First Real Attempt At Watercooling -- Advice Needed

[MiRai]

DO NOT GET SILVER FROM ANY WATERCOOLING STORE.

AGAIN... DO NOT GET SILVER FROM ANY WATERCOOLING STORE.

Do not trust the purity of it, because there has been a LOT of bad batches of impure silver flooded on the market.

unless the store actually buys the pure silver sheets, and cuts them themselves do not trust silver from any store.

if you would like to use silver, get a 99.9999999% pure silver sheet and cut it into a coil.

most of the vendors who have voided warrenty because of silver have done so because of the bad batches which were flooded.

Sterling Silver is NOT PURE silver.


instead use a antimicrob additive, if you do not wish to go the route of purchasing the silver sheet yourself, or look for an original "iandh Silver coil"
That is the ONLY brand i will trust.

This information would have been nice to know well ahead of time, but I can't find anything on the internet to back up what you're saying except for one or two people at the now-abandoned FrozenCPU site.

I have a kill coil, so I guess I'll use that instead, but from what I've read the kill coil can end up vibrating in the pump/res unit which would be extremely annoying. =\

I doubt you'll be disappointed then.

Guess it depends on what you consider low voltage in the end.

Did you see this review from Tom's Retail boxed with 5 cpu's tested?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/overclocking-retail-intel-core-i7-5960x-cpu,4237.html

Good luck on the adventure!

Between 4.1 and 4.2 will be faster per core than your 4930K@4.4Ghz. I doubt you'll have too much trouble pulling off 4.2GHz. My daily 4.5 overclock is roughly on par per core with my 3930K at it's balls to the wall 5.1GHz bench setting. Depending upon the particular test of course.

Good stuff. I'd be perfectly happy if I could reach 4.2GHz on the 8-core with < 1.3v, but if I can reach 4.5GHz at 1.3v then I'd also be comfortable with that seeing as the water should be able to keep the temps under control.

Unless you are doing rigid tubing throughout, I wouldn't worry with it for just the GPUs. I went with these. They worked out very nice. Bitspower also makes them, but I couldn't find a single place that had them in the length I needed in white, so the Swiftechs got the nod (much less expensive).

http://www.swiftech.com/connectors.aspx

I agree with YBS1 in the connector. I use the same type between my 2 R9 290s with EK blocks and it works great. Much easier than trying to cut EXACT sizes and hoping they fit.

I would have probably started with rigid tubing had I realized that you don't actually need to make those pretty bends with a heat gun (something I wasn't all that confident in doing as a beginner). I know that the pretty bends look... well, prettier, but I was thinking that I could just learn how to cut it and work with it, while using a lot of 90 degree connectors and what not. I also understand that that all those connectors will probably end up restricting some of the flow, but in my opinion it's all about learning what does and doesn't work for you. Not only that, but if the temps are still under control, even with a bit of restriction, then I'm okay with that.

I was thinking either EK or XSPC waterblocks for the GPUs, and both of those come with their own special "spacer" for between each block, so I should be good.

My only fear with cooling the GPUs is if I have to RMA one of them for whatever reason, because then the entire system is pretty much down and the loop will need to be deconstructed until a replacement comes in, or modified while that one GPU is absent. I guess I just have to cross my fingers and hope that I can continue my streak of never having to RMA a GPU. ::crosses fingers::

 

[Kenmitch]

Good stuff. I'd be perfectly happy if I could reach 4.2GHz on the 8-core with < 1.3v, but if I can reach 4.5GHz at 1.3v then I'd also be comfortable with that seeing as the water should be able to keep the temps under control.

Based on the pricing on siliconlottery.com I'd think you'll get closer to 4.5GHz. Seems like only 4.6GHz and higher have a price premium. Of course anybody close to a microcenter would roll the dice I'd imagine and play their own silicon lottery.

You can put the kill coil in the hose also. Watching review videos of the pump/res combo the water looks pretty calm so probably would be OK anyways.

The GPU rma scenario would suck. They do look much sexier under water though. Maybe once you decide to add them in use a quick connect in and out of them. Would suck to have to mess with them again but at least it wouldn't be as messy. When you do add them are you going the in between block or over the top style?

 

[aigomorla]

look at all the vendors warrenty info..
they all exclude silver.

i still wouldnt trust any kill coil in general.
As i said most are sourced from china, where a flood of impure silver was mixed.
This makes most of the silver kill coils not viable.

if you have no idea what i mean this is how i do my kill coils now.
http://www.riogrande.com/Product/999-Fine-Silver-Plain-Strip-Wire,-Dead-Soft/101001?Pos=1

buy a sheet like that... then cut them into thin strips and wrap them around a thin circular object to get a coil.

