First sighting of a Kabini mini-itx board

[SPBHM]

Should be 150-160$ at most considering the sub 100$ APU price.

if that's the case, the 1007U board right now on newegg for $90 is a much better option for a basic mini-itx board.

 

[Abwx]

if that's the case, the 1007U board right now on newegg for $90 is a much better option for a basic mini-itx board.

I was responding to this post :

What price can we expect for an A6-5200 board once the prices have stabilized?

I would prefer a 150-160$ A6 5200 based mini PC than a celeron one for a handfull $ less.

 

[SPBHM]

I was responding to this post :



I would prefer a 150-160$ A6 5200 based mini PC than a celeron one for a handfull $ less.

I'm no so sure, both are useless for any intensive task,
the Celeron is dual core IB based, at 1.5GHz it's OK for basic computing.

your estimate have a what? 70% higher price than the currently available 1007U board, I doubt you can justify this with performance or power.

 

[Abwx]

your estimate have a what? 70% higher price than the currently available 1007U board, I doubt you can justify this with performance or power.

Did you take account in your 70% that the A6 CPU is provided with the MB ?

 

[SPBHM]

Did you take account in your 70% that the A6 CPU is provided with the MB ?

and? 1007U is bga only and it also comes soldered into a board for $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128598

 

[Abwx]

and? 1007U is bga only and it also comes soldered into a board for $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128598

Yes but no VT-d , no AES , not even USB3 and only a very basic HD GFX , the only good point is dual channel memory.

Edit : ISA is limited to SSE4.2 at most , so no AVX , FMA
and so on...

For the AMD i estimated the APU at 90$ and the MB for 60-70$
wich is surely the upper possible price estimation.

 

[Zap]

For performance, can get an Ivy Bridge Core i3-3245 with HD 4000 and an H77 chipset ITX board combo for $195+tax @MicroCenter.

For low power draw, can get an ITX board with Celeron 1007U for $90. That CPU is a 17W ULV dual core 1.5GHz Ivy Bridge with 1GHz 6EU graphics.

All I'm saying is the A6-5200 better be really cheap! There are (usually) no bad products. Just bad pricing.

 

[SPBHM]

Yes but no VT-d , no AES , not even USB3 and only a very basic HD GFX , the only good point is dual channel memory.

For the AMD i estimated the APU at 90$ and the MB for 60-70$
wich is surely the upper possible price estimation.

all the features you mentioned are questionable for this kind of product apart from USB 3.0 (but the 1007u boards with HM70 have that), the price difference is way to big,

as for the IGP, it's the HD2500 (different name because of quick sync basically) with dual channel memory, shouldn't be a huge disadvantage...
Dual Core Jaguar is not going to look good compared to the 1007U, so I hope 4 core Jaguar can be more competitive in price, $100 could be OK for A4 5000 board,

but, if you ignore power, $100 is enough for a G1610 (2.6GHz IB) + itx board... which is clearly faster

 

[ShintaiDK]

For performance, can get an Ivy Bridge Core i3-3245 with HD 4000 and an H77 chipset ITX board combo for $195+tax @MicroCenter.

For low power draw, can get an ITX board with Celeron 1007U for $90. That CPU is a 17W ULV dual core 1.5GHz Ivy Bridge with 1GHz 6EU graphics.

All I'm saying is the A6-5200 better be really cheap! There are (usually) no bad products. Just bad pricing.

You can also add the middle route. H61 miniITX board plus G1610 for 100$.

 

[Abwx]

all the features you mentioned are questionable for this kind of product apart from USB 3.0 (but the 1007u boards with HM70 have that), the price difference is way to big,

as for the IGP, it's the HD2500 (different name because of quick sync basically) with dual channel memory, shouldn't be a huge disadvantage...
Dual Core Jaguar is not going to look good compared to the 1007U, so I hope 4 core Jaguar can be more competitive in price, $100 could be OK for A4 5000 board,

but, if you ignore power, $100 is enough for a G1610 (2.6GHz IB) + itx board... which is clearly faster

A6 5200 , the 2ghz variant , not the A4 5000.
Besides it s HD2000 , not 2500...

AES or AVX/FMA are not questionable as they will allow better
perfs for the APU while the celeron will be stuck with its current scores.

 

[SPBHM]

A6 5200 , the 2ghz variant , not the A4 5000.
Besides it s HD2000 , not 2500...

AES or AVX/FMA are not questionable as they will allow better
perfs for the APU while the celeron will be stuck with its current scores.

it's HD 2500.

