Fitch credit agency warns about possible US credit downgrade.....

[Ryan]

I cringed reading this. How old are you? I hope for your sake still a teen. The combo of blissfully uninformed + hate for evil republicans leads me to believe so.

lol whut? Do you ever watch the crap that the morons on Fox News spew? Literally every other guest is saying that the debt ceiling won't be a big deal, then the spout off some BS pertaining to our ability to pay the interest on the debt while making it sound like everything will be peachy. Our debt is only ONE of our major obligations - being able to service only that aspect while ignoring others means that we are, in effect, "defaulting" on those other obligations.

If we cross the line and have no borrowing authority, we will have fucked ourselves, and it will be for no good reason. The consequences of confidence loss in the US Dollar and the Federal Reserve will do more immediate harm to our economy than continued borrowing or Obamacare, but Republicans are willing to risk it all. Every economist worth a shit agrees with this. The people who run all of the major world banks and monetary funds do too.

But don't worry, Tea Party Republicans and Fox news talking heads will continue to say otherwise...."It's going to all be A-OK, everyone calm down."

Get a grip and open your eyes.

 

[ivwshane]

So what's the significance of 10/17/2013? Anyone?

 

[Ryan]

So what's the significance of 10/17/2013? Anyone?

The borrowing authority of the Federal Reserve will be reached.

 

[LightPattern]

The international backlash against trust in the US currency isn't limited to a possible credit downgrade. The damage is already being done:

The largest foreign holder of U.S. debt is wondering aloud if it's time to move its money elsewhere. With a congressional stalemate forcing the government of the richest country on earth to check behind the cushions for nickels and dimes to pay its debt, China's leaders think it's time "for the befuddled world to start considering building a de-Americanized world"

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101110571

Great article for those buying into Fox New's talking points.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Every economist worth a shit agrees with this. The people who run all of the major world banks and monetary funds do too.

I think we have found the problem right there. Republicans have become quite apt at dismissing the advice of widely recognized experts in exchange for gut feelings or ideological driven wishful thinking. You could put an Economics professor with a Harvard degree up against some loud mouthed ideologue in an expensive suit, and most Republicans would give more credence to the gut feeling of the latter. Parades of banking executives, treasury officials, IMF officials, etc have all told Congress they are playing with fire, but dumb ass Ted Yoho, who never held elected office before winning his seat, believes his experience as a large animal vet gives him enough credibility to ignore such experts. It's normally humorous to point and laugh at such idiots, until they have their hands on enough levers to bring this country to it's knees.

 

[kage69]

The international backlash against trust in the US currency isn't limited to a possible credit downgrade. The damage is already being done:


http://www.cnbc.com/id/101110571

Great article for those buying into Fox New's talking points.

Yikes. Isn't it amazing that this is where we are? Oh to have adults behaving like adults and there be no self-created economic tremors shaking the place.
Still, catastrophic? No. Unsettling news in the future? Almost certainly. And thanks for hitting the gas on it teabagged people. Literally couldn't have done it with out you. Can't wait to see how low you'll dogma the economy just to play games.

Even if they were to work something out last minute (not holding my breath)I think 2016 is still going to prove a slaughter, the GOTP losing the House easily despite their election twisting efforts. Their antics have no place in effective governance. Say what you will about the Ds, but they don't act like this. It's fucking shameful.

 

[oynaz]

Seen from Over Here (Denmark), what is happening in the US is absolutely baffling. One thing is a governmental system which does even make it possible to end up in a situation like this, but people are actually believing that the result might not be that bad?

You do know that the "leader of the free world" position enjoyed by the US is eroding very fast, right? The entire world's economy is using the dollar as a kind of default currency. This is probably going to change, and that will hurt you financially - deeply.

In ten years, do not be surprised if the US finds itself being compared Middle-eastern countries instead of Western democracies. Deeply religuos country with an unstable political system, and highly dependent on your fossil fuel ressources (gas).

Unless you step up and do something to change the clusterfuck your country seems to be descending into. Good luck, you have got a number of allies cheering for you.

 

[AViking]

Walk into any bar, coffee shop, or restaurant in Stockholm right now and the conversation is similar. I tend to like to jump into people's conversations since it's a good way to meet people.

They want the US to pull head from ass but they also question whether it would be better to stop using the dollar as the global currency reserve. Problems with the US political system should not have such an effect on the global markets.

I think the consensus is that IF the US defaults it will mark the end of US power globally. Nobody will take the US seriously anymore. End of an empire type talk although they are surprised that it could happen so fast.

