First Ryzen 7 iMac benchmarks?

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Now back to the IMAC Ryzen stuff - Its fake.
PAYOGru.png


Base Freq doesn't match

Cache amount doesn't match either.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/4568987

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/compute/1279306

Compare them yourself

Seriously - why wasn't this the first thing you checked?


EDIT: My mistake the first result I picked for some reason had different Cache from normal chips - But the change in Base freq still stands

Lol. Geekbench has well known problems detecting frequencies and this is a obviously a test platform.

It might be fake, but you aren't doing anything here to disprove that... despite what you may believe.
 

Dayman1225

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2017
1,160
996
146
Well I doubt Apple has overclocked the chip.

Base freq is 3ghz and Boost is 3.7 at no point should it be 3.4 unless someone has Overclocked it and locked it to that frequency.

If there are other Turbo steps that may be affected the the temp/powerlimit that I am unaware of please, do let me know
 

Dayman1225

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2017
1,160
996
146
Last edited:

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
One more thing I might add - no chance in hell would Apple put Vega in a normal IMac when they currently have Iris pro or Radeon Pro 555/560 in them (21.5in) and 570/575/580(27in) - Relatively Low power parts(Highest power being Pro 580 with a TDP of 150W) - Something Vega 10 is not. The only IMac that is getting Vega is IMac PRO and that features upto 18core Xeons + Vega 10

This is actually more evidence for why they want to use the 1700.


If they can use a highly binned 1700 plus a Vega Nano discrete card with HBM2 they might be able to fit the whole thing into an iMac. The massive increase in compute power would vastly increase the performance and certainly make up for any lower ST performance that the 1700 might have vs a 7700k or 8700k.

It's starting to make more and more sense that these iMac numbers are legit.

Also remember nobody has given me a good reason why Apple would want to spend $300-400 per 8700k vs $~200-250 for AMD 1700 processors. They wouldn't even have enough 8700k for apple to sell 1,000 units at launch.

Another thing, remember that in the past Apple always got intel's Top SKU first. That happened with Broadwell and skylake... but suddenly stopped with Kaby lake. Why?
 

dahorns

Senior member
Sep 13, 2013
550
83
91
This is actually more evidence for why they want to use the 1700.


If they can use a highly binned 1700 plus a Vega Nano discrete card with HBM2 they might be able to fit the whole thing into an iMac. The massive increase in compute power would vastly increase the performance and certainly make up for any lower ST performance that the 1700 might have vs a 7700k or 8700k.

It's starting to make more and more sense that these iMac numbers are legit.

Also remember nobody has given me a good reason why Apple would want to spend $300-400 per 8700k vs $~200-250 for AMD 1700 processors. They wouldn't even have enough 8700k for apple to sell 1,000 units at launch.

Another thing, remember that in the past Apple always got intel's Top SKU first. That happened with Broadwell and skylake... but suddenly stopped with Kaby lake. Why?

Apple wouldnt be paying retail prices...
 

Dayman1225

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2017
1,160
996
146
Also remember nobody has given me a good reason why Apple would want to spend $300-400 per 8700k

You don't seriously think that Apple pays that price for these things - do you?

Vega Nano discrete

Which is no where to be seen - Just like normal Vega.

It's starting to make more and more sense that these iMac numbers are legit.

No, it's really not - BASED ON TDP ALONE - a 30w delta vs 8700K, would not allow them to fit Vega into such a form factor. Even if Vega 10 was lets say scaled down to 150w. 4096 Stream processors at a much lower clock - Like Fury Nano. It would likely have every single problem that the Fury Nano had - Power Throttled - Thermal Throttle. I personally do not think Apple will switch to AMD for CPUs anytime soon - if they do indeed switch CPUs in the future its more than likely to be their own INHOUSE ARM cores (A11 etc)

Another thing, remember that in the past Apple always got intel's Top SKU first. That happened with Broadwell and skylake... but suddenly stopped with Kaby lake. Why?

That's upto speculation I suppose? I don't follow Apple much so I wasn't even aware this was a thing.

