First Drive: 2004 Lexus LS 430

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: bolido2000

C230 is for people who care too much about snob appeal. Does the sedan also have the new 1.8T engine like the hatchback?

It's not a 1.8T, I think you're referring to the supercharged 2.3, which I think you can get in a sedan.

MB put a superchaged 1.8 in the hatchbach instead of the 2.3, but they didn't change the badge.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: bolido2000
People who say Lexus is a glorified Toyota need a good smack in the head. Is like dissing Bill Gates fortune cuz he is not an aristocrat and sucking up on Prince Charles. Plus like someone else said all the "real luxury brands" are going downmarket. BMW is introducing the 1-series which I expect them to end up being the riced up Integra of the 21st century. People should really wake up at all the brand whoring and realized that everything is calculated. All those fancy european brands (LV, Dior, Fendi, etc) are all from the same company and they are marketed so morons feel special spending so much money.

Spoken like a true Honda Accord owner.

Lemming...

Who drives a Honda?

Like I said..go buy a MB so you can get the prestigue and your neighbors will know you finally made it and you can be the man you always dream to be. LOL

Actually, I drive a Nissan Maxima. A little lower on the lemming scale...😀

 

[PoPPeR]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus "But what goes hand in hand with making that dough for Mercedes is that, in America and worldwide, the E-Class is the Mercedes more people want to own than any other--the one that says to your neighbors you've made it (even if you can't afford a $70K S-Class). And because over the past decade the E outsold everything else in the $45K to $60K segment, it's also the icon that every other carmaker shoots for. Putting an even finer point on it: Through the first nine months of 2002, the much smaller, outgoing E-Class is outselling Lexus' range-topping LS430 by nearly 20%, in a year when the Lexus is brand new. If that's not about the prestige of the E-Class, we don't know what is." You suck it up boy!!!

The E-Class doesn't compete with the LS430 ya dope!!! 🙂 C-Class = IS300 E-Class = GS300/GS430 S-Class = LS430 Suck on it 😀

hopefully this argument is playfull so I'll just add my little tidbit. I don't know the exact sales numbers, but yeah the more expensive a car is, usually the less it sells (exceptions all over the place but I think that's a general rule of thumb) because the less people can afford it. The E-Class isn't in the Lexus's range, like NFS said it goes against the GS.

Personally I hate the new LS. I think it does look very very bland indeed, but there's also no denying the reliability and luxury of the car. It's perfect for people who want an expensive reliable car but dont' care how flashy it looks or how fast it is (although the LS430 certainly packs power).

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: bolido2000
People who say Lexus is a glorified Toyota need a good smack in the head. Is like dissing Bill Gates fortune cuz he is not an aristocrat and sucking up on Prince Charles. Plus like someone else said all the "real luxury brands" are going downmarket. BMW is introducing the 1-series which I expect them to end up being the riced up Integra of the 21st century. People should really wake up at all the brand whoring and realized that everything is calculated. All those fancy european brands (LV, Dior, Fendi, etc) are all from the same company and they are marketed so morons feel special spending so much money.

Spoken like a true Honda Accord owner.

Lemming...

Who drives a Honda?

Like I said..go buy a MB so you can get the prestigue and your neighbors will know you finally made it and you can be the man you always dream to be. LOL

LOL! LOL!

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
"But what goes hand in hand with making that dough for Mercedes is that, in America and worldwide, the E-Class is the Mercedes more people want to own than any other--the one that says to your neighbors you've made it (even if you can't afford a $70K S-Class). And because over the past decade the E outsold everything else in the $45K to $60K segment, it's also the icon that every other carmaker shoots for. Putting an even finer point on it: Through the first nine months of 2002, the much smaller, outgoing E-Class is outselling Lexus' range-topping LS430 by nearly 20%, in a year when the Lexus is brand new. If that's not about the prestige of the E-Class, we don't know what is."

You suck it up boy!!!

The E-Class doesn't compete with the LS430 ya dope!!! 🙂

C-Class = IS300
E-Class = GS300/GS430
S-Class = LS430

Suck on it 😀

Obviously it does!!!

People are buying the smaller MB in the same price range as the bigger Lexus. If that doesn't compete I don't know what does. I didn't write that article.

Moron.