This mesh is also not a bad idea:
http://www.riogrande.com/Product/999-Fine-Silver-Micro_dash_Mesh,-Medium-Mesh/100103?Pos=9

the key thing is... it has to be .99+ pure, otherwise u risk having iron in it..
and when you have iron mixed with other materials in the absence of a corrosion inhibitor, well that's asking for trouble.

 

[MiRai]

A few more questions now that I'm further along in the process...

First, the reservoir I received has some residue on the inside of it. XSPC advises not to open the reservoir since they sealed it and pressure tested it at their factory, but I've rinsed this thing a few times now and it's not going away. It's not all that visible when the interior of the reservoir is wet, so it may not be a big deal? What do you guys think?

Second, can I run just a biocide instead of silver with my fancy steam distilled water? I can't find any news about impure silver flooding any market, or anybody's kill coil failing them, but now I'm paranoid.

Either way, what's the difference between these two?

Petra'sTech PT Nuke Concentrated Biocide
Petra'sTech PT Nuke PHN Concentrated Biocide

I'm assuming the PHN version since it says "primarily geared toward systems running straight distilled water," and I'm running distilled water. Did I guess correctly?

Also, I'm not all that certain how many drops of that stuff I'm supposed to be adding to my loop. I completely understand that it says "add 4 drops per 1L of coolant for approx. 2ppm," but I honestly have no idea how much water will be in my loop. Is it bad if I end up adding too much?

 

[guskline]

MiRai, RELAX! You are worrying WAY too much about this. Get your loop built. Purge all the air (will probably a few days) and add a drop or two of biocide.

 

[MiRai]

MiRai, RELAX! You are worrying WAY too much about this. Get your loop built. Purge all the air (will probably a few days) and add a drop or two of biocide.

I won't lie... I am worried that things just aren't going to work.

I finally got the CPU block mounted last night, as well as figured out how to mount the pump/res. However, I couldn't mount it because I had to do some further cable management, as well as grab some washers from the store. Only one of the pre-drilled holes in my chassis will line up with the pump/res bracket, and while that one screw does a damn good job at holding it in place, I went ahead and added some industrial strength velcro to its mount area which holds it incredibly well.

I also need slightly longer radiator screws to mount it into my chassis, but assuming I get the PT Nuke sometime soon-ish that I ordered this morning, then I might have a functioning loop before the end of the week.

Unfortunately, I am going out of town for this weekend, but I would like to have the loop filled with water so that I can see if there are any leaks by the time I get back (yes, it will be turned off with no power applied while I'm gone).

I'm still hoping that this residue in the reservoir won't show up when the red LED illuminates the water. =\

 

[aigomorla]

A few more questions now that I'm further along in the process...

First, the reservoir I received has some residue on the inside of it. XSPC advises not to open the reservoir since they sealed it and pressure tested it at their factory, but I've rinsed this thing a few times now and it's not going away. It's not all that visible when the interior of the reservoir is wet, so it may not be a big deal? What do you guys think?

Second, can I run just a biocide instead of silver with my fancy steam distilled water? I can't find any news about impure silver flooding any market, or anybody's kill coil failing them, but now I'm paranoid.

Either way, what's the difference between these two?

Petra'sTech PT Nuke Concentrated Biocide
Petra'sTech PT Nuke PHN Concentrated Biocide

I'm assuming the PHN version since it says "primarily geared toward systems running straight distilled water," and I'm running distilled water. Did I guess correctly?

Also, I'm not all that certain how many drops of that stuff I'm supposed to be adding to my loop. I completely understand that it says "add 4 drops per 1L of coolant for approx. 2ppm," but I honestly have no idea how much water will be in my loop. Is it bad if I end up adding too much?

what type of residue?
can you take a picture and post it, i can possibly help you on how to clean it.
Whatever you do, do not put alcohol inside it!
DO NOT USE ALCOHOL.. it will dry out the oring and cause it to fail.

as for the PT nuke... the average system will use anywhere from 3-4 drops.
So u are safe within the 4 drop limit.

Nothing bad will happen if you have a tiny bit excess, so i would just put in like 3-4 drops.

 

[MiRai]

what type of residue?
can you take a picture and post it, i can possibly help you on how to clean it.

Here are a few shots I took with my old camera. They're not all that great, and I recorded some video of it yesterday when I pulled it out of the box, but I don't know how that came out because things are set up for documenting everything I'm doing at the moment.

