First Timer Building a New PC - Have Questions

[DaBud]

Hello,
This is my first post and my first attempt to build a PC from scratch. I am a gamer and I play with movies and mp3's along with home building and architect programs. I am looking to build the follwing system and I just wanted a few opinions on 1 - What is better for me 2 - Is there a cheaper way 3 - Will this setup work with what I have chosen 4 - Any other advice or opinons. I have upgraded PC and done a few things and read alot from here and a few other places. I have shopped around and I think I will be using newegg. I am considering googlegear as well. This will be a all black system. Here goes:

Case: Chenming Model #AX-01 - $90
Case

CDRW: Liteon 52x24x52 - $50
CDRW

DVD/CDRom: Liteon 16xDVD - 48xCDROM $36
DVD/CDROM

Floppy Drive: Sony 1.44 mb - $16
Floppy


Memory: 2 pcs - Samsung Original DDR400 PC3200 512mb - $83 ea
Can I get away with one piece of 512mb for a lil while and if so, should I get a different brand?
Memory

Sound: Audigy 2 - $112
OR
Audigy 2 Plat - $167

Is it worth the extra $55 for the Plat?

Hard Drive: Choosing one of these 3 Maxtor Drives:
A - 80gb 7200RPM ATA133 (Part # 6Y080P0) - $100
B - 120gb 7200 RPM ATA133 (Part # 6Y120P0) - $135
C - 160gb 7200 RPM ATA 133 (Part # 6Y160P0) - $170

This will be depending on my $$$ Flow and how any of these will work with the rest. I am most likely going to get the 120gb, but I may go for the 160gb.


Video Card: Deciding on one of these ATI Cards:
A - ATI OEM Radeon 9700 Atlantis 128mb DDR 8x AGP Bulk - $232
B - ATI OEM Radeon 9500 Sapphire 128mb DDR Bulk - $165

I want to Overclock the card. The card and save $$$$. And if I decide not too at least I will have the option to at a later time. Will there be a difference between these 2 cards if they are both overclocked? If so, is it worth the extra $$$$ for the 9700?

Processor:
I want to use one of the following Processors:
A - AMD XP 2000+ $90
B - AMD XP 2200+ $105
C - AMD XP 2400+ $136

(Cosidering Overclocking, but I need more info. I see how to do the mod to the chip, but not sure what program to use to overclock)

And for the cost of this one if I go for the 2400+ is the same, but which is the better chipfor the $$$?
Intel P4 2.53 $189


MotherBoard: Looking at one of these 3:

A - ASUS A7N8X Deluxe Retail - $145
B - EPOX 8RDA+ $102
C - ABIT NF7-S $125 Refurb - $89

I was leaning on the ASUS board, but the Refurb ABIT is very tempting for the price. Which is best for me and would you take a change on newegg with the refurb MOBO?


And I prorbably will add this Pioneer DVR-104 2X DVD-R/RW OEM Black for $230


Also note I will be using the Artic Silver3 for the processor.

If there is anything else I will need, please let me know.

Many Thanks in advance to those who help!

 

[Stallion]

Wow, looks like some nice stuff. I'm not to swift on the AMD and ATI stuff but have you thought about getting an Intel. I have an 1.8A P4 that will run at 2.7 all day long and a GF4 Ti4400 card that over clocks very nice.

Anyways, like I said, I'm no expert on AMDs so I'll leave that up to someone else..

 

[DaBud]

Yes, I have looked at the Intel chips and I see that newegg has the P4 2.4 for $162 and then the 2.53 is $189. The 1.8 chip you are talking about is only $133 there, but I have not looked into overclocking an Intel chip and would be clueless. I also read that the AMD chips are better for gaming and they are a lil cheaper.

 

[Stallion]

I'm not sure if they are any better for gaming then Intel but that is just my opinion and they are like belly buttons. I would imagine my Intel will play just about any game out there with out a hitch. So far I have managed to get 13750 on the 3dmarks and I still have more tweaking I can do.

I wont say one is better then the other, just personal prefrence I guess.

