First GI court-martialed in prison abuse.
- Thread starter blahblah99
- Start date
I'll let y'all know in a few days if this is true or not as I'm sending an e-mail to a former coworker (now an Army Reservist in MI) who is currently in Iraq.
I do believe he should be court-martialed, but was he following orders? If so, how high did they go up, and isn't he the responsibility of his leading officer? I'm not sure how it works in the military, but something tells me that prosicuting the man on the low end of the totem poll is somewhat pointless.
In the military if you are ordered to do something illegal you are guilty of the crime, as is the person who ordered you. If you refuse to obey the order you can be prosecuted and imprisoned unless you put up a really great defense because your superiors are going to lie through their teeth. You lose either way.
You loose nothing real if you don't do the crime. Who cares what is said as long as you know it isn't true and you don't ruin your self respect by making it true.
biostud
Lifer
- Feb 27, 2003
- 20,232
- 7,359
- 136
After 2WW they changed some rules so that you couldn't such things and give "following orders" as the reason why you did it, and thereby be relieved of guilt. Bu with that said they probably was following some directions from a higher point. But I think that the secretary of defense has the political responsiblity since it is his responsability to run the military "the right way".
Uhhh get a clue. Because it was fun to order the Iraqis to do the pictured things. Just like it is fun to go to DisneyWorld, and most people take pictures of the event.
Zephyr
Yeah, same reason why they were torturing them: the prison was being run by a group of savage idiots.
No, what I mean is did they take the pics for their own viewing pleasure, or did they say they were ordered to take them (for some odd reason).
Has anyone even heard if this has been asked or explained yet?
Has anyone even heard if this has been asked or explained yet?
Ummm, I'm afraid I'm not following your cryptic response.
Is it "They took them for their own viewing pleasure."or are you saying I used a poor choice of words?
If it's the former, is it reported somewhere?
The pictures were taken because one of the tactics interrogators use is to threaten to show these kinds of pictures to friends,family etc., the theory being that the prisoner would talk instead of being publicly humiliated.
I guess their bluff has been called.
I guess their bluff has been called.
That's easy !
In the late 90's, the republican led sex-starved congress invested
$50 million of excess tax revenues in a pornography venture
produced by Ken Starr and titled "The Impeachment of William Jefferson
Clinton". With tax revenues still plentiful in 2002 and a build-up of sexual
deprivation ensuing amongst the republican led congress and white house,
you are now a witness to the second in a series of pornographic productions
to satisfy their needs. Seems the republicans kinda misjudged the cost on
this one though.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
This is apparently a special court-martial (the article erroneously refers to a "Bad Conduct Court-Martial"), which is essentially a misdemeanor-level court. The worst available punishment is a year in confinement, reduction to E-1, 2/3 forfeiture of pay and allowances, and a Bad Conduct Discharge.
I can't help but wonder whether this forum was chosen partly because it does not afford the accused an Article 32 pretrial hearing, which would, in such a high-vis case, have had the practical impact of providing an additional opportunity for the accused's lawyers to get the case into the public eye. It also strikes me as odd they are trying him in Iraq, given the case's public interest level. The Army sure doesn't need to tank a second high-visibility court-martial this year after the Captain Yee fiasco.
Interestingly, if the accused is convicted, he can make an unsworn statement to the judge or jurors, in which he can (and, IMO, should) mention the case of the soldier who apparently killed a prisoner at the Abu Ghraib prison and received no punishment other than a discharge. That one case can and probably will have a meaningful impact on the punishments of every other GI who is court-martialed because of Abu Ghraib abuses.
I can't help but wonder whether this forum was chosen partly because it does not afford the accused an Article 32 pretrial hearing, which would, in such a high-vis case, have had the practical impact of providing an additional opportunity for the accused's lawyers to get the case into the public eye. It also strikes me as odd they are trying him in Iraq, given the case's public interest level. The Army sure doesn't need to tank a second high-visibility court-martial this year after the Captain Yee fiasco.
Interestingly, if the accused is convicted, he can make an unsworn statement to the judge or jurors, in which he can (and, IMO, should) mention the case of the soldier who apparently killed a prisoner at the Abu Ghraib prison and received no punishment other than a discharge. That one case can and probably will have a meaningful impact on the punishments of every other GI who is court-martialed because of Abu Ghraib abuses.
