First pics of the Baby Bronco

[Scarpozzi]

Starting MSRP for a 2020 4Runner is $36,120 - what are you comparing to?

Depending on trim level and included packages at time of purchase the new Bronco price range can reach $60K. Ouch! I would expect that to easily climb to $75 by the time dealers sell to the idiots willing to pay more than the manufacture thinks its worth.

I was looking at the Black Diamond and Outer Banks and instantly thought they were undersized for their cost in the SUV market. As a Jeep competitor, I get it though.... they're definitely a specialty market. They're probably more as a convertible alternative than a true off road vehicle because of how pretty they look.

 

[ultimatebob]

It's nice to see that Ford actually still knows how to build SUV's that look like SUV's. That "Mustang" Mock-E electric crossover thing had me wondering if all future Ford vehicles were going to look like mutant jellybeans with wheels.

If they made an electric version of this, I'd buy it!

 

[IronWing]

It's the first model on the market in years that could replace the FJ Cruiser. I'll have to see if it's still around in ten years when my FJ finally wears out.

 

[ponyo]

double

 

[ponyo]

It's the first model on the market in years that could replace the FJ Cruiser. I'll have to see if it's still around in ten years when my FJ finally wears out.

I was thinking about FJ Cruiser when I saw the Bronco pics. I rather have FJ Cruiser or Land Cruiser over Bronco if I was buying ICE vehicle. I just don't trust Ford when it comes to vehicle reliability.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I think Ford's philosophy is to make something with a very predetermined shelf life and could care less what the consumers think. I mentioned this before, a few years back, when I was on a van pool and one of the other riders was an engineer. His friend was an engineer at Ford and stated they most definitely engineer the products to live 5-7 years, and no more. If it lasts longer, you are just lucky. I guess that the mentality was to force loyal customers to buy new. If i had a new vehicle that lasted only 5-7 years I would not be buying a second from that manufacturer.

 

[Greenman]

I think Ford's philosophy is to make something with a very predetermined shelf life and could care less what the consumers think. I mentioned this before, a few years back, when I was on a van pool and one of the other riders was an engineer. His friend was an engineer at Ford and stated they most definitely engineer the products to live 5-7 years, and no more. If it lasts longer, you are just lucky. I guess that the mentality was to force loyal customers to buy new. If i had a new vehicle that lasted only 5-7 years I would not be buying a second from that manufacturer.

That doesn't reflect my personal experience at all. Driven Fords my entire life and I've never seen less than 240,000. My wife's Escape just turned 18, looks great and runs well.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[heymrdj]

I think Ford's philosophy is to make something with a very predetermined shelf life and could care less what the consumers think. I mentioned this before, a few years back, when I was on a van pool and one of the other riders was an engineer. His friend was an engineer at Ford and stated they most definitely engineer the products to live 5-7 years, and no more. If it lasts longer, you are just lucky. I guess that the mentality was to force loyal customers to buy new. If i had a new vehicle that lasted only 5-7 years I would not be buying a second from that manufacturer.

So I guess even if it was true (don’t think it is) I have to ask what your opinion is on how long a vehicle should be targeted to last. I don’t know any company that’s using aerospace materials that could last 30 trips around the earth because no one pays for that these days. Who is making a vehicle that you believe was designed to last that long?

 

[Viper GTS]

So I guess even if it was true (don’t think it is) I have to ask what your opinion is on how long a vehicle should be targeted to last. I don’t know any company that’s using aerospace materials that could last 30 trips around the earth because no one pays for that these days. Who is making a vehicle that you believe was designed to last that long?

I don't generally buy into this nonsense but I'll bite:

Why Toyota Land Cruisers Are The Most Reliable Vehicles Ever | Well Rigged

Picture driving a 4x4 300 miles deep into the Sahara desert...alone. Just how critically would your life depend on the mechanical soundness and reliability of your…

www.wellrigged.com

You can build a vehicle to be super durable but the vast majority of consumers either can't afford it or would rather have something flashy for the same money.

That said, any mass market vehicle these days should be able to do 200k without too much drama. The quality chasm of the 80s is long past us.

Viper GTS

 

[heymrdj]

I’m not sure what you’re referring to as nonsense? You agreed with me, people can’t afford it. At a starting price of 85K and change, the “durable” vehicle is outside of most people’s budgets. And yes, when the average person won’t own a vehicle long enough to kill the engine, many do want some flash. Especially when the comfort features will probably be out of date in 7 years anyways.

Was there a point that wasn’t clear?

 

[Viper GTS]

I’m not sure what you’re referring to as nonsense? You agreed with me, people can’t afford it. At a starting price of 85K and change, the “durable” vehicle is outside of most people’s budgets. And yes, when the average person won’t own a vehicle long enough to kill the engine, many do want some flash. Especially when the comfort features will probably be out of date in 7 years anyways.

Was there a point that wasn’t clear?

The nonsense, in this case, is the idea that cars are only designed to last 5-7 years or some other absurd statement. I could have been a bit more clear about that.