Intel chips O/C easier and run alot cooler from what I understand and you can usually get the FSB to run alot higher. And that's what you want, So far I have had mine to 150FSB which is clipping right along.

 

[Cerberus8080]

Originally posted by: Stallion
I'm not sure if they are any better for gaming then Intel but that is just my opinion and they are like belly buttons.

Intel chips O/C easier and run alot cooler from what I understand and you can usually get the FSB to run alot higher. And that's what you want, .

I agree with stallion but if you want an expert opinion, not that stallion doesn't know what he's talking about, check out extremetech.com Here is one way too look at it. If you get the AMD 2400+ or the 2.4GHz P4 you won't see much difference while playing games. The only difference is the numerical differrence from a benchmark, and the differrence won't be significant between these two proccessors.

If I were you I would spend the $160 on a Corsair 3200 XMS 512MB stick instead of two 256 sticks. You will have lower latency if you use one 512 stick as opposed to two 256 sticks.

I have the Liteon burner you're considering. It rocks!! can burn a full music CD in about 2 minutes. Source for burn is .wav file on HD. Have not tried to clone a CD yet, but I'm sure its quick.

Spend the extra $$$$ and get the 9700 Pro so you won't have to upgrade it next year. You can either buy cheap now and upgrade next year or buy the 9700 Pro and not upgrade for 2 yrs or so.....it's worth the money.

I have a SB Audigy 2 and it's pretty nice. not sure what the Plat features are or if they are worth the extra money.

Good luck and have fun

EDIT : Linky didn't work
EDIT2 : Didn't work again

 

[DaBud]

Thanks

One question about the memory, I had listed Samsung 512mb PC3200 - is Corsair worth double the money than the Samsung? If so, why? Thanks again. Regarding the 9700 Pro - both of the 2 cards listed are suppose to be able to be overclocked to the 9700 Pro. I was just looking on opinions on which is best and easier to do and if one or the other is better to overclock with.

 

[Stallion]

I have a 512mg stick of the corsair XMS 3200 and I'll say it's the shizat. I have it at 2-2-2-6 (I'm pretty sure ) and I have had no problems yet. I have heard as well that one 512 stick is better then 2 256 pieces. That's why when I upgraded my 1.6A mobo and ram I got the Corsair instead of using my 2 256mg Mushkin DDR2700 pieces.

 

[DaBud]

I should have read first - I see that the Corsair Memory is designed to be one of the fastest DDR chips geared towards gaming. I will see if my budget will allow it. I will go ahead and downgrade my sound card to the audigy 2 (no platinum) and upgrade the video card. I found a place that has the 9700 Pro 325/620 for $271. They also have a Enhanced 9500 SE 320/620 for $177. Both of these cards will be fine and the 9500 would be great on the budget for a card that will easily last a year. I must say though, the 9700 Pro has alot of capabilites - 415/730 no fan for $449 - wow. That will be for my next system If I take the 9500 Enhanced, I can now upgrade the memory to the Corsair PC3200 512 mb.

So Far I am going to be set with this:

-AMD Athlon XP2400+ - $116
-Maxtor 120gb Hard Drive - $135
-Audigy 2 Sound Card - $70
-Chenming Case - $103
-Video Card - ATI Radeon 9500 Enhanced - $177
-Pioneer DVDr/RW - $181
-LiteOn CDRW 52x - $56
-Liteon CDROM - $42
-Sony Floppy - $15
-Zalman Heatsink & Fan - $31
-Corsair Memory - 512mb PC3200 DDR - $93
-Artic Silver3 Thermal Paste

That leaves me with the MOBO

ASUS A7N8X Deluxe - $133
EPOX 8RDA+ - $71
ABIT NF7-S - $95 or $89 Refurbished from newegg

Prices are from various places now. Thanks for all the help guys

 

[sumrtym]

If you choose an nForce mobo, you'll want two 256 MB sticks of memory for dual operation. Also, just a Sapphire 9500 would be best for videocard. It's almost same performance as 9700.

 

[Vette73]

If getting a nForce2 board with the MCP-T then you don't need a Audigy, unless you are doing some hard editing or something.

