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First Build Recommendations needed.

E

EDoubling

Junior Member
Hi All,
I have done a fair bit of research, and I think I am ready to finalize the components for my first build.

1. This is essentially going to be a "family" computer. I have a GoPro HD Hero camera that I would like to be able to casually edit some HD video. Right now it totally bogs on my 5yo Dell, so I haven't even tried to learn how to do it. We play a few games, but it's not going to be used as a gamer machine. MS Office Suite, web browsing, casual photo editing, some audio editing. I could see the potential to use a video editing program such as Sony Vegas (I have that now, but I think it's going to have to be the 11 year old that learns how to video edit).

2. My budget is $1000-$1200

3. USA.

4. Mostly Intel, but I am open to suggestions

5. No current parts

7. I don't plan on overclocking.

8. HD 1080P.

9. I'm looking to build in the next 30 days.

Here is the parts list that I have put together so far.

i5 3570K + ASRock Z77 Pro3 combo
Lite-On DVD burner
Antec Three Hundred Two Tower
Samsung F3 1TB
Dual Fan 7850
Silencer Mk III 600W
Crucial M4 128GB
Kingston DDR3 1333 8GB

This is pretty much what mfenn specs in his Mid Range System Builders thread. I am really only unsure if I should go with this mobo-CPU combo, and whether a different GPU would be recommended. I'm looking forward to building this system, and any advice is appreciated. Cheers.
 
To determine the right GPU choice we need to know more about the gaming that gets done. Some games need a lot more GPU horsepower than others.

When you say you play a few games, what does that mean? If you play a few games like Battlefield 3 or Skyrim you'll want a fairly powerful GPU even if you don't play them very often. If you play games that are less graphically intense than that, you could probably step down a notch or two, which would also bring your PSU requirements down. As it is that PSU is more powerful than you need, but with the rebate it's a nice price on a good unit, so there's something to be said for that. Even still, you could probably get an even nicer price on a more appropriately sized unit (something in the $40-55 range is likely) in the next 30 days.

Speaking of the "in the next 30 days" time frame. Does that mean that you are building several weeks from now, or that you are going to build as soon as you get all the decisions made, and you want that done in 30 days or less? The reason I ask is that 30 days from now the specific part choices will probably be slightly different to account for hot deals that come and go.
 
I'd bump up the size of that SSD if you have the cash to do so. Even with moving my games to a HDD, my 128GB seems to always be full.

You didn't list an OS either, and said you have 'no parts', so your going to need a copy of Win7 added to that list.
 
DSF said:
To determine the right GPU choice we need to know more about the gaming that gets done. Some games need a lot more GPU horsepower than others.

When you say you play a few games, what does that mean? If you play a few games like Battlefield 3 or Skyrim you'll want a fairly powerful GPU even if you don't play them very often. If you play games that are less graphically intense than that, you could probably step down a notch or two, which would also bring your PSU requirements down.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess I misstated a bit. I don't actually play any games right now, in fact it's been a few years since I've played any PC game. What I should have said, is that I would like the capability to play some games in the future. I understand I may end up having some components or some capabilities that I won't be using necessarily.

DSF said:
Speaking of the "in the next 30 days" time frame. Does that mean that you are building several weeks from now, or that you are going to build as soon as you get all the decisions made.
Click to expand...
More or less, that I am going to build once I get most of the decisions made.

JamesV said:
You didn't list an OS either, and said you have 'no parts', so your going to need a copy of Win7 added to that list.
Click to expand...
I have already purchased Win7 Home Premium. Is there any reason, to have purchased Win7 Pro?
 
EDoubling said:
I have already purchased Win7 Home Premium. Is there any reason, to have purchased Win7 Pro?
Click to expand...

Nope, you're fine with HP.

For your situation, I'd take the list above an make the following changes:

- CPU and mobo to Xeon E3-1230 V2 and ASRock B75 Pro3. This is about $11 more, but gets you Hyperthreading, which should help with video editing and encoding performance
- PSU to Silencer Mk III 400W for $40 AR AP. This saves you a few bucks and 600W isn't necessary for the build when it has a non-overclocking processor and a 7850.
 
