff, and leave it there for a day. Should there be another death on the following day, then it remains. If we go one day without a lose, America will notice, and if we do not, America will notice.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: surreal1221

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: surreal1221

My thoughts are the following, the flag needs to be flown at half staff whenever a military member, or members, is killed in action.

So you proposal is the Flag permanently at half staff??? <Shrugs>

If that is the circumstance, then yes. It is a stark reminder to those who feel that this is a just cause, or any other cause that we find ourselves in years down the road.

Originally posted by: Stunt
A full mast flag does show optimism and pride, this is also important.

True, but we do not remember those who have fallen enough. Granted, we get Memorial Day, Veteran's Day, but outside of those two days dedicated to our veteran's, and our fallen members of this country society remains disillusioned by the lack of attention given, nationally, to our fallen troops. Local papers will, at times, and hidden outside of the front pages, give 2-3 paragraphs worth of space for a fallen members, and it usually calls the obituary section home. My feelings on this is rather simple, outside of our two primary national holidays for our troops, and fallen comrades, our society remains untouched day to day of the lives that are, that can be, lost during a conflict.

If it were me, which in the future it may be, that died serving this country, I would expect the same courtesy that is given to an entertainment icon, as well as a religious icon. I would expect it to be merely an extention of a simple thank you from the Nation, as opposed to a military funeral and $250,000 worth of life insurance to my beneficiary. Personally, I would take the flag flown at half staff in my honor, and a Nation knowing that one of their own has gone on, than the quarter of a million or a military funeral (Just me ofcourse, so purely not significant to this thread, just voicing my opinion).

Originally posted by: sbacpo
There will be no national holiday or continued remembrance for vast majority of these icons whereas there are continued, perpetual remembrances of our fallen soldiers.

This sure is a depressing subject. Unfortunately, well fortunately in my eyes, I feel it is one that deserves just this tiny bit of attention. Yes we have Memorial Day, and Veteran's day. But outside of that, our country does not recognize our fallen troops as frequently that is needed (IMHO). It is easier to forget about our fallen members on the 363 days of the year, and remember them only on 2 days out of the year. It is easier on society, it is easier for society to ignore the issue of us losing extremely experience military members on a day in and day out occurence. I ask you this, everyday when you wake up, and you go about your business, and you return home and fall asleep only to awake to another day. Do you always think at least once about the fallen troops? Sure you see the yellow support our troop magnets, but do you honestly reflect on how many deaths there have been for a single day? Does it click on the number that have fallen? Our flag is a very strong symbol, evident after the 9/11 attacks, when they were dime a dozen, and patriotism was strong. Now say we lower that flag to half staff, and leave it there for a day. Should there be another death on the following day, then it remains. If we go one day without a lose, America will notice, and if we do not, America will notice.

if everyday were a day of reflection, i doubt that any reflection would get done. not that a lot of reflection appears to occur as it stands now with only a few days selected...but to have it every day would probably de-value the recognition for the vast majority of americans.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: surreal1221
I do not see why our flag was flown at half staff for the Pope's death.

Besides being an important world leader, the Pope is also technically a Head of State. It's done out of respect - we'd do the same if it were Queen Elizabeth II.

the flag needs to be flown at half staff whenever a military member, or members, is killed in action.

The US pays its respects to servicemen and women, veterans, and family members in a variety of ways - some public, some very private: From service awards, to posthumous honors; state recognitions; state cemetaries; memorial monuments; honor guards; burial ceremonies; child support, financial aid, counseling and scholarships for dependents and survivors... etc etc etc...

Lowering the flag to half-mast on all government buildings, offices and military bases for each and every wartime casualty would be ridiculous, and would lessen the intended significance of the event to the level of a trivial matter.

State honors aren't awarded on a "sliding scale". Because one life is honored one way, and another life is honored differently, doesn't mean that the State has declared one life any more or less "important" than the next. Flying our flag at half-mast simply a way to reflect that person's lifetime contribution to this country, and symbolically recognize that contribution at an appropriate level. World leaders, Heads of State, and other cultural, spiritual, political leaders identified by executive order are potential candidates for this type of honor.

That way ever American will see this symbol, and remember, forced to remember, what cost is being paid by so many.

Whether you are for or against the war and/or current administration, I don't believe there is any question as to the "value" of human life involved. In my opinion, your proposal would trivialize and overly politicize the half-mast flag honor to serve your own perceived "lack of public perception" of the human cost of war. :thumbsdown:

 

[surreal1221]

Back to the top for the day crew nonsense.

 

[shira]

Is there an exemption for those taking viagra?

 

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: surreal1221
"society remains disillusioned by the lack of attention given, nationally, to our fallen troops."

"outside of our two primary national holidays for our troops, and fallen comrades, our society remains untouched day to day of the lives that are, that can be, lost during a conflict."

So when were you made spokesperson for "society"? Your assumptions regarding the subject are just that, assumptions. - It's my personal feeling that most in "society" feel differently from you but I certainly can't/won't attempt to speak for "society".

I certainly appreciate your respect and honor for our folks serving in the military but your generalizations are distracting to say the least.

 

[Train]

There are *no* rules governing locally flown flags, either the owner of the flag or the postmaster of the local post office/firestation/police, etc or wherever the flag is at decides when to go to half mast and for how long.

When PJP2 died, I noticed only about half the flags in my town were at half mast.

If you have your own flag pole, fly it at half mast as much as you wish.

 

[Vadatajs]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Putting a flag at half mast is an important ritual and shows a great deal of respect.
Determining when this should be done is a tough decision.

Every time a soldier dies would make the flag half mast almost perminently.
A full mast flag does show optimism and pride, this is also important.

Anyone know who gets to decide this?

The Governor, at least in MI.