I have heard the Soundstorm at work, trust me, save you $$$ and use it.

 

[RedRonin]

Wow. That case is awesome. An excellent choice. I don't think you can do any better for the price. I have seen cases without half the features and missing a power supply at online stores for at least $50 more.

You certainly have the available drive bay space for both a DVD and a CD-RW. However, you might want to consider a combined drive such as the LG ELECTRONICS #GCC-4480BI 48X/24X/48X + 16X CDRW/DVD-ROM for around $75 at mWave.com and available for reasonable prices elsewhere.

You likely can't go wrong with a floppy drive these days, as long as you get a new one.

You know your computing habits perhaps a bit better than the rest of us. For most people 512 MB of DDR 400 would keep them in good shape for an extremely long time. However, if you really enjoy multitasking and have a tendency to put any PC in a headlock and make it cry "Uncle!", get as much RAM as you can afford. RAM is like money, you can never have too much.

I won't say I've looked to know for sure, but... I think the only real difference is that the retail boxed Platinum versions of the Creative Labs sound cards come with a front panel that takes up a 5-1/4" bay for connecting MIDI, SPDIF, IR Remote and whatever else. If you aren't a musician and don't intend to use this as a multimedia out to television box, you don't necessarily need to spend the extra money (you might get a few extra games in the package too). It is nice to have though.

I guess those are all 8MB RAM buffer hard drives, right? They should do just fine. Since you have RAID in mind for the future, I'd consider buying multiple 80GB drives, rather than a pair of 160 GB. Yes it would cost more money, but I prefer multiple redundancy. You perhaps could save that difference by going with the 2MB RAM buffer version of the drive instead.

Benchmark tests have shown that it is possible to overclock the Radeon 9500 Pro cards to match Radeon 9700 performance. The Radeon 9500 cards are a great value, and likely will disappear from store shelves within the next couple of months, since ATi knows about the overclocking option. Many different websites, such as HardOCP.com and SharkyExtreme.com have articles on such things. It amazes me that some people are now looking at nVidia the way they used to look at 3Dfx, "They're the best, consider no other!" Heh, back in the day I could see both PowerVR and nVidia solutions were better than 3Dfx, but no one else would admit it. Consumers voted with their dollars and now nVidia reigns. Anyhow, you will not be disappointed with any of the GeForce4 Ti rated video cards, but right now, today, and for the immediate foreseeable future, the ATi Radeon 9500, 9700 and 9800 cards are better.

Due to the fact I am a very frugal person (that means I'm cheap), I cannot recommend buying Intel CPUs to anyone on a budget. If the sky is the limit, by all means go ahead and get an Intel CPU with the most fully loaded ASUS motherboard you can find. Otherwise, get AMD. The motherboards on your list are all great. If your budget is really as high as $150 though, think about checking out the MSI K7N2G-ILSR, which can be had for around $136. Personally, since I don't have any need for RAID, I would likely just get the Biostar M7NCG for $99 and call it a day. But it would look strange having such a tiny board behind the window of that beautiful new case, eh? I hope this helps!

Toyoniya Hiyaku, Noromuoy!

Red Ronin, The Cybernetic Samurai

 

[Bonesdad]

yeah, lose the Audigy altogether. The sound on these NForce2 boards is GREAT! Also, save your money by dropping the floppy, besides $16 is WAY too much for something you might use in a blue moon IMHO...


I just plopped in an 8RDA+ last night. Installed all without a hitch. Looking forward to OC to 2400+ speeds on this board. Where can u get it for $71 bux??? Refurb? Get new for what u save on flop and sound...

Not sure about the mem...from what I've heard, you get better performance if you fill 2 slots on the NForce2 board cuz of Dual DDR.

Nice looking system!!! Good luck

 

[FearoftheNight]

Originally posted by: sumrtym
If you choose an nForce mobo, you'll want two 256 MB sticks of memory for dual operation. Also, just a Sapphire 9500 would be best for videocard. It's almost same performance as 9700.