While that is nonsense, there are vehicles out there that are designed to a different standard. Hence the Landcruiser link. Not every vehicle can be that; but that doesn't mean that buyers of every other new car are being fleeced.

I remember when I was a kid watching my dad put 2+ quarts into an early 80s Tercel that was somehow still running despite no oil whatsoever on the dipstick. From that era I would agree that had he been so neglectful of a car that was not a Toyota it likely would not have survived. But that reputation that Toyota and to a somewhat lesser extent Honda earned from cars they sold in the 80s makes people over-value them today relative to their domestic counterparts (IMO, of course). If I were buying a used car on a small, fixed budget I would rather have a much newer Ford than an equivalently priced Toyota even if there is a small gap that remains in reliability. I value newer safety standards, newer technology (Sync 3 with Android Auto/Car Play/etc), and lower salt exposure since I live in the Northeast.

My dad would still say reliability and fuel economy are the only things that matter and would still be driving those 80s Tercels if he could get parts for them.

Viper GTS

 

[BarkingGhostar]

So I guess even if it was true (don’t think it is) I have to ask what your opinion is on how long a vehicle should be targeted to last. I don’t know any company that’s using aerospace materials that could last 30 trips around the earth because no one pays for that these days. Who is making a vehicle that you believe was designed to last that long?

If a dealership is trying to force a dumb something or other buyer on limited means into a seven year financing I would imagine +3 years on warranty would sound about right. Either that or a statement up front that the vehicle is only intended to be good for X amount of years. Abuse aside, my household has had vehicle live on a rather short lifespan when not only was the vehicle routinely services by the dealerships but also on their own aggressive schedule and yet it still failed to a point said dealerships couldn't even identify the problem. Said label got banned from our household.

But I would think with proper care it shouldn't be a problem for a manufacturer to make a given claim, but they wouldn't dare. But my truck is in its 19th year with over 250K miles on it, and the older Bimmer is on its 15th year with 180K miles on it. So, I take the grain of salt information reaching me and take note since I have never owned a product from that manufacturer.

 

[heymrdj]

The nonsense, in this case, is the idea that cars are only designed to last 5-7 years or some other absurd statement. I could have been a bit more clear about that.

While that is nonsense, there are vehicles out there that are designed to a different standard. Hence the Landcruiser link. Not every vehicle can be that; but that doesn't mean that buyers of every other new car are being fleeced.

I remember when I was a kid watching my dad put 2+ quarts into an early 80s Tercel that was somehow still running despite no oil whatsoever on the dipstick. From that era I would agree that had he been so neglectful of a car that was not a Toyota it likely would not have survived. But that reputation that Toyota and to a somewhat lesser extent Honda earned from cars they sold in the 80s makes people over-value them today relative to their domestic counterparts (IMO, of course). If I were buying a used car on a small, fixed budget I would rather have a much newer Ford than an equivalently priced Toyota even if there is a small gap that remains in reliability. I value newer safety standards, newer technology (Sync 3 with Android Auto/Car Play/etc), and lower salt exposure since I live in the Northeast.

My dad would still say reliability and fuel economy are the only things that matter and would still be driving those 80s Tercels if he could get parts for them.

Viper GTS

That makes more sense. And I agree with you, I value the newer safety standards, and I don't have an issue with domestics (and saying that as someone who has only owned one Honda). The rest of my vehicles have been Ford and GMs. I couldn't kill my 2004 Ford Expedition or my 2007 Ranger (with the 2.3L 4 banger).

If a dealership is trying to force a dumb something or other buyer on limited means into a seven year financing I would imagine +3 years on warranty would sound about right. Either that or a statement up front that the vehicle is only intended to be good for X amount of years. Abuse aside, my household has had vehicle live on a rather short lifespan when not only was the vehicle routinely services by the dealerships but also on their own aggressive schedule and yet it still failed to a point said dealerships couldn't even identify the problem. Said label got banned from our household.

But I would think with proper care it shouldn't be a problem for a manufacturer to make a given claim, but they wouldn't dare. But my truck is in its 19th year with over 250K miles on it, and the older Bimmer is on its 15th year with 180K miles on it. So, I take the grain of salt information reaching me and take note since I have never owned a product from that manufacturer.

I think most manufacturers realize that they are designing around 150K point, as that gets both the age and the mileage. But there's too many issues in the mass production process to promise that much (especially with buggy electronics) and so we see a lesser warranty. My 2004 Expedition with the 5.4L made it just over 150K before a semi killed it by pushing it into a concrete barrier. The most expensive thing that happened to it was the windshield washer fluid tank splitting as the Georgia dealer I told not to put fluid in it, put their crappy fluid in it, a week before it was driven to northern Indiana, and proceeded to freeze in sub zero temps. I would say that it was starting to show possible oil leakdown issues due to valve seat guides, as there was a small puff of blue smoke when cold started after sitting for more than a few days at a time.