 

[boomerang]

Walk into any bar, coffee shop, or restaurant in Stockholm right now and the conversation is similar. I tend to like to jump into people's conversations since it's a good way to meet people.

They want the US to pull head from ass but they also question whether it would be better to stop using the dollar as the global currency reserve. Problems with the US political system should not have such an effect on the global markets.

I think the consensus is that IF the US defaults it will mark the end of US power globally. Nobody will take the US seriously anymore. End of an empire type talk although they are surprised that it could happen so fast.

It's exactly what Obama wanted. If you research his history growing up you know that he hates "American exceptionalism". It's what he was taught since birth.

 

[oynaz]

It's exactly what Obama wanted. If you research his history growing up you know that he hates "American exceptionalism". It's what he was taught since birth.

That borderline insane post illustrates my point exactly. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

 

[AViking]

It's exactly what Obama wanted. If you research his history growing up you know that he hates "American exceptionalism". It's what he was taught since birth.

You need to stop being a lunatic and start looking at things realistically. A terrible reality is about to smack the US in the face if people like you don't stop acting irrational.

My family insists that there is no way we are stupid enough to default. I hope they are right but I worry that the US has literally gotten to a point where reality is gone and talking points have taken over.

 

[Ryan]

That borderline insane post illustrates my point exactly. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Now you see what we have to put up with - how we even negotiate with these mouth-breathers is unknown.....

 

[PokerGuy]

Doom, hysteria, the world will end unless democrats get a few more trillion to waste!

Just like with the sequester, this is a non-event. The media is trying to drum up hysteria, but in the end the can will be kicked down the road and the spending will continue unabated.

 

[yllus]

The U.S. Treasury has a lot of weapons they can deploy to avoid a default, and as Fern mentions, there's enough money coming in to service the debt for a long time to come. It will however take something like a 30% reduction in spending to work out from what I've been reading.

So there will be no default under any circumstances, but you'll feel the effects just the same.

 

[Bowfinger]

I just hope that both Republican primary challengers and Democratic election opponents relentlessly hammer Tea Party incumbents over the hundreds of billions of dollars they're going to cost us with their reckless antics. We enjoy such low interest rates precisely because the U.S. dollar has been seen as the most solid currency in the world. Every time the Tea trogs play this game, that confidence is eroded. If U.S. bond rates merely double, that will become an extra $400 billion per year added to the deficit, directly due to the Tea Party and Republicans in general.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I just hope that both Republican primary challengers and Democratic election opponents relentlessly hammer Tea Party incumbents over the hundreds of billions of dollars they're going to cost us with their reckless antics. We enjoy such low interest rates precisely because the U.S. dollar has been seen as the most solid currency in the world. Every time the Tea trogs play this game, that confidence is eroded. If U.S. bond rates merely double, that will become an extra $400 billion per year added to the deficit, directly due to the Tea Party and Republicans in general.

Consider reducing the debt so we do not have to keep paying the interest.

The US keeps rolling over the Payday loan instead of paying it off.
Such is the fault of Congress and the WH.

Why, because it is more convenient than making the difficult choices.

Remember the Tea party ran on addressing the difficult choices. Most of Congress wants to play ostrich; the same as the President. Remember; he was supposed to cut the deficit by half in four years.

 

[PokerGuy]

I just hope that both Republican primary challengers and Democratic election opponents relentlessly hammer Tea Party incumbents over the hundreds of billions of dollars

Yeah, hammer them, but lets not under any circumstances blame those actually wasting the money to put us in a position of owing the trillions right? Right?

that will become an extra $400 billion per year added to the deficit, directly due to the Tea Party and Republicans in general.

No, the blame for that should be squarely on those who are primarily responsible for wasting the money to begin with, the democrats. Those who are trying by any means to reign in the spending should be lauded.

 

[Texashiker]

Consider reducing the debt so we do not have to keep paying the interest.

The US keeps rolling over the Payday loan instead of paying it off.
Such is the fault of Congress and the WH.

Why, because it is more convenient than making the difficult choices.

Nobody wants to make the tough choices, or the sacrifices.

Lets just keep pushing the debt back generation after generation. That is until some world changing event happens, and the debt is in the face of the people.

Like alan greenspan said, we can always print more money. We will just print our way out of debt.

 

[AViking]

The difficult choices should not include burning down the house though.

 

[Ryan]

Consider reducing the debt so we do not have to keep paying the interest.

The US keeps rolling over the Payday loan instead of paying it off.
Such is the fault of Congress and the WH.

Why, because it is more convenient than making the difficult choices.

Remember the Tea party ran on addressing the difficult choices. Most of Congress wants to play ostrich; the same as the President. Remember; he was supposed to cut the deficit by half in four years.