I don't think having 2 separate stick is worth it. Theres like a 1% performance difference. Only time having the dual channel is good if for onboard video. As for the video card I'd argue 9500 pro or 9700 non pro.

Soundstorm is pretty good. I use the analog and its decent. I hear the digital output is where it shines.

 

[phatj]

I'd personally go with a P4.. but if you want an AMD, get the epox 8rda+ mobo... the samsung ram is excellent too... if you are going to do major overclocking, however, you should consider getting some Corsair XMS memory.

 

[ghosty]

I haven't really read throughly through the post but if its your first time building.. don't forget about airflow. I know alot of people that put together their first computer and totally forget about airflow and circulation. This is a VERY VERY important thing, especially when dealing with AMD chips as they run alot hotter then an Intel chip. So make sure to have a good fan sucking in and one blowing out of your case. Thats just basic if your not gonna overclock that will do you fine but if your gonna overclock then look into some professional cooling and gear yourself all up.

Anyways thought I would just drop a tip that a lot of people leave out when building their first comp

GoodLuck with it. Looks like a real nice set up you have!

 

[optimistic]

I don't recommend getting the plain Radeon 9500 with intentions of soft modding to 9700. Instead get the 9500 pro ($171 at mwave) and overclock from there. The plain 9500 performs the same as a GF4ti4200 and an unsuccessful mod (artifacts) will leave you with an overpriced ti4200. The 9500 pro version is superior because it has 8 pipelines enabled, while the non-pro has 4 (hack enables the other 4, but many are finding that they are bad).

Also, if you're sensitive to the noise your computer makes, you might want to look closely into what powersupply you'll be buying. And from experience I know my 16x, 12x Liteon CDRW & DVD drives are LOUD when writing and playing a simple movie (can't enjoy at night because of the noise!). I suggest looking into Samsung for quieter drives (or so I've read). They have the same performance with similar prices, and yes they do have BLACK.

And if you do decide to go dual channel, I suggest a P4 2.4B for $161 and either MSI or Gigabyte 655 board for approx $110. P4s can take advantage of the extra memory bandwidth. And I don't really see the need (other than outrageous bus speeds) for "luxury" XMSxxx _insert brand name here_ RAM. I stick with Samsung or Crucial types and haven't looked back.

Hope this helps!

 

[DaBud]

Wow - Thanks for all the responses and help and pointing out a few important things I missed out on. Here we go for any questions that were asked and here is what I am going to build so far:

EPOX 8RDA+ - $71 shipped


I think I am going to get the ASUS A7N8x Deluxe. I did compare it to the MSI K7N2G-ILSR board and this is a Great board as well, but I like the ASUS board because of the board layout and the overclocking ability is greater with the ASUS and I can get the ASUS for less And another thing is I am going with the AMD 2400+.

It was great to point out the Soundstorm on the MOBO. Why get the soundcard at all.

Back to the memory: I am going to go back to my original plan: 2 Samsung Original DDR 400 PC3200 512 mb chips. I might use Corsair or Crucial as well. None of the real expensive chips. If I decide to overclock real hard I will go with the Corsair XMS series - too much $$$ at the time for my budget.

Back to the video card. I can get the ATI 9500 ENHANCED for $177 (ocsystem.com) 320/620
I can get the ATI 9500 PRO ENHANCED for $217 (ocsystem.com) 340/640
I can get the ATI 9500 PRO for $177 (newegg)
I can get the ATI ATLANTIS 9700 for $232 (newegg.com) OEM possible OC


I would like to spend the least amount of money and still get the best bang for my $$$ while still keeping the future in mind. By what I understand is the 9500 OC'd will be at it's max, while the PRO 9500 will give me a lil more room for future improvements (maybe not much more) and the Atlantis 9700 can be made into a Pro or better and still have room for future improvements. If all this is true, I was going to get the 9500 Enhanced, but then it would be wiser to spend the extra $15 for the Atlantis 9700. If I am wrong in any way, please help me understand so I can make the best decision.