That's like saying that just b/c someone buys a Land Rover Freelander for $30,000 that it competes with the Toyota 4-Runner or Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Yeah dude, whatever 😀

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: bolido2000

C230 is for people who care too much about snob appeal. Does the sedan also have the new 1.8T engine like the hatchback?

It's not a 1.8T, I think you're referring to the supercharged 2.3, which I think you can get in a sedan.

MB put a superchaged 1.8 in the hatchbach instead of the 2.3, but they didn't change the badge.

LOL, yeah you're right, I just looked it up. Funny how despite all those mercedes I drove at their drive event, I didn't know that. 😀

Anyways yeah you can get that setup on a sedan.

 

[DieselUV]

Originally posted by: V00DOO
Diesel UV have you even sit in or driver a Lexus LS430? IMO the Lexus LS430 has a better ride than any other cars in its class.

Yeah, I was defending it. My dad has an 01 LS430. He chose it over an S500. The extra cost wasn't worth it to him.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: Diesel UV

Originally posted by: V00DOO
Diesel UV have you even sit in or driver a Lexus LS430? IMO the Lexus LS430 has a better ride than any other cars in its class.

Yeah, I was defending it. My dad has an 01 LS430. He chose it over an S500. The extra cost wasn't worth it to him.

I see one rolling down the street with it's Xenon lights on and damn that thing is beautiful 🙂

 

[PoPPeR]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: Diesel UV

Originally posted by: V00DOO Diesel UV have you even sit in or driver a Lexus LS430? IMO the Lexus LS430 has a better ride than any other cars in its class.

Yeah, I was defending it. My dad has an 01 LS430. He chose it over an S500. The extra cost wasn't worth it to him.

I see one rolling down the street with it's Xenon lights on and damn that thing is beautiful 🙂

I think the prestige of the S500 makes it one of the most beautiful cars in my eyes. The Lexus cant compare to me, just because it's an S500 and well... damn heh.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: PoPPeR

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: Diesel UV

Originally posted by: V00DOO Diesel UV have you even sit in or driver a Lexus LS430? IMO the Lexus LS430 has a better ride than any other cars in its class.

Yeah, I was defending it. My dad has an 01 LS430. He chose it over an S500. The extra cost wasn't worth it to him.

I see one rolling down the street with it's Xenon lights on and damn that thing is beautiful 🙂

I think the prestige of the S500 makes it one of the most beautiful cars in my eyes. The Lexus cant compare to me, just because it's an S500 and well... damn heh.

S500 is beautiful too but it's too expensive 🙁

If I can afford one later, it'll be like the S320 😉 But at that price I'd much rather have the E-Class.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

I like my luxury cars to be reliable please, so LS430 for me.

I can't imagine spending $80+k on a car only to see it spending time in the service shop.

Here's a little fact of M-B. After the LS400 was released in '89/'90, Benz couldn't understand how Lexus could manage to put together a luxury car with such quality at such a low price. So what did they do? They managed to snag most of the engineering team from Lexus to work on building the current-gen S-class.

Well they suceeded in making it cheaper, too bad it losts its quality.

And you can tell Lexus has been doing well. In '90 their cars did not command nearly the high price that they command now. An LS400 in 1990 was around ~40k USD, now look how expensive it is (taking into account inflation).

 

[DieselUV]

I would like to add that no one is right or wrong here. It's all a matter of personal preference. If we all drove MB's, that would be pretty boring. They'd probably all be silver though. Personally, I don't really care if something offers more prestige. For example, I'm a label whore but I tend not to like things with big ass logos on them like A/X clothes. But let's not get into a clothes argument. High end companies like BMW and MB are loving the fact that people feel more "prestigious" in their cars. Just don't complain when you have to pay $400 for a pair of new rotors that you can't turn.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
I like my luxury cars to be reliable please, so LS430 for me.

I can't imagine spending $80+k on a car only to see it spending time in the service shop.

Here's a little fact of M-B. After the LS400 was released in '89/'90, Benz couldn't understand how Lexus could manage to put together a luxury car with such quality at such a low price. So what did they do? They managed to snag most of the engineering team from Lexus to work on building the current-gen S-class.

Well they suceeded in making it cheaper, too bad it losts its quality.

And you can tell Lexus has been doing well. In '90 their cars did not command nearly the high price that they command now. An LS400 in 1990 was around ~40k USD, now look how expensive it is (taking into account inflation).