2007 Ranger I put over 50,000 miles on in 2 years, and it didn't have an issue. I got it in 2009 (2.3L 4cyl) with 32,000 miles on it, and sold it in 2011 with 87,000 miles on it. I wish I hadn't sold it, but it couldn't suit my purposes anymore. After that, I haven't really owned new cars long enough to know their full reliability as they tended to get traded every 2 years. I did end up having my 2012 Honda Civic go to the dealer 3 times, which was more than the Ranger, for a broken gas door release cable, an out of balance cooling fan (the right one used for high temps and/or A/C use), and a recall. I only had that car for 8-9 months before it got ran into a light pole by an old man in a giant 80's Lincoln wagon when he decided he needed the lane I was in and proceeded to put the side of his car into the front of mine. It did protect me very well though...

 

[BarkingGhostar]

My experiences were all southern, non-coastal vehicles bought new. The one that got banned was a 1995 Honda Accord EX Coupe. We traded it in at 7 years with less than 100K miles on it. During ownership we replaced the driver's door window motor assembly twice, the ABS once, etc., but the final straw was we went out into the garage one day and it acted like there wasn't a battery in it. Towed it to the closest Honda dealership and the claimed it was the transmission safety lockout control. Next day problem was back. They then said it was the ignition switch, which they replaced and the problem came back the later that afternoon before we could even pick it up.

Morning after that it started so we took it but then the problem came back again as we attempt to leave the house. Towed it again. This time tow truck driver tried starting it at the dealership and it started. Dealership couldn't identify the problem but since it was now running we went home. next day it did it again and this time the same tow truck driver tried to start it while it sat in the garage and when it didn't we towed it to a different Honda dealership service department. I forgot at that point what they said the problem was, but the part got replaced and we picked it up. It worked for two days and then failed again.

At this point I dragged the wife kicking and screaming to test drive five new vehicles. She got the forth one and demanded she be given that one, which of a BMS 325. She loves it and still has it. On the day we dropped off the Accord as a trade-in when the BMS came in, we left it running in their front lot and told them why. They didn't care. We drove the new Bimmer off the lot with the cursed Honda still running in their front lot. LOL

 

[pauldun170]

It's the first model on the market in years that could replace the FJ Cruiser. I'll have to see if it's still around in ten years when my FJ finally wears out.

Quick question...
What year, how is you windshield holding up and how many miles do you have on your fj?

Hear stories FJ cruisers windshields are a wear and tear items

 

[IronWing]

Quick question...
What year, how is you windshield holding up and how many miles do you have on your fj?

Hear stories FJ cruisers windshields are a wear and tear items

2007, 153k miles, I think we’re on our third windshield, which has a big old goose egg in the center. The windshield doesn’t suffer any more than on other cars. When the windshield gets replaced there is a piece of trim at the top that also has to be replaced. In 2007-2008, the trim piece was stupid expensive. After market manufacturers started making the trim piece so prices are reasonable now.

The only real pisser was the 2007s suffered a design flaw in the differential that lead to failures in as low as 16k miles. Mine went at 60k. Toyota would never admit the problem so when it happened out of warranty, owners were screwed.

 

[TXHokie]

The two door with 7 speed stick standard catches my attention. Good to see manual trans is not dead.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I'm joking here ... but will these versions come with AC, cup holders? If I'm alone someone or something needs to hold my beer when I am about to do something stupid during the test drive. And fat 'merica needs AC, even in winter.

 

[jlee]

2021 Ford Bronco Badlands First Ride Review: Hells Yeah

The 2021 Ford Bronco is months away from going on sale, but that hasn't stopped us from going for a rapid off-road ride.

www.motor1.com

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I still bet most buyers will never take their Bronco off road.

 

[jlee]

I still bet most buyers will never take their Bronco off road.

Given that it's the same target audience as the Wrangler, you're probably right.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Wife accelerated past a Wrangler with a Handicap tag the other day. Got me thinking about how handicap this person really was. I had a peeve about most with handicap tags and placards. Atlanta has a lot of people with 4x4 that have never seen dirt (or snow/ice) in their lives.

 

[Kaido]

Dang, I definitely want one haha

 

[mindless1]

Wife accelerated past a Wrangler with a Handicap tag the other day. Got me thinking about how handicap this person really was. I had a peeve about most with handicap tags and placards. Atlanta has a lot of people with 4x4 that have never seen dirt (or snow/ice) in their lives.

So Much Hate, lol.

How are you letting everyone know that you don't approve of freedom of choice, before they buy a Wrangler? Billboards? TV Commercials? Flyers?

How do you know that most people with handicap tags shouldn't have them? Cold calling? Mail-in questionnaires? Forced interrogations? Have you done anything to try to get stricter guidelines established for handicap status qualification?

Would you reliably be able to identify everyone with a cardiac condition or hearing impairment, let alone so many other disabilities that aren't quite as obvious as a big stamp on someone's forehead?

IMO, if someone's life is so much about gaming the system that they make the extra effort to get a handicap tag that they think they shouldn't have, they at least have a mental disability.