Intel will not give up the contract with Apple anytime soon willingly at least to AMD - Intel would likely offer even bigger discounts or even pay Apple to keep them(Which I wouldn't bet on)
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Apple wouldnt be paying retail prices...

They wouldn't be from AMD either. In fact, AMD is notorious for negotiating extremely low-margin contracts at low prices. Intel on the other hand must maintain 60% GM or its stock will crash and it will no longer be able to acquire more companies.


You don't seriously think that Apple pays that price for these things - do you?



Which is no where to be seen - Just like normal Vega.



No, it's really not - BASED ON TDP ALONE - a 30w delta vs 8700K, would not allow them to fit Vega into such a form factor. Even if Vega 10 was lets say scaled down to 150w. 4096 Stream processors at a much lower clock - Like Fury Nano. It would likely have every single problem that the Fury Nano had - Power Throttled - Thermal Throttle. I personally do not think Apple will switch to AMD for CPUs anytime soon - if they do indeed switch CPUs in the future its more than likely to be their own INHOUSE ARM cores (A11 etc)



That's upto speculation I suppose? I don't follow Apple much so I wasn't even aware this was a thing.

Intel will not give up the contract with Apple anytime soon willingly at least to AMD - Intel would likely offer even bigger discounts or even pay Apple to keep them(Which I wouldn't bet on)

You don't seriously think Apple would be able to negotiate lower prices from Intel than they would from AMD, do you?

Did you even read the benchmark you were trying to disprove? It says "Vega XT Prototype Compute Accelerator" with 8GB of memory running at 1.6Ghz. Does that sound sort of like a Vega Nano to you? It does to me.

You are trying to calculate all this based on consumer parts. Apple would be able to get skus that run at 70% of the normal TDP of the 1700 just through binning. The same cannot be done for the 8700k because it is a much higher clocked processor that is very low production at the moment.


Think about this - If AMD offers the next iMac with an 8 Core 3.4Ghz AMD Ryzen processor and a 8GB Vega Nano with ~12TF compute, would that be a huge improvement compared to just another refresh with 6 core 8700k instead of 4 core 6700k and the exact same GPU? They won't be able to do the same kind of binning with Intel parts and they will be massively more expensive.


The more I think about this Ryzen iMac, the more it makes sense. Intel probably wouldn't even mind because they could argue they are the "Pro" version of this iMac product (i know they would care but it would be a good excuse).
 

greatnoob

Senior member
Jan 6, 2014
968
395
136
Apple wouldn't use Ryzen because their desktop and laptop products have already been heavily invested in TB3 (MacBooks with no ports other than Thunderbolt). It makes no sense at all to go with Ryzen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: beginner99

wilds

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
2,059
674
136
How cost effective would it be for Apple to invest in AMD? They have been with Intel for years and have had supported their hardware since 10.5.

Getting AMD to run on Mac OS was always relatively simple for a hackintosh, but for Apple to support it, is a big investment. I do think Ryzen is a nice fit for the Mac, especially with a Vega APU.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,991
4,946
136
You're showing me 5 power consumption tests that don't have a ending (Work done - I.E points to represent score) so we can't exactly draw efficiency from that, can we?

We can, using the same software as Gamernexus :

91875.png

The 1700 takes 10% more time than the 1700X, so what happened to Blender at GNX, they selected a "better" file to render..?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ryzenenthusiast
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,852
146
Apple wouldn't use Ryzen because their desktop and laptop products have already been heavily invested in TB3 (MacBooks with no ports other than Thunderbolt). It makes no sense at all to go with Ryzen.

Intel removed royalties from TB, so it would just cost whatever the controller would be. Not sure what Apple has been using for that thus far, but they could add it to boards without that much issue (already were even for Intel after all), or even get AMD to integrate it without too much issue.

