first day of MCSE training

[erwin1978]

Today was the first day of my MCSE training. I must say that I felt out of place when I found out that everyone else in class had a "real job" while I on the other hand am still in school. The others were probably wondering what business I had taking an MCSE course.

Four hours sitting in that one room was so painful. Hopefully, tomorrow would be more interesting. If I keep up, I should be able to get my certification by next spring.

For those of you who have taken MCSE, do you have to pay for the 5 mandatory exams? Also, did you have to buy any books. My instructor just gave us a burned CD and he said a book is not mandatory but he suggested getting one.

 

[stash]

MSCE requires 7 exams. Since I prepared by reading and doing, I can't tell you what the classes may offer, but I have to pay for all the exams ($125 apiece).

I'd be interesting in hearing more information about the class you are taking. The one class I looked into cost over $8000 and was something 28 weeks long. I don't believe the cost of the exams was covered. And it was some serious handholding.

I only ask because when I was a student, I definitely couldn't afford 8k.

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

I took a computer networking program that was 1 and 1/2yr long and costed $15000Cdn, which includes the MCSE and CCNA program. Cost of certs were not included in price, but since many of us was under the assumption that it was and bitched to the president of the school about it, we got them *free*.

At first, it was mostly lectures and tests. As time went by, we did more and more lab experimentations and projects (setup domains, trusts, group policies, CAs, VPNs, etc...). The problems that we ran into really taught us a lot. Some of the things you learn is through practical, and the book won't tell you how to go about solving those problems.

Is the program worth the cost? IMO, no. Was the hands on and 2 month internship helpful? I'd say yes.

I'm one away from my MCSE cert. Since I'm not going to be a consultant (really that's what MCSE is for I'm thinking), a MCSA, CCNA, MCP, and A+ should be fine for me.....at least for now.

What I find is the program doesn't really get you anywhere far. You need to be dynamic, being an MCSE these days doesn't really mean much. You gotta know some programming, database, web, and networking skills to get you a good chance of getting somewhere.

Almost 9 month after my grad, I still haven't found anything yet. Trying to volunteer at my work place right now where they do have an internal IT department.

Definitely read and understand your materials. If you don't know, ASK. Don't worry, the material you will find more and more interesting as you go more in depth. Goodluck.

 

[HaroldW]

Wether tuition includes books and/or exams varies widely from school to school. If it is included then I'm sure the tuition is higher because of it. The tech school I went to about three years ago did include it. However, when I was enrolling they gave me an itemized list showing how the tuition broke down into different charges (ie: XX dollars instruction, XX dollars lab fees, XX dollars books, XX dollars certification test fees etc.)

Caution: If your class is tought one certification at a time, take the test for that certification as quickly as possible after the class is done. It is much more fresh in your mind then. Many of the people in my class decided to wait until the entire MCSE course was over with. I am positive that most who did that, found it too hard to study after the entire MCSE course was done and they never got their MCSE.

Also, try to do as much in the labs as possible. This will give you some minimal experience.

With the Windows 2000 MCSE track Microsoft introduced a new type of scenario questions (mostly in the electives.) I strongly suggest you get a hold of some sort of testing simulator (Transcender for instance) and get familiar with this type of scenario question.)

PeeluckyDuckee is right. The MCSE alone will rarely get you a job as a Systems Administrator or a Systems Engineer. You may have to find a job doing something else at a company and then try to get into their IT department and or in some other way get at least some experience.

I have taken many networking certification tests (I hold currently CNA/CNE Netware 4.11/5.1, MCSE NT 4.0/Windows 2000) and am trying to force myself to study for the CNE 6 upgrade test. I am currently employed as a Systems Engineer at a small network integration company.

 

[erwin1978]

My college offers a Continuing Education Program that offers the MCSE test prep courses. I've already registered for the first 4 courses and I'm a bit surprised that I only paid a little over $1000. Do I get what I pay for? So, I'm gonna get me a book package just to be on the safe side. Hmm... which should I get? What irks my mind is how the hell I'm gonna read through all those pages. I'm not fond of reading I see some of the packages are 3 books and they are thick.

Day two of the first course: so far everything the instructor has mentioned is familiar to me and a bit rudimentary for my current skills. I'm starting to wonder if I should cancel the rest of my courses and just self study if I'm gonna be buying the books anyway.

So, I don't have to take the corresponding exams immediately after I finish a course? Can I take the exams in any order? I don't believe my program pays for the exams so I want to be doubly careful when I do take them.

Are the questions essay-type questions? Do they also ask you how to maneuver to a specific location in the OS? Like, how do you get to the "Folder Options" menu in IE, or something like that. I'm a visual person so I can't name directories or menus to go to, off the top of my head, but I can do it with a mouse.