Last edited:
mfenn said:
Nope, you're fine with HP.

For you situation, I'd take the list above an make the following changes:

- CPU and mobo to Xeon E3-1230 V2 and ASRock B75 Pro3. This is about $11 more, but gets you Hyperthreading, which should help with video editing and encoding performance
- PSU to Silencer Mk III 400W for $40 AR AP. This saves you a few bucks and 600W isn't necessary for the build when it has a non-overclocking processor and a 7850.
Click to expand...

I wonder if you might provide some insight as to why you would recommend this different CPU/Mobo combo? From a relative Noob's standpoint, it would seem that I should just spend the same (or a litte bit less in this case) amount of money and get a higher performing CPU and Mobo, even though I don't need the OC capability. I'm sure you have a valid reason, I just wonder if you might give me some background? Thanks for the help.
Nate
 
He already mentioned that it's $11 more, but that it also gives you Hyper Threading. Hyper Threading is effectively doubling the logical threads that your computer uses and should give you a nice boost in encoding speeds.

To clarify the CPU you've chosen is 4 cores/4 threads, while the one that mfenn is suggesting is 4 cores/8 threads. While probably not double, you should see a fairly large increase in the system performance with HT for encoding.
 
EDoubling said:
What would be a recommendation for a mobo and CPU if I'm not going to OC?
Click to expand...
Well mfenn is the man around here so I'll defer to his suggestion.

There is nothing wrong with your choices. I see that you are already saving enough money with the combo that the "k" is basically free so you might as well get the "k" part.

Your setup is clocked a little higher than mfenn's and so it will run lightly threaded tasks a little faster. If you can make use of the HT then mfenn's is a better choice.

Note that some things run worse with HT, some run a little better and some thing run a lot better with HT so it really depends on what you are going to be doing with your computer.
 
lakedude said:
Note that some things run worse with HT, some run a little better and some thing run a lot better with HT so it really depends on what you are going to be doing with your computer.
Click to expand...

In what scenario does HT actually hurt performance? Many cases I can think of where there's no difference (with HT on or off for the same CPU, no difference in cache sizes or clock speed) with or without HT as the application doesn't make use of the additional threads.

One thing that is worth noting though that overclocking the 3570K might be capable of giving roughly the same speeds as a non-OC CPU with HT enabled, though there's a bit more work involved and potentially it won't be able to match it. While the HT would be helpful, I'm not sure it's the best option for an all rounder, maybe just grabbing the 3570K and a 212+ and overclocking it a tad is the best option for this.
 
EDoubling said:
I have already purchased Win7 Home Premium. Is there any reason, to have purchased Win7 Pro?
Click to expand...
For day to day use you are unlikely to notice a difference.

Only time I wished I had Pro was trying to do a backup to the network. HP will back up to a local drive but not to a network (unless you add aftermarket software like Acronis).

Home Basic will not allow you to start a HomeGroup, I'd avoid HB, but HP should be fine.
 
krnmastersgt said:
In what scenario does HT actually hurt performance?
Click to expand...
The web is full of reports from circa 2009 that describe poor HT performance. More recent info is harder to come by.

If you think about the way HT works you are basically getting "free" performance when the CPU would otherwise be sitting there doing nothing. Any app that will completely load up a physical CPU core will not benefit from HT because there is no free time to begin with. There is some overhead associated with HT so clearly there will be some cases of worse performance with HT enabled. On average HT does help, sometime quite a bit.

I'm pretty sure LinPack runs better with HT off...

http://suryarpraveen.wordpress.com/...-effects-of-hyper-threading-software-updates/


http://semiaccurate.com/2012/04/25/does-disabling-hyper-threading-increase-performance/
 
mfenn said:
Nope, you're fine with HP.

