First species extinct due to climate change possibly identified

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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
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I remember when CAFE was going to decimate the auto industry, people wouldn't be able to afford a car! Only difference is my newer truck gets 20mpg instead of 15mpg. Thanks progress! :D

My truck too!

Just imagine if we had a President and congress who was willing to position us for leading world in renewables, energy storage, next gen nuclear reactors, etc instead of proping up older technologies.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,691
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By "brushed aside", I mean people inventing new proxies to show what they need to show - that there really was no Medieval Warm Period and thus, that the hockey stick is correct. Because without the hockey stick, catastrophic anthropogenic global warming is not very compelling.


lol Closer than I want to look.

The point I think you are missing is that the MWP happened AND the hockey stick is true. They aren't mutually exclusive regardless of what some think tank has put on the web.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
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Fundamentally this is the same problem as with evolution/creation, where people see there's something one side says, and there's what the other side says, with the truth somewhere in between.

I suspect humans evolved this mechanism to deal with/balance social relationships, where some compromise between positions is essential regardless of who's "right".

It doesn't work with facts in the physical world, but realizing that isn't essential to survival so the ineffective mechanism lingers on even though the vanguard of human knowledge has long moved on.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Advances in communication, physics, medicine, etc are frequently the product of major investment by the government in research. What are you talking about?

So you'd be satisfied with approaching the 'existential problem' of climate change with a handful of billions in R&D? If so then fine have at. And here the rest of us were all thinking you were serious with all your completely harebrained ideas like carbon taxes and such.


I remember when CAFE was going to decimate the auto industry, people wouldn't be able to afford a car! Only difference is my newer truck gets 20mpg instead of 15mpg. Thanks progress! :D

You realize that fuel economy standards calculated by CAFE standards aren't the same as the window sticker MPG? And plus CAFE calculation methods have changed, not to mention that fleet standards are a function of the vehicle size mix so domestic makers are actually further incentivized to build even more SUVs and trucks than they do now. So I guess climate change is tolerable to the politicians when they want to benefit a specific group like UAW employees at the expense of others.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,691
15,939
146
So you'd be satisfied with approaching the 'existential problem' of climate change with a handful of billions in R&D? If so then fine have at. And here the rest of us were all thinking you were serious with all your completely harebrained ideas like carbon taxes and such.




You realize that fuel economy standards calculated by CAFE standards aren't the same as the window sticker MPG? And plus CAFE calculation methods have changed, not to mention that fleet standards are a function of the vehicle size mix so domestic makers are actually further incentivized to build even more SUVs and trucks than they do now. So I guess climate change is tolerable to the politicians when they want to benefit a specific group like UAW employees at the expense of others.

We probably ought to go for the tried and true cap and trade. I know you don't feel that bringing market forces to bear on the problem will work because Al Gore is a wizard but it's historically worked.

You do realize that Subyman and I were speaking from direct experience with our own vehicles.

My 04 Suburban 5.3 V8 295 hp :eek: was rated at 14-18 mpg and averaged about 14.8 for us. Our new 15 Suburban 5.3 V8 355hp is rated at 16-23 mph and is averaging about 19.5 for us. (50 mile peaks as high as 24.5mpg)

That's a 30% increase in real mileage and a real impact of Federal CAFE standards.

Now the state and local govt here has fucked us. Thanks to their school budgeting no one within 2 miles of an elementary school gets bussed. Children 2nd grade and younger may not walk home. For middle school my kids who go to magnate schools only get bussed home.

So the net result is my wife and I used to be able to carpool in our sedan with everyone in the morning and the Suburban went 3 -4 weeks between fill ups. Now we take seperate cars and 500 parents decend on the school twice a day and idle for 30 minutes. But hey we saved tax dollars somehow by not busing at the cost of gas, time, pollution and traffic.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
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So you'd be satisfied with approaching the 'existential problem' of climate change with a handful of billions in R&D? If so then fine have at. And here the rest of us were all thinking you were serious with all your completely harebrained ideas like carbon taxes and such.

Keep in mind incentive taxation/credits are the free-market alternative to straight regulatory limits on emissions. It's what the business people lobby for, ie your guys.

--
Speaking of which, CAFE is also a tradable credit. Companies like Tesla take advantage of this type of thing and use it like a large gov subsidy.
 
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