 

[jaynonymous]

There are no essay questions on the MCSE exams. The MCSE exams consist of mostly multiple choice questions. Specifically, many questions present you with a scenario (a user wants to do something) and you are required to select the most appropriate action that the user should take. Some of the questions deal with obscure material that you will never need to know in order to actually manage a Windows-based network. To obtain the MCSE, you will also have to take one "Design" exam, which present you with several case studies. These are slightly different in that it deals somewhat with reading comprehension; you will have to read a case about a company and then answer several questions related to the case study.

In addition to your course books and material, I would suggest getting an exam simulation product. An exam simulation product will enable you to get an idea of the type of questions that will be asked and the format in which they will be asked. I personally recommend Transcender's exam prep material, but there are others out there. Hope this helps!

 

[pillage2001]

How hard are the exams in MCSE?? I may not be a whiz in Win2k or any MS related OS but I'm pretty good with them. How do you guys study without going for the tuition?? I'm planning on just getting a book to prepare myself for it since I don't have the money to attend courses. Are they hard to study?? I'm a Computer Engineering major if that helps. I think it's time to get the certification since not many are hiring fresh graduates.

 

[Saltin]

Some of the exam's are tougher than others.
The most notorious of them all is 216, or Network Infrastructure. It is one of the four core exams.
This is the one where people in my class started failing exams.

Most of the other ones are pretty manageable if you put the time in. Remember, you are only going to get out what you put in.

My schedule went like this

2 weeks of class per course. Read Microsoft Offical Curiculum and Exam Cram for the course in question over these two weeks. 8 hours class per day, at least 3 hours reading.

After those two weeks, I did an entire week of studying, usually at least 8 hours a day. I used Transcenders for the four core exams (they are useless for the design classes though), and did review of my notes/labs and braindumps. I would usually print out the largest braindump I could find, and then I would go through each question and figure out the answer for myself (used alot of Technet while I was doing this, excellent resource).
When I was done going through the 200 questions or so on the dump, I did it again..... then again.

I scored over 900 in every exam, except 216 (Network Infrastructure), which I scored 820 in, and that was the highest mark in my class of 20 odd people.

This cert worked for me. I had a University degree already, my A+, and with MCSE, I managed to land a contract job as a junior admin at the local University. When that expired, I got a job on tech support for a software company. Three months into that job (June of 2002), I asked for, and landed the Network Admin postion at said company.

 

[LANMAN]

Originally posted by: pillage2001
How hard are the exams in MCSE?? I may not be a whiz in Win2k or any MS related OS but I'm pretty good with them. How do you guys study without going for the tuition?? I'm planning on just getting a book to prepare myself for it since I don't have the money to attend courses. Are they hard to study?? I'm a Computer Engineering major if that helps. I think it's time to get the certification since not many are hiring fresh graduates.

Most of the core classes are not too bad until you get to the design tests. You will have 4 out of 6 scenarios that are huge; you have to read through them then pick out what the client is wanting. The answers are drag and drop.

My suggestions are:

Get two PC's one to run Win2k Pro and the other Win2k server. Read all the core books and use the computers to further advance your knowledge of how they work with each other. You will have to pick what electives most interest you to finish off the certification, but most of them are not easy.

I had my NT MCSE so I was able to take 5 exams instead of 7, but in any case even with a NT background, these tests are nothing to mess with, unless you have an endless supply of cash to keep taking them. Beware that even if you had $1000.00 to take tests, you can't take an exam flunk it, come back a hour later do it again, flunk it, and reschedule for yet another test in the same day. There are waiting periods you have to meet after you fail a test. Kind of like getting a drivers license, but I don?t know what state you?re in. You may flunk one day, but the driving instructor will tell you to come back in a week, or whatever the regulatory wait period is.

If you can find a employer who is interested in you skills, most will pay for your tests as long as they are passing scores. However don't be surprised to hear a MCSE boot camp or full length course might have to come out of your pocket first.

I recommend getting books first, read and study on your own then test the tests for the books your studying on. Find out what courses you can pass and if you find yourself struggling in a specific area then find a company that can teach you just that one subject or test number. It's a lot cheaper and you'll find out that you didn't need to waste $8,000.00 to pass 80% of a MCSE course. Don't go to those MCSE boot camps unless you know you can handle the workload. They feed it to you fast enough that it feels like you?re trying to drink from a fire hydrant! :Q

Hope this helps.

--LANMAN

Selfish certifications include: MCSE NT & 2000, A+, Network+, Server+ and Citrix Metaframe

 

[erwin1978]

The exams given are universal, right?; they don't vary from center to center. My instructor recommended this book set, and he said that the practice questions in there are pretty identical to the ones given on the exams. I want to go to a local B&N to get another book, but is that book really special? Also, are the Microsoft books more reliable compared to other publishers?