I don't think we'll see laptops move from Intel CPU as Intel still has an advantage there and will for some time. Unless Apple goes for an AMD APU for stronger GPU in lower end products (where higher end ones would have dGPU), and also to save money. But I find that doubtful, and so far AMD hasn't even begun to position themselves for laptop market in a meanginful way. That might change with Zen based APUs, but I still think we're far enough away that it won't be anytime soon for Apple to consider switching. Plus Intel has a host of advantages they could leverage (one being a modem which will be more and more important and Intel is definitely probably going to start integrating, and is going to be a glaring weakness for AMD as mobile connectivity becomes more integral into tablets and laptops), not to mention all the development work put into maximizing power/efficiency of Intel platform in Apple's software (same is true on Windows actually as well, as seen on the variety of good ultrabook or 2-in-1 designs by most OEMs, plus the Surface line, which a lot of the growing pains of the Surface line has been on getting the software and hardware optimized).

AMD has made great progress with Ryzen, but they still have plenty of area they need to catch up on (while also striving to stay competitive in basic ways that Ryzen massively improved their situation).

How cost effective would it be for Apple to invest in AMD? They have been with Intel for years and have had supported their hardware since 10.5.

Getting AMD to run on Mac OS was always relatively simple for a hackintosh, but for Apple to support it, is a big investment. I do think Ryzen is a nice fit for the Mac, especially with a Vega APU.

I think they already are as seen by them sticking with AMD GPUs when Nvidia's definitely have a major edge in perf/W. There's also been some rumors/hints that AMD has been helping Apple develop their own GPU. Apple tends to prefer practical "investments" where they are happy to give a company money (that will help them develop their products), but Apple wants something in return.

I'm not sure exactly what their relationships are (Apple might just be keeping good relations so that they don't let any one company have major leverage over them), as there's been rumors that Apple was looking to ditch Intel (and go with their own SoC), but there's also been evidence that Apple has been evaluating AMD platforms all along (they had Bulldozer based ones, which needless to say Apple I'm sure wasn't too impressed with, other than maybe the one of the APUs for a budget setup, that would let them keep profits high on something like the Macbook whilst offering decent overall balanced performance, worse CPU but better GPU). And some of it comes down to money/deals (which is probably the bigger factor on why Apple has ditched Nvidia). Intel and Apple seem to still have a good working relationship. Although I think that also to some extent shows that Apple does things to try and prevent any one company from having leverage (by using some Intel modems to combat Qualcomm; another area you can see if Apple getting LG to get into OLED production in phones to provide competition with Samsung).

I agree that all the development put into maximizing Intel platforms is going to be tough for AMD to overcome, but I don't think it's a major issue, as any Apple product that AMD is going to be in, is probably going to be more on the low end (where cheap AMD APUs with decent CPU but strong GPU performance lets them offer good overall performance for cheaper than Intel, think the base Macbook, maybe Mac Mini, low end iMac), or where AMD would be able to leverage their advantage right now (core counts, memory channels, and PCIe lanes) where AMD actually is competitive in efficiency and performance. Think Apple offering an Epyc based Mac Pro (not too likely I'd guess, but there's potential there, and it would easily crush the core/thread counts Intel is currently offering, not to mention memory and PCIe input/output for stuff like storage). Essentially, going AMD would let Apple get most of the profit margin that Intel and Nvidia reap themselves while offering real advantages for their end users. The bonus is that it helps prop up a competitor to both (a strong AMD competing with Intel and Nvidia is good for Apple, even if they don't use them).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: wilds and greatnoob

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,810
1,159
136
What do you guys think the base clocks of the upcoming Ryzen Refresh on 12nm for the 1700 is going to be, 3.4GHz?
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
275
81
Mac Mini's remoured refresh would be a great place to débute the new AMD APU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wilds

rainy

Senior member
Jul 17, 2013
523
453
136
What do you guys think the base clocks of the upcoming Ryzen Refresh on 12nm for the 1700 is going to be, 3.4GHz?

In general, I'm expecting 300-400 MHz higher base clock for Pinnacle Ridge, however for this particular model it could be 400-500 MHz.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
136
Mac Mini's remoured refresh would be a great place to débute the new AMD APU.

I agree that Mac Mini would be a great place for Apple to get give Ryzen APU a shot, maybe even the best place to try it, and I would actually be interested in buying a Ryzen Mac Mini.

But really, I don't see that happening soon. I would love it, but I don't see it until Ryzen Mobile proves itself and gets production volume up, way up.