Also, I have been asked by a few why I want a DVDR/RW and a CDR/RW and a CDROM Drive. Well, I want the DVDR/RW to burn DVD's. The DVDR/RW is not a fast being a CDRW and does not have the same speed if I am say backing up my Music CD, so I thought it would be wise to have all 3. The DVDR/RW for the DVD needs, the CDROM and CDRW for data and music stuff. Also I thought I would not push the DVDR/RW drive as hard for what I do.

This is what I am looking at so far to build:

-Chenming Case - $103
-ASUS A7N8X - $133
-AMD Athlon XP2400+ - $116
-Zalman Heatsink & Fan - $31
-Maxtor 120gb - 7200 - 8mb - ATA 133 Hard Drive - $135
-Video Card - ATI Radeon 9700 - $232
-Pioneer DVDR/RW - $181
-LiteOn CDRW 52x - $56
-Liteon CDROM - $42
-Sony Floppy - $15
-2 - Samsung Memory Chips - 512mb PC3200 DDR 400 - $70 each
-Artic Silver3 Thermal Paste


- Is the Zalman Fan and Heatsink overkill or is there something better for the price?

- Is it wiser to use 2 hardrives at first? I would prefer to use the one 120 and add another a few months down the road if I need to. Does the Raid set-up actually work better than the Non-Raid and is it worth the cost?

- I think I will have enough cooling with what I have. I may OC the CPU just a lil (after I still get a lil more info, if you have any stuff regarding the programs I need to do this, I would appreciate it). I will OC the Video Card some, but the case I am using has 5 fans (one of them being on the side just for the purpose of the OC'n of the Video Card). I also am using Artic Silver 3 on the processor. Will this be sufficent for cooling?

All in all, it looks like I will be at $1200 for this. I can't be too disappointed considering that I will have a decent setup with DVDR/RW, ATI 9700, 120gb HD. I do not think it is worth to save $100 by going with the Epox 8RDA+ and the ATI 9500 Pro Enhanced. As I consider overclocking, I could save on the 9500 Pro and OC it myself, but I read that the Pro can't be done and there was a response that said I can do it here and by the site I listed for the 9500 Enhanced- it looks like it can be. If so, I will so it myself and save another $40. If I am not mistaken, the Epox does not have the same sound quality and then I would need to get the Audigy Sound card and then the price is the same, besides for that, is there an advantage using the Epox over the Asus?

Many, Many Thanks to All you guys who are helping me

 

[Doh!]

Save $42 on a cd-rom. If you're concerned about ripping & copying music from a cd to cd/rw, just rip it to hd and burn it. Even backing up a data cd, you can use any .iso utilty (isobuster, winiso) to rip the content as a cd image and burn it. Having 3 ODD is like having an extra floppy drive.

 

[DaBud]

Back to the Hard Drive, what if I went with this one:
Seagate 80GB 7200rpm SERIAL ATA Hard Drive Barracuda V ST380023AS

Since the Asus Board I am using (A7N8X) - would it be wise to utilize the serial ATA for the hard drive?


I had chose the Maxtor Drive originally (120 gb - 7200 RPM - ATA 133 - 8mb), but this drive is suppose to transfer data faster by what I understand. My question here is, is it worth to upgrade the harddrive for speed and sacrafice the extra 40gb? I plan on adding a second drive later.

How does all of this look so far? Do you see any forseen problems I may encounter (cool - heatsink and fan clearance)?

Is there a better heatsink and fan or one that works the same for around the same amount? I have been reading about this Termaltake Volcano 9 - how does this compare to my Zalman? Will they both fit and which is the better of the 2?

I should have enough cooling with 5 fans (one on the side of the case for the video card) - Artic 3 on the processor - upgrade heatsink and fan - and I am adding a cooling system on the 9700 card. Here is a link to the 9700 cooling system: 9700 Cooling

If there is anything else to consider or problems I may encounter - especially with using the MOBO I selected (ASUS A7N8X), please let me know.