 

[Saltin]

If two people sat down to write say, the server exam, the exams would have many questions in common, but they would not be identical.

My understanding is that each exam has a large pool of questions ( for example 200). Those questions are divided into difficulties, based on how well people have been answering them. The exam is comprised of a set number of questions from each difficulty pool, but those questions are randomly drawn from thier pool.

That being said, it does not matter where you write the exams (aside from some places are more comfortable than others- larger monitors, better seats, etc). Wherever you go, the test will be random, but from a standard pool of questions.

 

[erwin1978]

Do they tell you the same day how well you did on the exam?

 

[jaynonymous]

You will get immediate feedback as to whether you passed or failed the exam. Additionally, the testing center will provide you with a score sheet stating whether you passed or failed.

 

[mcveigh]

my uncle went to a tech school for about a year and a half got his mcse, I swear if I gave him 2 computers and a crossover cable he couldn't network them

I once asked him to help me setup an exchange server (my first time) he was useless, he said the only OS they used in the course was win2k advanced server.

I hope you all get more real world experience than him. (he doesn't work with computers btw)

 

[stash]

I once asked him to help me setup an exchange server (my first time) he was useless, he said the only OS they used in the course was win2k advanced server.

Yes, there are a lot of paper MCSEs out there, but give your uncle the benefit of the doubt. Exchange is only one of the elective courses; it is not required for the MCSE. Also, Exchange obviously isn't an OS, so him using Win2k AD throughout an MCSE course isn't too unusual (although, they should've had some pro boxes too).

 

[erwin1978]

I was wondering which version of Windows I should be using. I currently use winXP. Would that suffice or do I need win2000 pro or server?

 

[jaynonymous]

I was wondering which version of Windows I should be using. I currently use winXP. Would that suffice or do I need win2000 pro or server?

There is a Windows XP exam that can be taken for the MCSE, but you must be familiar with Windows 2000 server in order to pass several of the exams. You cannot get Active Directory experience on a Windows XP box, so I would strongly suggest getting a trial version of Windows 2000 Server and setting up a small home network. However, your classes should provide you with some experience with Windows 2000 Server. One of the core MCSE exams covers Win2K Server only. You will need to be quite familiar with it. As for Windows 2000 Pro, you can probably get by without it for the exams, but it will be beneficial if you can get a trial version of it as well. If you haven't done so already, I would recommend setting up a home network with as many computers as possible and as many different operating systems as possible in order to really get a feel for how they interact. Obviously, this is somewhat expensive, but having some knowledge of how networks work is very helpful for passing most of the MCSE exams.

To take a step back, it sounds as though you are fairly new to certification. With that in mind, I have a few suggestions for you. I would suggest getting a few lower-level certifications, such as A+ or Network+ before taking the MCSE exams. The A+ and Network+ are given by CompTIA and are vendor neutral. By passing these exams, you will have displayed a certain level of technical expertise with computers and networks. The education that you gain as you prepare for these exams will benefit you when you take the MCSE exams. Plus, you can get certified more quickly because there are fewer exams, thus giving you more confidence when you get ready for the MCSE exams.

 

[pillage2001]

Anybody know where I can find more info on the a+ cert or network+?? Need to locate a center in my area if I wanna attend the exams.

 

[jaynonymous]

Originally posted by: pillage2001
Anybody know where I can find more info on the a+ cert or network+?? Need to locate a center in my area if I wanna attend the exams.

You can go to CompTIA.com in order to get more information on the exams. To find a test location in your area, you can go to www.2test.com or www.vue.com; these are the centers that administer the exams.

 

[LANMAN]

Originally posted by: jaynonymous
You will get immediate feedback as to whether you passed or failed the exam. Additionally, the testing center will provide you with a score sheet stating whether you passed or failed.

Just remember, you want to see green..... :| NO RED!! :|

RED IS BAD !!! :|


--LANMAN

 

[IgoByte]

Originally posted by: PeeluckyDuckee
I took a computer networking program that was 1 and 1/2yr long and costed $15000Cdn, which includes the MCSE and CCNA program. Cost of certs were not included in price, but since many of us was under the assumption that it was and bitched to the president of the school about it, we got them *free*.

At first, it was mostly lectures and tests. As time went by, we did more and more lab experimentations and projects (setup domains, trusts, group policies, CAs, VPNs, etc...). The problems that we ran into really taught us a lot. Some of the things you learn is through practical, and the book won't tell you how to go about solving those problems.

Is the program worth the cost? IMO, no. Was the hands on and 2 month internship helpful? I'd say yes.

I'm one away from my MCSE cert. Since I'm not going to be a consultant (really that's what MCSE is for I'm thinking), a MCSA, CCNA, MCP, and A+ should be fine for me.....at least for now.