LoL having all Lexus vehicles in Japan helps as well. Their work ethic is Superior to other countries IMO.

I think some of the new RX330's are being built in Canada tho which is a shame.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN
I like my luxury cars to be reliable please, so LS430 for me.

I can't imagine spending $80+k on a car only to see it spending time in the service shop.

Here's a little fact of M-B. After the LS400 was released in '89/'90, Benz couldn't understand how Lexus could manage to put together a luxury car with such quality at such a low price. So what did they do? They managed to snag most of the engineering team from Lexus to work on building the current-gen S-class.

Well they suceeded in making it cheaper, too bad it losts its quality.

And you can tell Lexus has been doing well. In '90 their cars did not command nearly the high price that they command now. An LS400 in 1990 was around ~40k USD, now look how expensive it is (taking into account inflation).

LoL having all Lexus vehicles in Japan helps as well. Their work ethic is Superior to other countries IMO.

I think some of the new RX330's are being built in Canada tho which is a shame.

Hey! Ontario rocks! Just cause we have poor public education, poor infrastructure, and a poorly run government; that doesn't mean the Lexus cars assembled here will be poorly made! 😛

No seriously, the plant for the RX330 recently got revamped. I posted an article about it a few weeks ago over here. The plant is only about 3-hours away.

I went to the Honda plant a few years back on a school trip...very cool. And our new house is 10min away from the Ford Freestar plant.

 

[MagicianBdotCom]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: bolido2000

C230 is for people who care too much about snob appeal. Does the sedan also have the new 1.8T engine like the hatchback?

It's not a 1.8T, I think you're referring to the supercharged 2.3, which I think you can get in a sedan.

MB put a superchaged 1.8 in the hatchbach instead of the 2.3, but they didn't change the badge.

LOL, yeah you're right, I just looked it up. Funny how despite all those mercedes I drove at their drive event, I didn't know that. 😀

Anyways yeah you can get that setup on a sedan.

Correction: They put 1.8 badges on side of new C230's (but it's still a c230 badge on the back) 🙂

Also, all you guys are arguing about quality of this and how this is a glorified that. If people wanted the most efficient car with the least problems, we'd all have an accord. To people who aren't worried about cars all the time, most would much rather have a lexus or merc, than a honda. Brand name and looks do count for something.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
"But what goes hand in hand with making that dough for Mercedes is that, in America and worldwide, the E-Class is the Mercedes more people want to own than any other--the one that says to your neighbors you've made it (even if you can't afford a $70K S-Class). And because over the past decade the E outsold everything else in the $45K to $60K segment, it's also the icon that every other carmaker shoots for. Putting an even finer point on it: Through the first nine months of 2002, the much smaller, outgoing E-Class is outselling Lexus' range-topping LS430 by nearly 20%, in a year when the Lexus is brand new. If that's not about the prestige of the E-Class, we don't know what is."

You suck it up boy!!!

The E-Class doesn't compete with the LS430 ya dope!!! 🙂

C-Class = IS300
E-Class = GS300/GS430
S-Class = LS430

Suck on it 😀

Obviously it does!!!

People are buying the smaller MB in the same price range as the bigger Lexus. If that doesn't compete I don't know what does. I didn't write that article.

Moron.

That's like saying that just b/c someone buys a Land Rover Freelander for $30,000 that it competes with the Toyota 4-Runner or Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Yeah dude, whatever 😀

So, by your logic a Porsche 911 Turbo is in the same class of car as a Toyota MR2 because they both have 2 doors and roughly the same interior space?

 

[DieselUV]

No dude. You compare performance specs. Just because the 330i and C320 are like $45k, doesn't mean you can't include the comparable IS300. Just like you'd compare a Vette to a $40k more NSX.

 

[bbrontosaurus]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
I love lexus, nothing is cluttered and their interiors just feel right. Recently rode in a mercedes benz 2004 clk 320, the car is nothing short of amazing in the gadgets it has, but the integration is god awful. It took my friend 2 weeks to operate the freakin AC.

Also, anyone see the new ES300's, man they are beautiful cars. There are two gold/champagne one's sitting outside my parking lot each morning, and they sparkle so nicely in the sunlight.

Is it me, or does the ES300 need bigger rims? The current ones look too small on that car!