Deficit in 2009: $1.4 trillion (Congress and Bush had already authorized nearly 1.2 trillion of it before BO ever took office).

Projected deficit in 2013: $642 billlion (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/Table_1-revised_GDP_projections.pdf)

That's about a 55% reduction..........

 

[fskimospy]

I think we have found the problem right there. Republicans have become quite apt at dismissing the advice of widely recognized experts in exchange for gut feelings or ideological driven wishful thinking. You could put an Economics professor with a Harvard degree up against some loud mouthed ideologue in an expensive suit, and most Republicans would give more credence to the gut feeling of the latter. Parades of banking executives, treasury officials, IMF officials, etc have all told Congress they are playing with fire, but dumb ass Ted Yoho, who never held elected office before winning his seat, believes his experience as a large animal vet gives him enough credibility to ignore such experts. It's normally humorous to point and laugh at such idiots, until they have their hands on enough levers to bring this country to it's knees.

No joke, they actually did this. In 2011 the Republican leadership sent a prominent economist to try and educate House conservatives about the debt limit and they just ignored him.

http://books.google.com/books?id=tR... limit karl rove&pg=PA235#v=onepage&q&f=false

You see it on here all the time, it's just a willful denial of reality because it doesn't tell them what they want to hear.

 

[Bowfinger]

Consider reducing the debt so we do not have to keep paying the interest.

The US keeps rolling over the Payday loan instead of paying it off.
Such is the fault of Congress and the WH.

Why, because it is more convenient than making the difficult choices.

Remember the Tea party ran on addressing the difficult choices. Most of Congress wants to play ostrich; the same as the President. Remember; he was supposed to cut the deficit by half in four years.

Unless you have $17 trillion burning a hole in your pocket, the debt -- and the interest on that debt -- are a fact of life. We can't pretend it away. The cold, hard fact is we're going to be paying a higher interest rate on that debt, and it IS going to cost us billions of dollars. The only question is how deep will the Tea Partiers dig us, and our children, with their reckless disregard for financial realities? The more this drags out, the more hundreds of billions we'll be adding in debt service.

Edit: And oh yes, today's deficit is about half of what we started with when Obama took office. It's still too high, but it's headed in the right direction. Of course all this new Tea Party interest may put us right back where we were in 2009.

 

[Bowfinger]

Yeah, hammer them, but lets not under any circumstances blame those actually wasting the money to put us in a position of owing the trillions right? Right?

OK, I'll bite. I'm fine with not reelecting Obama for a third term. There goes about a third of the debt. Unfortunately, Reagan is dead and GW Bush is retired, so what do you propose to do about them? Of course it's really Congress who gets most of the blame for debt, but once again, the debt has been skyrocketing for over 30 years. I'm not sure how we go back and hold them accountable ... and it won't make one damn bit of difference if we do.

The debt will remain, and the interest on that debt will climb as our interest rates climb. That's the reality, no matter how much you want to wish it away. It is the reckless behavior of Tea Party Republicans that is directly increasing the cost of that debt. Period.

No, the blame for that should be squarely on those who are primarily responsible for wasting the money to begin with, the democrats. Those who are trying by any means to reign in the spending should be lauded.

Hack on, child. Your talking point about "Democrats" spending is transparently nonsensical. BOTH parties spend like drunken sailors, no matter how much RNC Kool-Aid you guzzle. The only real difference between the two parties is that Democrats used to try to raise taxes to pay for their excessive spending, whereas Republicans were fixated on slashing taxes and making the deficit that much worse. That's another fact you can't wish away.

 

[Matt1970]

Deficit in 2009: $1.4 trillion (Congress and Bush had already authorized nearly 1.2 trillion of it before BO ever took office).

Projected deficit in 2013: $642 billlion (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/Table_1-revised_GDP_projections.pdf)

That's about a 55% reduction..........

Problem is we are already into his second term. Also, all but $90 Billion of the reduction in the CBO's original $1 Trillion projection had nothing to do with what Obama or the Government did.

 

[AViking]

Problem is we are already into his second term. Also, all but $90 Billion of the reduction in the CBO's original $1 Trillion projection had nothing to do with what Obama or the Government did.

Obama entered office January of 2009 and started his 2nd term in January of 2013 correct? I distinctly remember there being an election in November of 2008 and then again in November of 2012.

When he entered office the deficit was $1.4T. It is now $759B and projected to be less.

Spin it some more.

When Bush Jr. entered office the SURPLUS WAS $127B. When he left there was a deficit of $459B approaching $1.4T.