HD 2000 = Sandy Bridge with 6EUs
1007U is ivy bridge with 6 EUs.

faster AES than the 1007U (software) can provide is relevant for very few customers of $100 mini ITX boards, and for AVX/FMA... again, even with that Kabini is a low performance product....

the A6 shouldn't cost much more than the A4 imho, and the G1610 ($50+$50) will be faster anyway.

 

[ShintaiDK]

AES or AVX/FMA are not questionable as they will allow better
perfs for the APU while the celeron will be stuck with its current scores.

AES is irrelevant. And Jaguar doesnt support FMA does it?

Unless these prices gets radically changed. Then this is simply another misfit product for AMD.

 

[monstercameron]

AES is irrelevant. And Jaguar doesnt support FMA does it?

Unless these prices gets radically changed. Then this is simply another misfit product for AMD.

then again these products havent really hit the market yet, so what we are probably seeing is the msrp/speculation, give it a few weeks/months and the prices will come down to comfortable levels...like pretty much most products.

 

[AtenRa]

For low power draw, can get an ITX board with Celeron 1007U for $90. That CPU is a 17W ULV dual core 1.5GHz Ivy Bridge with 1GHz 6EU graphics.

All I'm saying is the A6-5200 better be really cheap! There are (usually) no bad products. Just bad pricing.

Intel Celeron 1007U = Dual core 1.5GHz 17W TDP (NM70 chipset = 4.1W TDP)

AMD A6-5200 = Quad core 2GHz 20W TDP SoC

I will not be surprised if the A6-5200 is faster both in single thread and MultiThread at lower power consumption. Also, A6-5200 has a tone of features that Celeron 1007U lacks.

A6-5200 is in another league, there is no comparison between the two and its only natural to be more expensive vs the Celeron 1007U.

Edit: For once again, it seems that GIGABYTE GA-C1007UN-D can only be found in US and not in Europe.

 

[monstercameron]

Intel Celeron 1007U = Dual core 1.5GHz 17W TDP (NM70 chipset = 4.1W TDP)

AMD A6-5200 = Quad core 2GHz 20W TDP SoC

I will not be surprised if the A6-5200 is faster both in single thread and MultiThread at lower power consumption. Also, A6-5200 has a tone of features that Celeron 1007U lacks.

A6-5200 is in another league, there is no comparison between the two and its only natural to be more expensive vs the Celeron 1007U.

Edit: For once again, it seems that GIGABYTE GA-C1007UN-D can only be found in US and not in Europe.

multithreaded, definitely but single threaded I wouldn't bet on it...

as for the value of the chip vs. the celeron, the a6-5200 has much more features: UVD[bluray decode], VCE, 150+gflop gpu, quad x86 cores, soc configuration, avx & a bunch of extra instructions, decent opencl, dx 11 and decent power consumption...it should definitely be worth the premium over the celeron...

 

[cyrusfox]

Those prices I posted are for Japan retail, which you should know is significantly more expensive then stateside volume prices(example- MSI R7970 BE: Rakuten(Japan) = $630 Newegg= $455)

I would expect prices to start at $100 and for the more premium motherboards(onboard wifi,bluetooth, fancy heatsink,etc..) to end up around $200. Probably going to have to wait till october till we have some decent selection.

 

[NTMBK]

multithreaded, definitely but single threaded I wouldn't bet on it...

The Celeron is missing a lot of things that make Ivy Bridge fast. It's extremely low clocked, with no AVX support, no turbo boost and a smaller than normal cache (2MB). 2GHz Jaguar should certainly be competitive even in single threaded- but it does make me wish AMD had got Turbo Core working on these parts...

 

[krumme]

Kabini price tells me that either it is not as cheap as you think it is or AMD is really gorging on price.

Well at aprox 110mm2, we are at aprox. 540 DPW as i can calculate using tool like: http://www.silicon-edge.co.uk/j/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68

For a waferprice of 2000-2500 usd. thats about 4-5 usd pcx sans packaging. Its damn cheap thats for sure.
We are well below 10usd for the marginal cost.

But look at the numbers mrmt - its the new world, and the maturity of the market. The real deal about the AMD-Intel settlement was excactly to produce outside GF. Its scalability and its dirt cheap. Flexible, low risk. Whatever. Its a no brainer for a company the size of AMD.

And ofcource they are having a high price. Who wouldnt. Nobody in this world price their products by production cost. By "gorging",- didnt you mean profit maximising? - Is Intel "gorging" on 80% of their portfolio - i havnt heard you say that?

But a simple solution for us consumers was like i wrote - just wait. They cant keep those prices with BT comming imho.

 

[aigomorla]

bad prices sony's fault?

On a more serious note...

The prices dont make sense to me as well.
Also once broadwell hits the road.. i dont think the A5-5200 will stand a fighting chance.
Cuz for sure intel wont price that combo for more then 150.