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: Diesel UV
No dude. You compare performance specs. Just because the 330i and C320 are like $45k, doesn't mean you can't include the comparable IS300. Just like you'd compare a Vette to a $40k more NSX.

so then what does the 325 and the C230 get compared to on the Lexus line ? ES ?
It owns the 325 and the C230 in performace at equal or cheaper price so you want to bump it up to a 330 and C320 ? Comparable in specs yes price no.

For the additional amount that costs to get the Bimmer or the Benz, you can throw on the super charger or a Stage 1 Turbo and have the performance better than M3. Would you compare it to an M3 ?

Oh yea btw, for that price of the M3, You can throw on a Stage 3 Turbo do a TT swap with Getrag 6speed manual transmission and run with Ferrari's. Are you gonna compare it to a Ferrari *NOT ENZO* *More like a Modena* ?

 

[DieselUV]

No I wouldn't compare the ES to either. It's got nothing sports about it. It's comparable to an I35. For me, I would compare types of cars, not by price. Sure, they should be close in price though.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: Diesel UV
No I wouldn't compare the ES to either. It's got nothing sports about it. It's comparable to an I35. For me, I would compare types of cars, not by price. Sure, they should be close in price though.

IS300 is compared to the 3 Seres and the C class but they have several in their lineup with such price gaps.

IS300 beats 325 and the C230 hands down. at comparable price. I think if you throw on the options on those it'll come out to more than what the IS300 costs with all the options included.

IS300 with all the options including nav = 31,900 Probably either a bit lower.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: Diesel UV
I'm so tired of hearing the "glorified Toyota" remarks from people. Hello? If you know anything about Toyotas, you would know in Japan there is no Lexus. That means every Lexus over there IS a Toyota. Just because one maker chooses to make a large range of cars and not only lux cars like MB and BMW, they're not a worthy competitor? If you haven't noticed, all the other makers have made "lower end" cars like the MB C230, the failed BMW ti. They're just like Accords and Camrys, overpriced ones at that.

You have to be kidding. Have you driven a C-class? Have you noticed how solid and connected to the road it feels? Now try out a Camry, see how wishy-washy the steering feels, and how it can never give you that solid feel of even a C-class. There is no comparison between a Camry and even a C240.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
"But what goes hand in hand with making that dough for Mercedes is that, in America and worldwide, the E-Class is the Mercedes more people want to own than any other--the one that says to your neighbors you've made it (even if you can't afford a $70K S-Class). And because over the past decade the E outsold everything else in the $45K to $60K segment, it's also the icon that every other carmaker shoots for. Putting an even finer point on it: Through the first nine months of 2002, the much smaller, outgoing E-Class is outselling Lexus' range-topping LS430 by nearly 20%, in a year when the Lexus is brand new. If that's not about the prestige of the E-Class, we don't know what is." You suck it up boy!!!

New E-class outclasses LS430 for sure. What a beautiful car.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: Diesel UV
I'm so tired of hearing the "glorified Toyota" remarks from people. Hello? If you know anything about Toyotas, you would know in Japan there is no Lexus. That means every Lexus over there IS a Toyota. Just because one maker chooses to make a large range of cars and not only lux cars like MB and BMW, they're not a worthy competitor? If you haven't noticed, all the other makers have made "lower end" cars like the MB C230, the failed BMW ti. They're just like Accords and Camrys, overpriced ones at that.

You have to be kidding. Have you driven a C-class? Have you noticed how solid and connected to the road it feels? Now try out a Camry, see how wishy-washy the steering feels, and how it can never give you that solid feel of even a C-class. There is no comparison between a Camry and even a C240.

You're right that's cuz C230 is Sports Sedan, and the Camry isn't.

 

[spliffstar69]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
"But what goes hand in hand with making that dough for Mercedes is that, in America and worldwide, the E-Class is the Mercedes more people want to own than any other--the one that says to your neighbors you've made it (even if you can't afford a $70K S-Class). And because over the past decade the E outsold everything else in the $45K to $60K segment, it's also the icon that every other carmaker shoots for. Putting an even finer point on it: Through the first nine months of 2002, the much smaller, outgoing E-Class is outselling Lexus' range-topping LS430 by nearly 20%, in a year when the Lexus is brand new. If that's not about the prestige of the E-Class, we don't know what is." You suck it up boy!!!

New E-class outclasses LS430 for sure. What a beautiful car.

lol.. your asking for it.