There are two areas of residue—one ring near the top, and then the area near the bottom. I must stress that these are not finger prints or anything like that (at least not on the outside). The reservoir rotates around and is made of glass, so it was very easy to wipe down the entire thing with a nice microfiber cloth. Everything that (sorta) shows up in the pictures is on the inside of the reservoir.

Again, it only shows up in the light, and it seems to go away when the interior glass is wet. After rinsing it out a few times yesterday I thought that it was gone, but later that night I noticed that it was still there. It wouldn't be that big of a deal, except that I plan on illuminating the lightbar in the middle of the reservoir, so I'm worried that it will show up.

Whatever you do, do not put alcohol inside it!
DO NOT USE ALCOHOL.. it will dry out the oring and cause it to fail.

I've put nothing in it except for distilled water a few times, then shaken it and let the water out of it.

as for the PT nuke... the average system will use anywhere from 3-4 drops.
So u are safe within the 4 drop limit.

Nothing bad will happen if you have a tiny bit excess, so i would just put in like 3-4 drops.

Roger that. I know that I should probably add it to my loop the moment I have water in there, but I have no idea if this stuff I ordered from Sidewinder Computers is going to make it here before I leave for the weekend. I'd like to have water in the loop prior to leaving so that I can see if there are any leaks when I return, so... Is it a big deal to add the PT Nuke ~7 days after the water is in the loop? If so, then I won't be filling it until that stuff gets here.

Thanks, again.

 

[Kenmitch]

Roger that. I know that I should probably add it to my loop the moment I have water in there, but I have no idea if this stuff I ordered from Sidewinder Computers is going to make it here before I leave for the weekend. I'd like to have water in the loop prior to leaving so that I can see if there are any leaks when I return, so... Is it a big deal to add the PT Nuke ~7 days after the water is in the loop? If so, then I won't be filling it until that stuff gets here

I left a 1/2 of a gallon jug of distilled water in my garage for 7-8 months and it stayed crystal clear.


Maybe distilled water with a TINY bit of dish soap to clean it? Probably what I'd try.

 

[aigomorla]

that white stuff is going to be difficult to remove unless u take apart the res.

a tube res is not very difficult to open, you just screw off the top.
However seems like a photon series, which is designed to have a CCFL or LED lights in the center, which may make things tricky as those are also sealed.

If it really bothers you, then i would open it up and take a paper towel and wipe it off.
Its most likely left over plasticiser which is stuck on the walls, and is very difficult to remove.

 

[Aristotelian]

Just to flag my thanks both to the original poster (I'm used to seeing your username with a very, very different avatar elsewhere!) and to all of those who have replied. I'm planning something like this with an In Win D-Frame but the S-Frame linked above by Kenmitch is the best looking PC I have ever seen. And I think I could get the wife in on this by asking her if she has a preferred colour scheme!

 

[aigomorla]

Just to flag my thanks both to the original poster (I'm used to seeing your username with a very, very different avatar elsewhere!) and to all of those who have replied. I'm planning something like this with an In Win D-Frame but the S-Frame linked above by Kenmitch is the best looking PC I have ever seen. And I think I could get the wife in on this by asking her if she has a preferred colour scheme!

the one kenmitch linked also uses rigged tubing which is VERY difficult to make.

Its not something where i would recommend a newbie to ever attempt, nor a novice.

You shouldnt use riggid tubing unless its a show piece in which u have no intentions of ever swaping parts out, as it gets even more complicated if you ever need to RMA.

 

[MiRai]

Maybe distilled water with a TINY bit of dish soap to clean it? Probably what I'd try.

I'll try it tonight. I've been painting (plasti-dipping) things for two days now, and I'm not going to be happy if I have to redo some of these pieces.

that white stuff is going to be difficult to remove unless u take apart the res.

a tube res is not very difficult to open, you just screw off the top.
However seems like a photon series, which is designed to have a CCFL or LED lights in the center, which may make things tricky as those are also sealed.

If it really bothers you, then i would open it up and take a paper towel and wipe it off.
Its most likely left over plasticiser which is stuck on the walls, and is very difficult to remove.

Right, it is an XSPC model with the light tube, so I'd rather not open it up. If i can't get it off with warm soapy water, then I guess I'm going to have to live with it. =\

Just to flag my thanks both to the original poster (I'm used to seeing your username with a very, very different avatar elsewhere!) and to all of those who have replied.

Haha!

I'm planning something like this with an In Win D-Frame but the S-Frame linked above by Kenmitch is the best looking PC I have ever seen. And I think I could get the wife in on this by asking her if she has a preferred colour scheme!