What I find is the program doesn't really get you anywhere far. You need to be dynamic, being an MCSE these days doesn't really mean much. You gotta know some programming, database, web, and networking skills to get you a good chance of getting somewhere.

Almost 9 month after my grad, I still haven't found anything yet. Trying to volunteer at my work place right now where they do have an internal IT department.

Definitely read and understand your materials. If you don't know, ASK. Don't worry, the material you will find more and more interesting as you go more in depth. Goodluck.

Dude, $15K canadian is pretty cheap if it was any good.

 

[erwin1978]

I think I'm gonna cancel the rest of my core classes and just read the book from Microsoft on my own. I hope I'm making the right decision. I'm starting to feel that the course I'm taking has been a waste. I'd rather be spending the $300 I payed for this one class, for the exams I will be taking. Damn I hate reading.

 

[CrimsonKing]

How much experience did you guys have before taking the exams? I've been out of school seven years and been in the field the whole time. NT networks the whole time (plus lots of Notes admin the first year). I'm currently a LAN admin for the NT/Novell side of my company (Novell going away!), working on mostly Compaq equipment. I've been thinking about taking a test to try the water. I failed two Notes exams by one question each way back when and the disappointment sorta stuck. I hate tests.

So now I'm wondering how much study I'm going to need, since I do this day in and day out. I'm not very experienced in 2000 administration, since I just moved from a location that was all NT4 to the centralized group that has a lot of 2000, but I'm not green, either. I've had 2000 on my desktop since it came out and was running Advanced Server/Exchange at home for a while. I know I'm rusty on my Active Directory, though. I would like to take some sort of online practice exam to guage how far off I am as-is, no studying. Doing well would hopefully provide some incentive to study and let me know what I'm weak in. What's a good practice test to take to guage where I am with 2000 Pro or Server?

Hopefully I can get by without classes, since I can't fathom paying $8000 for training. That's many month's worth of takehome pay for me!

I also enjoyed the ExamCram books I picked up from the library when this first crossed my mind. They're small, simple and straight to the point. I might invest in a couple, though I'd rather just save the money and keep renewing at the library. Anyone else find these useful?

 

[jaynonymous]

Originally posted by: CrimsonKing
How much experience did you guys have before taking the exams? I've been out of school seven years and been in the field the whole time. NT networks the whole time (plus lots of Notes admin the first year). I'm currently a LAN admin for the NT/Novell side of my company (Novell going away!), working on mostly Compaq equipment. I've been thinking about taking a test to try the water. I failed two Notes exams by one question each way back when and the disappointment sorta stuck. I hate tests.

So now I'm wondering how much study I'm going to need, since I do this day in and day out. I'm not very experienced in 2000 administration, since I just moved from a location that was all NT4 to the centralized group that has a lot of 2000, but I'm not green, either. I've had 2000 on my desktop since it came out and was running Advanced Server/Exchange at home for a while. I know I'm rusty on my Active Directory, though. I would like to take some sort of online practice exam to guage how far off I am as-is, no studying. Doing well would hopefully provide some incentive to study and let me know what I'm weak in. What's a good practice test to take to guage where I am with 2000 Pro or Server?

Hopefully I can get by without classes, since I can't fathom paying $8000 for training. That's many month's worth of takehome pay for me!

I also enjoyed the ExamCram books I picked up from the library when this first crossed my mind. They're small, simple and straight to the point. I might invest in a couple, though I'd rather just save the money and keep renewing at the library. Anyone else find these useful?

Since you have been using 2000 for a while, I wouldn't think that you would need to invest in the classes. I took classes for NT4 way back when and they weren't really worth the money; helpful but VERY expensive. I was certified in NT4, so I was able to take the Win2K Accelerated exam last year. When studying for that exam, I used Transcender's practice exams exclusively. You can download a demo from their Web site. They are relatively expensive, but I found them to be exactly what I needed. I recommend practice tests because the real exams cover some obscure topics that NO ONE would ever use in "real life." Oftentimes, the practice exams will not only provide you with a simulation of the exam interface, but provide you with information specific to the exam, although they are not braindumps. Additionally, it is always helpful to have a few books on hand, and I would suggest a Microsoft Press book or two. I used the Exam Cram books for the NT4 exams and they were pretty good for those, but the Win2K series were not up to par, which is probably one of the reasons why the company went under earlier this year (they have since been bought by Que). Good luck!

 

[CrimsonKing]

Thanks! The 2000 Pro is the ExamCram I used. Didn't realize they bit the dust. I shoulda looked for closeouts!

I've heard of Transcender. Too bad I don't have any money. Maybe the library carries the software under "education" or something. Thanks for the recommendation, though. I'll definitely check out the sample online.