Unless its a joint mofia movement just to hike up all PC parts prices.

I would expect prices to start at $100 and for the more premium motherboards(onboard wifi,bluetooth, fancy heatsink,etc..) to end up around $200. Probably going to have to wait till october till we have some decent selection.

that makes more sense... a lot more sense...

 

[krumme]

bad prices sony's fault?

On a more serious note...

The prices dont make sense to me as well.
Also once broadwell hits the road.. i dont think the A5-5200 will stand a fighting chance.
Cuz for sure intel wont price that combo for more then 150.

Unless its a joint mofia movement just to hike up all PC parts prices.



that makes more sense... a lot more sense...

Broadwell for 150 usd with mb combo?

Btw its nearly a year out. Thats a long time.

 

[TrulyUncouth]

Intel Celeron 1007U = Dual core 1.5GHz 17W TDP (NM70 chipset = 4.1W TDP)

AMD A6-5200 = Quad core 2GHz 20W TDP SoC

I will not be surprised if the A6-5200 is faster both in single thread and MultiThread at lower power consumption. Also, A6-5200 has a tone of features that Celeron 1007U lacks.

A6-5200 is in another league, there is no comparison between the two and its only natural to be more expensive vs the Celeron 1007U.

Edit: For once again, it seems that GIGABYTE GA-C1007UN-D can only be found in US and not in Europe.

A6-5200 at 2ghz is identical single-thread(In cinebench 11.5) to a core 2 duo su7300 at 1.73ghz. Using that as a baseline I would be willing to bet that the Ivy Bridge celeron has equal or better single-thread performance. Graphics wise though, the Kabini would probably stomp the celeron. Assuming pricing is only $20-30 more it would be a no-brainer me... Kabini all the way.

 

[Madpacket]

Prices usually always start out high and then settle down after a few months. I suspect by by xmas prices will hit 90-120 US for the 2Ghz quad core Kabini's. Personally I'm disappointed we're not getting turbo on these chips to help erase any Intel single core performance advantages so I'll probably wait until rev.2 before building these for my customers.

 

[AtenRa]

A6-5200 at 2ghz is identical single-thread(In cinebench 11.5) to a core 2 duo su7300 at 1.73ghz. Using that as a baseline I would be willing to bet that the Ivy Bridge celeron has equal or better single-thread performance. Graphics wise though, the Kabini would probably stomp the celeron. Assuming pricing is only $20-30 more it would be a no-brainer me... Kabini all the way.

Cinebench is heavily Intel Optimized, if the single thread in that benchmark is so close between the two, then it will be higher for the Kabini in the rest of the apps. But even if single thread performance of A6-5200 is within 10% of the Celeron 1007U the MT performance is in another dimension.

Clearly for low power (less than 20W), A6-5200 is the clear winner both in CPU and iGPU performance. A lot of people will be able to do light work with those SoCs at a very low power usage. Intel doesnt have any competitive solution at that price/performance/power as of now.

Also, A6-5200 will operate at 100% performance with a single 8GB 1600MHz memory stick. Both Celeron 1007U and BayTrail ATOM will need dual stick memory in order to have 100% performance, raising the total cost of the platform.

 

[strata8]

Cinebench is heavily Intel Optimized, if the single thread in that benchmark is so close between the two, then it will be higher for the Kabini in the rest of the apps. But even if single thread performance of A6-5200 is within 10% of the Celeron 1007U the MT performance is in another dimension.

Clearly for low power (less than 20W), A6-5200 is the clear winner both in CPU and iGPU performance. A lot of people will be able to do light work with those SoCs at a very low power usage. Intel doesnt have any competitive solution at that price/performance/power as of now.

The 1007U will beat the A6-5200 in single-thread Cinebench by ~25%, while the A6-5200 will pull ahead by 60% in the multi-threaded test. GPU performance in the A6-5200 should be about 50-70% better.

We don't really know how much the price will be (apart from that Japanese listing), so you can't make price-performance comparisons yet.

Also, A6-5200 will operate at 100% performance with a single 8GB 1600MHz memory stick. Both Celeron 1007U and BayTrail ATOM will need dual stick memory in order to have 100% performance, raising the total cost of the platform.

2x4GB isn't more expensive than 1x8GB.

 

[Abwx]

The 1007U will beat the A6-5200 in single-thread Cinebench by ~25%, while the A6-5200 will pull ahead by 60% in the multi-threaded test.

But you wont use CB in ST configuration , isnt it , so the ST
number is totaly irrelevant and should not even been used
for caracterisation of the CPUs perfs , at least for this application ,
so the final result is that Kabini is better in CB.