First glance at 3870X2 Crossfire X results.

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Why would I do that? Do you have a link to some credible source that says SLi achieves vsynch by not using AFR? If you give me one, I'll check it out. Otherwise I don't see any reason to bother.

You were the one that made the claim vsync is working. That claim needs more than just checking the framerate counter and/or tearing as confirmation. If the cards are operating in single card mode to get vsync that isn't really SLI + vsync working.

That and vsync is generally useless without triple buffering and trying to use that could be sketchy at best, especially with AFR, if it even works at all.

BFG- this is Off Topic for this thread? As a potential Moderator, you need to be able to distinguish when threads are being de-railed, and you're the one doing the de-railing here.

Like I said, I'll discuss SLi and vsynch with you in another thread if you can provide credible links to back you speculation.

I only want to discuss the 3870X2 here.

It appears to me that BFG has been responding to posts you have made.



New mantra:

It is not a credible source.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo
There's no omission- my quote says it, I wouldn't have posted it if I was trying to hide anything.

Just posting about the topic card, happy to discuss SLi in another thread.

i am NOT saying you did anything *wrong* ...
. . . and you ARE already discussing SLi in another thread when CrossFire came up after talking about certain limitations with intel chipsets.

We all have our own style
... or lack thereof


Yours is very obviously 'pro-nvidia' ... i have no problem with that either
-in your mind AMD's solution is inherently inferior and barely worth mentioning

 

[Blacklash]

Maybe I am reading all of that wrong. What I got was triple buffering with vsync cannot be used with SLI or Crossfire (dual card) systems save in some instances if you force split frame rendering. Since ATi cards don't currently allow you select or use split frame rendering then it would only be possible on nVidia hardware.

Now if you can not set split frame rendering on nVidia multi GPU cards like the 7950 GX2 then you would be in the same boat in those cases.

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Blacklash
Last I heard ATi use supertiling and one manner of AFR, where nVidia may use 2 different types of AFR and split frame rendering. The user may assign this with nVidia cards. If ATi no longer uses supertiling someone correct me.

As far as Rollo goes, most of us already know he occasionally gets free gear from nVidia. It's in his sig That doesn't automatically invalidate everything he says IMO.

Here;s *why* some of us are suspicious [because of the past and now]:

Originally posted by: nRollo

I only want to discuss the 3870X2 here.

In the spirit of "on topic":

vsync is generally useless without triple buffering

For the 3870X2 that may not be an option:
http://www.gamecritics.com/tri...g-performance-for-free

There is one minor downside: Triple buffering cannot be used with SLI or Crossfire (dual card) systems. This is because triple buffering doesn't work with the type of rendering used in those setups. Some people have gotten it to work in SLI, however, by forcing "split frame rendering" in the nVidia control panel under "3D settings".

There's no forcing split frame rendering with ATi drivers to date.

notice his quote and his comment do not agree. The quote:
Triple buffering cannot be used with SLI or Crossfire (dual card) systems.

his comment:

For the 3870X2 that may not be an option:


and

There's no forcing split frame rendering with ATi drivers to date.

note how "lopsided" - only one side is presented

here's what he conveniently left out:

there is no Vsych/triple buffering with nvidia SLI/multi GPU solutions EITHER

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nRollo
There's no omission- my quote says it, I wouldn't have posted it if I was trying to hide anything.

Just posting about the topic card, happy to discuss SLi in another thread.

i am NOT saying you did anything *wrong* ...
. . . and you ARE already discussing SLi in another thread when CrossFire came up after talking about certain limitations with intel chipsets.

We all have our own style
... or lack thereof


Yours is very obviously 'pro-nvidia' ... i have no problem with that either
-in your mind AMD's solution is inherently inferior and barely worth mentioning

This is that kind of crap I was expecting in his return. Sometimes I really don't understand

the decision of the upper management here. I guess AT video forum will turn into an nVidia

paradise very soon. :thumbsdown:

 

[Blacklash]

I don't understand why pro-nVidia stances are look upon as misguided or deluded by many @ AT. nVidia has had the upper hand since the release of the 8800GTX IMO. That goes for both performance and IQ.