For you situation, I'd take the list above an make the following changes:

- CPU and mobo to Xeon E3-1230 V2 and ASRock B75 Pro3. This is about $11 more, but gets you Hyperthreading, which should help with video editing and encoding performance
.......
Click to expand...
Did you recommend the Xeon because it has hyperthreading? If so the newegg details says it does not have ht. And I would think Intel would not make the elementary blunder of selling a ht capable cpu for $11 more.
 
DSF said:
I dunno why mfenn's link seems to go to the 1220-V2, but this Newegg link shows the 1230-V2 with hyperthreading:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117286
Click to expand...
Good find!

Both NewEgg and Intel show the 20 without HT:

http://ark.intel.com/products/65734/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1220V2-(8M-Cache-3_10-GHz)

But the 30 does seem to have it:

http://ark.intel.com/products/65732/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1230V2-(8M-Cache-3_30-GHz)

The OP might be better off sticking to his "K" combo and OC'ing if need be...
 
lakedude said:
The web is full of reports from circa 2009 that describe poor HT performance. More recent info is harder to come by.

If you think about the way HT works you are basically getting "free" performance when the CPU would otherwise be sitting there doing nothing. Any app that will completely load up a physical CPU core will not benefit from HT because there is no free time to begin with. There is some overhead associated with HT so clearly there will be some cases of worse performance with HT enabled. On average HT does help, sometime quite a bit.

I'm pretty sure LinPack runs better with HT off...

http://suryarpraveen.wordpress.com/...-effects-of-hyper-threading-software-updates/


http://semiaccurate.com/2012/04/25/does-disabling-hyper-threading-increase-performance/
Click to expand...

That is a relatively fair point but both articles say that overwhelmingly you still benefit from having HT enabled, and when disabled only a very small amount of programs perform just ever so slightly better.

And I'm not aware of any programs out there (for consumers, not talking labs/servers) that are actually capable of completely maxing out CPUs the way that IBT can. Yes something that can COMPLETELY max out the CPU should perform relatively the same with or without HT, maybe even worse, but I honestly can't think of any program capable of doing that outside of benchmarking/stability testing programs.
 
No argument here.

I do BOINC with a 2500k while my friend does the same project with a 2600k. His computer does each task a little slower but he is doing twice as many at a time. We figured out that his 2600k is roughly 50% faster overall on this type of work than my 2500k. I say this to show I understand what HT can do. I got the 3770 because it had HT.

I'm not against HT but I think that an OCed 3570 without HT would beat a 1230 with HT at most things, especially if you factor in the cost.

It looks like the 1220 lacks HT so that one is definitely out IMO.
 
bononos said:
Did you recommend the Xeon because it has hyperthreading? If so the newegg details says it does not have ht. And I would think Intel would not make the elementary blunder of selling a ht capable cpu for $11 more.
Click to expand...

The link inadvertently went to the 1220 V2 when I said the 1230 V2. The the 1230 V2 definitely does have Hyperthreading and the $11 increase was based on its $240 price. The i3 3570K combo has decreased in price by $2 since yesterday, so the difference is now $13.
 
lakedude said:
No argument here.

I do BOINC with a 2500k while my friend does the same project with a 2600k. His computer does each task a little slower but he is doing twice as many at a time. We figured out that his 2600k is roughly 50% faster overall on this type of work than my 2500k. I say this to show I understand what HT can do. I got the 3770 because it had HT.

I'm not against HT but I think that an OCed 3570 without HT would beat a 1230 with HT at most things, especially if you factor in the cost.
Click to expand...

You've gotta remember that the OP has said that this is a family computer that is going to be used by everyone for video editing. It's not going to be a typical tweaker's gaming box.

While I agree with you than an overclocked i5 3570K will probably reach or slightly exceed the Xeon in video encoding, you've got to look a the bigger picture. I don't see the value in overclocking just to reach the same or slightly greater encoding and editing performance than a processor with HT would have to being with.
 
mfenn said:
RAM was $35 AP yesterday.
Click to expand...
Well I don't know what to tell you. It was $39.99 when I first checked, it was $39.99 when I made the post and it is $39.99 right now.

It is possible that you get a different price if you live elsewhere. This happens when my friend from Idaho is trying to show me stuff sometimes.
 
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