Your options are slightly limited at the moment unless you know where to pick up the red/black version of the S-Frame since it was a limited run of 500 units. There is a non-limited gold/black version that is still for sale at a few places, but it also seems to be getting a little rare.

Of course, you could always just paint it a different color, but when I was first going to do that, it was going to be a lot more work than I wanted it to be because of all the edges and what not. I'm pretty glad I ended up keeping it red/black for the time being.

Its not something where i would recommend a newbie to ever attempt, nor a novice.

You shouldnt use riggid tubing unless its a show piece in which u have no intentions of ever swaping parts out, as it gets even more complicated if you ever need to RMA.

While I certainly looked into it, I definitely didn't want to try it for my first attempt at DIY WC'ing, but like I said in a prior post, I think I'd like to try it out eventually. I also gave a bit of thought to the fact that if I ever have to RMA one of the GPUs, that during the time of initial setup, I'll measure out for 2-way, as well as 3-way SLI, so that if a GPU has to go missing temporarily, I'm able to just switch out some tubing with little downtime.

 

[YBS1]

FYI.... Vinyl dye works better than anything else on plastics unless you just want to be able to remove it. You can get it at most auto parts stores.

 

[moonbogg]

OP, I used about 4 or 5 drops of "Petra's Tech PT Nuke Cu Concentrated Biocide (10mL)" and my water is still clear. I expect it will be fine and remain free from sea monsters.

 

[MiRai]

I don't know what Sidewinder is doing with my order for the PT Nuke, but can anyone recommend any other sort of biocide? Preferably one from Performance-PCs (or Amazon) since they are actually shipping orders that get placed. Unfortunately, neither one of them have PT Nuke for some reason.

How about Mayhem's Biocide Extreme?

 

[Aristotelian]

the one kenmitch linked also uses rigged tubing which is VERY difficult to make.

Its not something where i would recommend a newbie to ever attempt, nor a novice.

You shouldnt use riggid tubing unless its a show piece in which u have no intentions of ever swaping parts out, as it gets even more complicated if you ever need to RMA.

This is the thing. I have never done a watercooling build but if I'm going to put all this time and money into something I want it to be elite. On swapping parts out - the videocards for my new build (likely Skylake-E + next gen Nvidia cards in SLI or tri-SLI) will be what get swapped out of a very overclocked 6 core intel CPU in the future. But I planned to have rigid pipes going to the top card, passing through all three (or two) cards to a rigid pipe (collecting) beneath, passing that to a radiator. So when I replace cards I'd have to get new water blocks and new pipes at the top and bottom. That's a price I'm willing to pay, especially considering that:

Your options are slightly limited at the moment unless you know where to pick up the red/black version of the S-Frame since it was a limited run of 500 units. There is a non-limited gold/black version that is still for sale at a few places, but it also seems to be getting a little rare.

Of course, you could always just paint it a different color, but when I was first going to do that, it was going to be a lot more work than I wanted it to be because of all the edges and what not. I'm pretty glad I ended up keeping it red/black for the time being.

I can find both the red/black version of the s-frame (EUR 850) and the gold/black version (EUR 830) for sale. If I'm spending more than 1000 USD on a computer case I want to make a super showy PC like the one Kenmitch linked, that I can also overclock the bejeezus out of

Plan is something like 27" or 30" 4k or 5k (hopefully freesync or gsync) monitor; a 6 core (or more if available) Intel CPU; at least 2 of the fastest NVidia cards in SLI (or AMD - depending on DX12 performance at 4k and up). Sometime late next year I guess, but I'm already planning it now.

If it's okay to PM you aigomoria I'll send you some designs I've come up with - really I'll just be waiting for the technology to get where I want it to build this.

 

[aigomorla]

I also gave a bit of thought to the fact that if I ever have to RMA one of the GPUs, that during the time of initial setup, I'll measure out for 2-way, as well as 3-way SLI, so that if a GPU has to go missing temporarily, I'm able to just switch out some tubing with little downtime.

SLI Bridge > Rigged Tubing..

()

every maker has there own bridge...
A bridge is more rigged then tubing, can support the weight of both cards to keep them parallel...
You just need to make sure you got the spacing done properly.. ie.. 1 card gap... 2 card gap... ect...

Also they allow different port location options to make your routing easier.

This is the thing. I have never done a watercooling build but if I'm going to put all this time and money into something I want it to be elite.

Well u see there is 2 categories of "Elite".