As far as the first post. That is just a Hackintosh. Do some searches and you will see that Vega in a Hackintosh produces those results.

Ultimately nothing but wishful thinking to see here at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wilds

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,437
1,659
136
Apple wouldn't use Ryzen because their desktop and laptop products have already been heavily invested in TB3 (MacBooks with no ports other than Thunderbolt). It makes no sense at all to go with Ryzen.
Doesn't TB3 exclusivity die next year. Also doesn't Apple have a part as a co-developer for that Exclusivity to have their partners include that tech in their devices? So it could be a pinnacle ridge test mule and there might also be a back door with Apples part of the deal to allow AMD to include it early.
 

TahoeDust

Senior member
Nov 29, 2011
557
404
136
I don't think intel will ever use Ryzen in any of their products. Their customers want premium products, not the value leader...

lawd-stir.jpg


BTW...this is not a troll. Do you think if Apple switched to AMD, their less informed customers would feel like it was a step back? Consumers are very comfortable with the intel brand, and AMDs reputation is still not back for the average buyer.
 
Last edited:

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
1,651
473
136
I don't think intel will ever use Ryzen in any of their products. Their customers want premium products, not the value leader...

lawd-stir.jpg


BTW...this is not a troll. Do you think if Apple switched to AMD, their less informed customers would feel like it was a step back? Consumers are very comfortable with the intel brand, and AMDs reputation is still not back for the average buyer.


Of course it's a troll, and your disclaimer doesn't nullify it. As far as the average buyer goes, they go into a retail shop and buy what is on the shelf and skewed by what the sales person steers them to buy. And intel's retail edge program in turn skews the sales person.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,437
1,659
136
I don't think intel will ever use Ryzen in any of their products. Their customers want premium products, not the value leader...

BTW...this is not a troll. Do you think if Apple switched to AMD, their less informed customers would feel like it was a step back? Consumers are very comfortable with the intel brand, and AMDs reputation is still not back for the average buyer.

I doubt they ever would either, Why would they?

As for Apple using AMD have you dealt with their user base or seen how they handle the masses? People care about the end product. Not even really performance. If it looks good, feels good, and has an Apple symbol on it, it's good enough for them. Worst case scenario they will talk about how great AMD is and that Ryzen finally gives them what they need for their systems. Their users will buy it.

Besides Apple actually has a good relationship with AMD and has for the most part used their GPU's for over a decade now over Nvidia's. They have tried at least twice to use AMD but performance, power usage, and production capability has kept them from doing so. The original move to x86 was very close to happening on an AMD CPU. In the End the big reason now is Apple doesn't nearly have the negotiating power that they would have with AMD when dealing with Intel.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,730
16,035
146
Follow up,

Two robots:

Robot A consumes 5w continously for 5 minutes while moving a 5kg rock 1 mile.

Robot B consumes 20w continously for 5 minutes while moving a 5kg rock 10 miles.

Which is more efficient?

Ha this is a trick question.

If robot B starts off at rest at and covers 10 miles in 5 minutes it's generating 96W while only consuming 20W even neglecting friction and air resistance. So it violates the laws of thermodynamics.

If instead robot B does not accelerate but merely cruises at 120mph for 10 miles then when making the following assumptions:
  • Massless robot
  • Low rolling resistance (steal wheel on train rail low)
  • roughly spherical 5kg "rock"
And assuming the robot is using 20W to overcome drag and friction means the sphere must be very small, resulting in a "rock" that is about 40 times denser than the densest element.

So I don't know what are you doing with a massless, thermodynamics defying robot carrying a dense unknown substance at high speeds over long distances but I'm on to you.
7G3zITG.png


Wait what does this have to do with CPUs?

;)
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
7,450
17,764
136
So I don't know what are you doing with a massless, thermodynamics defying robot carrying a dense unknown substance at high speeds over long distances but I'm on to you.

Wait what does this have to do with CPUs?
It perfectly describes how a fanboy views the favorite brand CPU: as an energy generating, heat consuming, revenue doubling piece of silicon.

Bow to my Central Processing God or face the laws of physics, you organic neural net!