As always, many thanks for your help and opinions

 

[optimistic]

Originally posted by: Doh!
Save $42 on a cd-rom. If you're concerned about ripping & copying music from a cd to cd/rw, just rip it to hd and burn it. Even backing up a data cd, you can use any .iso utilty (isobuster, winiso) to rip the content as a cd image and burn it. Having 3 ODD is like having an extra floppy drive.

I remember when that use to be cool! You need some floppies copied quick? Come see the guy with two floppies drives

Originally posted by: DaBud
Is there a better heatsink and fan or one that works the same for around the same amount? I have been reading about this Termaltake Volcano 9 - how does this compare to my Zalman? Will they both fit and which is the better of the 2?

If you want to compare coolers look at this.

 

[DaBud]

Nice info again Optimistic - much appreciated. After reading that, I have decided to build the following:

-Chenming Case AX-01 - $103
-ASUS A7N8X Deluxe - $133
-AMD Athlon XP2400+ - $116
-Thermalright SLK-800a Heatsink - $42
-Sunon Fan - FASU8038BA34 - $11
-Seagate - ST3120023AS - 120gb - 7200 - 8mb - Serial ATA - $182
-Video Card - ATI Radeon 9700 - $232
-Zalman Video Card Cooler - ZM80A-HP - $36
-Pioneer - SD-R5002 - DVDR/RW - $181
-LiteOn - 52x24x52 - CDRW 52x - $56
-Liteon 16xDVD - 48xCDROM - $42
-Sony Floppy - $15
-2 - Samsung Original Memory Chips - 512mb PC3200 DDR 400 - $70 each
-Artic Silver3 Thermal Paste - $6 (3 grams)

Added a few more $$$, but after reading on Serial ATA and the Heatsink/Fan combo - it is worth the extra few $$$ here. I mine as well get the Video Card cooler as well to help. Along with the 5 case fans that come with my case and the Artic Silver3, I should be able to keep this puppy cool. I am slacking on the memory, but I am at my limit for my new toy and I will upgrade later to better memory (unless there is something a few $$$ more that is better).

QUESTIONS:
Do I need a power cable for the Serial ATA Hard Drive with the Asus A7N8X Deluxe?
Is there anything else I need to consider?


And thanks for your help

 

[Jaycephus]

Yes, you need a SATA Power Cable Adapter. No one is including it with their MB or HDD, but you can get one from Page Computers, Newegg, or Googlegear. Just search for SATA Power Adapter, or something like that. They're around $10 or so each.

Regarding RAID, you may not need a 120 GB HDD, depending on your plans. On the NForce2 boards that have RAID, there are only two ways to utilize RAID: either with two redundant drives that provides data security, or with two striped drives that provides, theoretically, almost double the throughput of a single drive. Most of us home users are going for speed, and that's what I'm guessing you're interested in. With this type of RAID, RAID 'zero', the data is split up, or striped, between two drives, so that both harddrives provide data simultaneously when it is requested. On a 2xSATA MB, you can only utilize two drives, while other RAID solutions may allow up to 4 or more drives connected in a RAID array. The thing that you need to consider before you buy a drive is that you should really buy 2 of the exact same model and size of drive, which can be a problem if you are buying one now and one later. Since the drive you are looking at is new, you should be able to still purchase its mate a few month from now, but there is always the possibility that the manufacturer will make some slight revision to the drive, retain the same model number, and when you try to use it in a RAID array with your original drive, you may have a problem. It's happened to some people, but it's probably unlikely to happen. Also, do you really need 240 GB of drive space, which is what you will have after you get two 120 GB HDDs? In my case, I'd be happy with two 60 GB SATA HDDs in a RAID '0' array.

FYI, one SATA/150 HDD by itself may not be noticeably different from a PATA/133 HDD, performance wise. It does benchmark a little faster, but I doubt you would notice it in real life, and the price difference might be better spent elsewhere. But if you plan to use two SATA HDDs in a RAID 0 configuration, then you would certainly have much faster disk throughput than PATA/133. I will soon be building a new computer for myself, and I plan to get a MB with at least a dual SATA raid capability. However, I plan to use an older HDD that I have on hand until SATA drives with even better performance relative to PATA/133 become available. Good luck.