There is the BLING BLING ELITE, and there is the PERFORMANCE ELITE....
These 2 are antagonistic of each other usually.... as something goes to more performance, it loses some of the luster bling, unless u like seeing a complex network of rigged tubing all spaced out perfectly.
I suppose its all in the eyes of the person.

I have used rigged tubing once... and well, i kept it for 3 months tops, because unless u absolutely clean everything out to a mint and shine, you will get some deposits (Ie... like you res)
Then these deposits stick to rigged tubing as well, and well it looks ugly... like dust you can never get off....
Also i have always had the need to RMA something, or wanted to take something out, or move it... with soft tubing, you can just push the tube to one side, while as rigged... *SMALL HANDS REQUIRED*
I got tired of asking my friend who is a girl to stick her hand in this spot to pull out something, or put something in, as my hands are definitely not small.

You can also always drain the system and remove the tubing, however... that's a lot of coolant you need to remove, not to mention the amount of prep time required on hardware so water does not hit any components...
In general, most of the veterans in this hobby will not touch rigged tubing, and leave it to the moders who make show case PC's.

If it's okay to PM you aigomoria I'll send you some designs I've come up with - really I'll just be waiting for the technology to get where I want it to build this.

sure if its a very personal question, however i prefer you asking in the thread as it may help others who come across the same question.

 

[moonbogg]

The though of doing a rigid tubing build makes me feel nauseous. A basic tubing build is a lot of work already, although I am willing to bet the next time will be far easier.

 

[MrTeal]

The though of doing a rigid tubing build makes me feel nauseous. A basic tubing build is a lot of work already, although I am willing to bet the next time will be far easier.

Could be worse, at least you don't have to sweat the joints to pull parts out with rigid tube.

 

[dlerious]

I don't know what Sidewinder is doing with my order for the PT Nuke, but can anyone recommend any other sort of biocide? Preferably one from Performance-PCs (or Amazon) since they are actually shipping orders that get placed. Unfortunately, neither one of them have PT Nuke for some reason.

How about Mayhem's Biocide Extreme?

I used the EK-Koolant concentrate (mixed with distilled):
http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-ekoolant-evo-clear-concentrate-100ml.html

Here's a concentrate from XSPC:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/xspc-ecx-ultra-concentrate-coolant-uv-clear.html#Features

and a non concentrate that doesn't need mixing (I think most brands have a concentrate as well as a pre-mix solution - concentrate usually being 100ml)
http://www.performance-pcs.com/xspc-ec6-non-conductive-coolant-clear.html#Features

 

[aigomorla]

i don't like nor support premixes...
and to be honest, the only reasons why companys does them is because they make a hugh profit margin off them vs the watercooling gear.

but if you want to use a premix, hey, its your call...

However you'll never see me touch a premix coolant unless its mayhem's pearl coolant, because of the cool pearl effect.

 

[guskline]

Only distilled water and a few drops of biocide.

 

[MiRai]

Thanks for the replies on the biocide, but SW finally shipped my bottle of Petra's. I guess they were on vacation... or something? Nothing on their blog or frontpage had any information, but they're back and filling orders.

I'm trying to finish the cable management before I put any of the water-cooling components in place because it's easier to flip the chassis around with no liquid in it. Unfortunately, I've underestimated cable combs twice now, which means I'm stuck waiting for a third shipment which won't be here until Saturday. -_-

So, that means no water until next week. =\

 

[Rubycon]

Save $$$ and use distilled water for $1/gal from your local grocery store. Make sure it has the word "distilled" clearly printed on it. Filtered, purified, etc. are NOT the same thing!

Forget biocides, additives, etc. Completely un necessary. The silver plug is alright I suppose as long as you ensure it's in an area that gets good flow. A highly pure silver "kill coil" is far better.

The less you put in the water the better.

Tubing should be opaque or black like noprene. Forget compressions, use long barbs and secure with ss clamps such as Breeze brand.

It may look utilitarian, but you will keep your maint (read downtime) down far lower than any of these "boutique" solutions and have better temps at the same time.

Also, the Swiftech block is a poor choice. Very high backpressure and subpar performance. EK (copper/acetel, forget nickel!), newest HeatKiller, etc. are far superior designs with lower backpressure and core temps.

And shame on Terry recommending Mayhem's. Ugh^22! That aurora junk will really mess up everything it touches in time. It's fine for "drag racing", i.e. use at a trade show and then when you come back home throw everything in the circuit away. That stuff is bad news. Most dyes are but that stuff...might as well put valve grinding compound in your crank case oil!