Back when I had my X1900XT running @ XTX speed I said the same thing of ATi; best performance, best IQ.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nRollo
There's no omission- my quote says it, I wouldn't have posted it if I was trying to hide anything.

Just posting about the topic card, happy to discuss SLi in another thread.

i am NOT saying you did anything *wrong* ...
. . . and you ARE already discussing SLi in another thread when CrossFire came up after talking about certain limitations with intel chipsets.

We all have our own style
... or lack thereof


Yours is very obviously 'pro-nvidia' ... i have no problem with that either
-in your mind AMD's solution is inherently inferior and barely worth mentioning

This is that kind of crap I was expecting in his return. Sometimes I really don't understand

the decision of the upper management here. I guess AT video forum will turn into an nVidia

paradise very soon. :thumbsdown:

this is OT, but what is wrong with it? it just means you have to read between the lines and learn more about video. We have the ability to test our OWN products and come to our own conclusions LONG before any HW site can react.

i was thinking that perhaps we could temporarily trade HW amongst ourselves - to evaluate competing products in our own rigs. That would negate ANY possible advantage that "free" might bring and eliminate bias from this forum.

i was shocked when i got an offer to test a GT in my rig last night ... then i really thought about it ... we certainly could test and evaluate *everything* we are interested in.
:Q

maybe

 

[taltamir]

What the hell people. I kept on hearing references to rollo whenever someone was being a troll but I see now it was just character assassination. Yes the guy is a fan of nvidia. SO WHAT! so far he has been more then reasonable. He asked for proof, he suggested that rather then derailing the thread you take it to a seperate thread, and he suggested that you avoid personal attacks without resorting to using them himself.
Yet a few people here are getting all over him with insults and personal attacks as if he is the devil himself.

Decisions of the moderators to turn this to an nvidia heaven? no. Its the decision to allow people to have an opinion that differs from YOURS; as long as he doesn't resort to personal attacks and other rule violations...

I am also not surprised at the amount of nvidia "fans" right now... people always like to root for the winner since they feel an association with them then... 90% of those nvidia "fans" will switch to ati as soon as it has the upper hand again (and then switch back again). That's just a way of life. its not the moderator's job to stamp out any kind of nvidia fandom among the users of the forum. Its their job to keep abuses to a minimum, abuses like attacking someone's character rather then disproving his opinions.

 

[GonePlaid]

Gothic 3 plays like a dream except for one thing: the Stack Overflow issue. Which is a bug in the game code itself. You'd think that after what a year or so they'd have fixed it by now. Didn't do any benchmarks on it yet been too busy getting sucked up into the gameplay again .

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: taltamir
What the hell people. I kept on hearing references to rollo whenever someone was being a troll but I see now it was just character assassination. Yes the guy is a fan of nvidia. SO WHAT! so far he has been more then reasonable. He asked for proof, he suggested that rather then derailing the thread you take it to a seperate thread, and he suggested that you avoid personal attacks without resorting to using them himself.
Yet a few people here are getting all over him with insults and personal attacks as if he is the devil himself.

Decisions of the moderators to turn this to an nvidia heaven? no. Its the decision to allow people to have an opinion that differs from YOURS; as long as he doesn't resort to personal attacks and other rule violations...

I am also not surprised at the amount of nvidia "fans" right now... people always like to root for the winner since they feel an association with them then... 90% of those nvidia "fans" will switch to ati as soon as it has the upper hand again (and then switch back again). That's just a way of life. its not the moderator's job to stamp out any kind of nvidia fandom among the users of the forum. Its their job to keep abuses to a minimum, abuses like attacking someone's character rather then disproving his opinions.

Not all of us. The ones doing the attacking can't or won't forgive. However, you cannot blame us for being suspicious ... there is a long history here that you are evidently unaware of. i am quite certain he expected to get some extra questioning to determine motivation. However, i do NOT agree with the insults. No insults as we are all people deserving courtesy at the very least. We need to also realize that we are discussing computer hardware, not urgent matters of life or death.