Oooooh the military genius speaks! Thank you thank you for that but of wisdom. You must be verrrrrrry high up in the chain of command! :shocked:
CaptnKirk
Lifer
- Jul 25, 2002
- 10,053
- 0
- 71
This is wrong in so many ways. If they are going to try them in a Courts Martial,
at least have the decency to bring them back to the U.S. so they are NOT in further
jepordy from the local populus as the trial unfolds.
They are still innocent until the Military Tribunal issues it's verdict.
They may have been following orders - right or wrong, but there is something in the chain
of command that allowed it to happen and you can bet the farm that those higer-ups aren't
going to be made the Poster Boys of Dicipline by being sacrificial goats to the Arab Community.
Trying them in Bagdad, Iraq, or anywhere in any Arab populated state is a miscarriage
of the judicial system to the defendant.
Bring them to the Continental U.S. before sacrificing them to the Islamic State of mind in an
attempt to appease the Arab world.
Do you think that Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz or any or the Administrations little warriors should face the Arab world by being put on trial there ?
How about anyone else in the Bush Administration - they falsified the cause of war, that did
in fact put those soldiers in the position that they are in, and knowingly allowed the chain of
command to continue with this as a 'Standard Procedure' until it was revealed to the world.
Outside Contractors ? How about 'retired' special forces agents that get paid through a
federal funding for special work, if they get caught they aren't 'Technically' in uniform -
and they know the risk they take for being caught, quietly take the fall before it gets
back up too far in the chain of command, be an 'Ollie North' good soldier.
at least have the decency to bring them back to the U.S. so they are NOT in further
jepordy from the local populus as the trial unfolds.
They are still innocent until the Military Tribunal issues it's verdict.
They may have been following orders - right or wrong, but there is something in the chain
of command that allowed it to happen and you can bet the farm that those higer-ups aren't
going to be made the Poster Boys of Dicipline by being sacrificial goats to the Arab Community.
Trying them in Bagdad, Iraq, or anywhere in any Arab populated state is a miscarriage
of the judicial system to the defendant.
Bring them to the Continental U.S. before sacrificing them to the Islamic State of mind in an
attempt to appease the Arab world.
Do you think that Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz or any or the Administrations little warriors should face the Arab world by being put on trial there ?
How about anyone else in the Bush Administration - they falsified the cause of war, that did
in fact put those soldiers in the position that they are in, and knowingly allowed the chain of
command to continue with this as a 'Standard Procedure' until it was revealed to the world.
Outside Contractors ? How about 'retired' special forces agents that get paid through a
federal funding for special work, if they get caught they aren't 'Technically' in uniform -
and they know the risk they take for being caught, quietly take the fall before it gets
back up too far in the chain of command, be an 'Ollie North' good soldier.
Gee you must've used all three of your brain cells to fashion that response. What's the matter, NAMBLA meeting cancelled so you thought you'd come in here and troll?
Nahh, I'll leave the weird sexual stuff to you active duty types. Nice pics they've been publishing of you, btw. Is that you in the collar?
Good. I hope they court-martial everyone involved. Try them for TREASON against the United States. I don't care if they were small fry's who took orders, they still did it and therefore are responsible. Send em to gitmo!!!
And all Iraqi military and civilian personnel should listen carefully to this warning: In any conflict, your fate will depend on your actions. Do not destroy oil wells, a source of wealth that belongs to the Iraqi people. Do not obey any command to use weapons of mass destruction against anyone, including the Iraqi people. War crimes will be prosecuted, war criminals will be punished and it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders."
-George W. Bush, 3/19/2003
I expect them to be treated, the POWs, I expect to be treated humanely, just like we're treating the prisoners that we have captured humanely. If not, the people who mistreat the prisoners will be treated as war criminals.
-George W. Bush, 3/23/2003
-George W. Bush, 3/19/2003
I expect them to be treated, the POWs, I expect to be treated humanely, just like we're treating the prisoners that we have captured humanely. If not, the people who mistreat the prisoners will be treated as war criminals.
-George W. Bush, 3/23/2003
Read the first line tree hugger. "Iraqi military and civilian personnel." These quotes do not apply to US military, but to Iraqi military. DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR EARTH TO MCFLY.
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