Gothic 3 plays like a dream except for one thing: the Stack Overflow issue. Which is a bug in the game code itself. You'd think that after what a year or so they'd have fixed it by now. Didn't do any benchmarks on it yet been too busy getting sucked up into the gameplay again .

they released a new community patch earlier this week that claims to have fixed it [better]

 

[GonePlaid]

Originally posted by: apoppin

they released a new community patch earlier this week that claims to have fixed it [better]

Don't know what they have done but I've been playing the game with that newest patch v1.6 since Saturday evening. Pretty much the same crashes I've been getting since buying the game when it first came out and now on a completely new computer too. I keep on trudging along and brushing aside the crashes because I love this game series and always have since playing the first one back in '99 or was it 2000.

In fact, I just came from a crash now

 

[GonePlaid]

Four night time screen shots from Gothic 3 with FPS bottom right corner range from 41-46 fps:

1440x900 png file resized down to 1024x640 using jpeg

http://img134.imageshack.us/im...008021103522931pu3.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/im...008021103523529ld3.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/im...008021103531348ut2.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/im...008021103532673fv2.jpg

 

[BFG10K]

BFG- this is Off Topic for this thread? As a potential Moderator, you need to be able to distinguish when threads are being de-railed, and you're the one doing the de-railing here.

I?m only responding to your comments. Don?t wave the moderator blanket around to detract from the fact that your arguments are being called out.

Like I said, I'll discuss SLi and vsynch with you in another thread if you can provide credible links to back you speculation.

Speculation? Like I said checking the frame counter and for tearing doesn?t necessarily prove that since the cards could be running in single card mode to achieve that.

I only want to discuss the 3870X2 here.

But on page 1 you stated?

The 7950GX2 was not a "fiasco"- I'm typing this on a GX2 equipped computer that has given me no problems since launch.

If you're referring to Quad SLi, it's not NVIDIA's fault that Windows XP had the limitation of 3 frames rendered ahead for DX9 and they had to use AFR/SFR in combination. (OpenGL games could use 4 way AFR)

Nonetheless, I was very happy with my Quad SLi until I made the transition to 8800GTX SLi, and I'm not alone in that:

?so don?t play the derailing card to us.

vsync is generally useless without triple buffering
For the 3870X2 that may not be an option:

Neither is it an option on SLI with AFR. Also I?m almost certain there are ATi profiles that run scissors/super-tiling by default since AFR doesn?t work in all games (in fact they?re likely to be the same profiles nVidia doesn?t use AFR).

There's no forcing split frame rendering with ATi drivers to date.

That?s quite true, nVidia does offer vastly better control over SLI through profiles than ATi does.

 

[BFG10K]

Last I heard ATi use supertiling and one manner of AFR, where nVidia may use 2 different types of AFR and split frame rendering.

ATi has SFR too; they call it scissors.

 

[Blacklash]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Last I heard ATi use supertiling and one manner of AFR, where nVidia may use 2 different types of AFR and split frame rendering.

ATi has SFR too; they call it scissors.

Thanks for the heads up.

Moving CAT AI to advanced forces more aggressive optimizations and does what to Crossfire? I remember it doing something with AFR and don't remember what. I know when I ran 3dmark06 with CAT AI on advanced rather than standard it lowered my score with HD 3850 Crossfire and with the HD 3870 X2.

 

[Blacklash]

Originally posted by: GonePlaid
Four night time screen shots from Gothic 3 with FPS bottom right corner range from 41-46 fps:

1440x900 png file resized down to 1024x640 using jpeg

http://img134.imageshack.us/im...008021103522931pu3.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/im...008021103523529ld3.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/im...008021103531348ut2.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/im...008021103532673fv2.jpg

"Gothic 3" Vista x64 1680x 16xAF GTX 652|2054 Shots saved @ 70% to try to reduce size. I put the FPS above the shot in case you don't want to bother loading it-

65
http://img77.imageshack.us/my....007060510575338js3.jpg

71
http://img70.imageshack.us/my....007060510580549ui8.jpg

77
http://img70.imageshack.us/my....007060510590820qt5.jpg

74
http://img70.imageshack.us/my....007060510590965ep1.jpg

80
http://img79.imageshack.us/my....007060511011382qp8.jpg

Starting town shots, in the day

64
http://members.cox.net/malficar3/Gothic3f.jpg

68
http://members.cox.net/malficar3/Gothic3a.jpg


An overclocked GTS 512MB can match or pass my card fairly easily @16x. I am running 661 these days.