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First Amendment no big deal, students say

conjur

No Lifer
Study shows American teenagers indifferent to freedoms
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6888837/
WASHINGTON - The way many high school students see it, government censorship of newspapers may not be a bad thing, and flag burning is hardly protected free speech.

It turns out the First Amendment is a second-rate issue to many of those nearing their own adult independence, according to a study of high school attitudes released Monday.

The original amendment to the Constitution is the cornerstone of the way of life in the United States, promising citizens the freedoms of religion, speech, press and assembly.

Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment, more than one in three high school students said it goes ?too far? in the rights it guarantees. Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories.

?These results are not only disturbing; they are dangerous,? said Hodding Carter III, president of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, which sponsored the $1 million study. ?Ignorance about the basics of this free society is a danger to our nation?s future.?

The students are even more restrictive in their views than their elders, the study says.

When asked whether people should be allowed to express unpopular views, 97 percent of teachers and 99 percent of school principals said yes. Only 83 percent of students did.

Indifference, misunderstanding
The results reflected indifference, with almost three in four students saying they took the First Amendment for granted or didn?t know how they felt about it. It was also clear that many students do not understand what is protected by the bedrock of the Bill of Rights.

Three in four students said flag burning is illegal. It?s not. About half the students said the government can restrict any indecent material on the Internet. It can?t.

?Schools don?t do enough to teach the First Amendment. Students often don?t know the rights it protects,? Linda Puntney, executive director of the Journalism Education Association, said in the report. ?This all comes at a time when there is decreasing passion for much of anything. And, you have to be passionate about the First Amendment.?

The partners in the project, including organizations of newspaper editors and radio and television news directors, share a clear advocacy for First Amendment issues.

Federal and state officials, meanwhile, have bemoaned a lack of knowledge of U.S. civics and history among young people. Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., has even pushed through a mandate that schools must teach about the Constitution on Sept. 17, the date it was signed in 1787.

The survey, conducted by researchers at the University of Connecticut, is billed as the largest of its kind. More than 100,000 students, nearly 8,000 teachers and more than 500 administrators at 544 public and private high schools took part in early 2004.

Lack of education
The study suggests that students embrace First Amendment freedoms if they are taught about them and given a chance to practice them, but schools don?t make the matter a priority.

Students who take part in school media activities, such as a student newspapers or TV production, are much more likely to support expression of unpopular views, for example.


About nine in 10 principals said it is important for all students to learn some journalism skills, but most administrators say a lack of money limits their media offerings.

More than one in five schools offer no student media opportunities; of the high schools that do not offer student newspapers, 40 percent have eliminated them in the last five years.

?The last 15 years have not been a golden era for student media,? said Warren Watson, director of the J-Ideas project at Ball State University in Indiana. ?Programs are under siege or dying from neglect. Many students do not get the opportunity to practice our basic freedoms.?
Keep them in ignorance and they will follow blindly along.

Wonder if they'll change their stance when they're ignorant butts are drafted to serve in battle in Iran or Syria.
 
It's a big reason they want to dismantle public education. Knowledge and wisdom is too dangerous for neocons to handle.
 
As a recent highschooler, I don't find this surprising at all. When half the sctudents spend their day in auto or wood working class, and don't take anything else, shouyld we really be surprised?
 
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
It's a big reason they want to dismantle public education. Knowledge and wisdom is too dangerous for neocons to handle.
ROFL. Have you ever partaken of public education? Knowledge and wisdom have no place there. Try learning calculus in high school from someone that failed out of college because he couldn't hack it in calculus - welcome to my public education experience.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
It's a big reason they want to dismantle public education. Knowledge and wisdom is too dangerous for neocons to handle.
ROFL. Have you ever partaken of public education? Knowledge and wisdom have no place there. Try learning calculus in high school from someone that failed out of college because he couldn't hack it in calculus - welcome to my public education experience.

I'd be looking as to why somebody like that was teaching in your school instead of thinking of ways to destroy public education as a whole.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
It's a big reason they want to dismantle public education. Knowledge and wisdom is too dangerous for neocons to handle.
ROFL. Have you ever partaken of public education? Knowledge and wisdom have no place there. Try learning calculus in high school from someone that failed out of college because he couldn't hack it in calculus - welcome to my public education experience.

erm.... what? where the hell did you go to school? I didn't even know you could get a job even as a substitute without a degree. 😕
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
It's a big reason they want to dismantle public education. Knowledge and wisdom is too dangerous for neocons to handle.
ROFL. Have you ever partaken of public education? Knowledge and wisdom have no place there. Try learning calculus in high school from someone that failed out of college because he couldn't hack it in calculus - welcome to my public education experience.

Interestingly enough, I went to high school at one of the best public high schools in the country, and while classes were very good (I'm STILL ahead of the learning curve in some areas in college now as a result...and I'm a senior), students in general were very politicially conservative (so was I, while I was there). Take that for whatever it's worth, I don't think education=conservative (people there were painfully shallow and very stupid in many ways, that's what comes from being a group of rich white kids with no diversity, ask Minneapolis, MN area residents what they think of Edina), but I DO think that most people want a good education, liberal or conservative.

Edit: I said MOST people because I think there is a possibly growing lack of respect from the right for proper education. Attacking college as nothing more than a bastion for liberal propaganda is the first step into declaring college worthless.
 
Train should appreciate this quote:

I want to take time on this Thanksgiving to thank God I live in a country where, despite so much rampant selfishness, the public schools still manage to produce young men and women ready to voluntarily risk their lives in places like Iraq and Afghanistan to spread the opportunity of freedom and to protect my own. And I want to thank them for doing this, even though on so many days in so many ways we really don't deserve them.

-Thomas Friedman in a NY Times Op-Ed
 
You guys really got screwed on your public education. I went to inner city school in L.A., where most kids were on federal lunch program, and I got AP credits up the wazoo when I went on to my Ivy League college. I had awesome teachers, no complaints.
 
I personally think that highscool school should be more of a "liberal" eductation than a training for a career. More history, science, math, english etc. All the people skating by in tech classes always annoyed me.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Topic Title: First Amendment no big deal, students say
Topic Summary: Bush admin's propaganda war is having its desired effect

The RRRR Chef Menteur Lemmings rejoice.

This Brainwashing success story is even bigger than what was accomplished in the 1930's over in Europe because it was so much easier.
 
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
I personally think that highscool school should be more of a "liberal" eductation than a training for a career. More history, science, math, english etc. All the people skating by in tech classes always annoyed me.

I would use the term "broad" instead of liberal, but I agree. College (or tech school) is a place to learn a profession, and chances are a high school education won't be good enough to get you a skilled job even if it WAS narrow enough to train you for one.

But I'm not sure high school isn't, at least it wasn't for me. I took plenty of history, science, math and english with only a few tech classes. Maybe I COULD have taken more and just didn't, I'm not sure though.
 
So, um, where were these students during their formative years???

like say from 5 years old to 12? Who was running things then? 😀
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
So, um, where were these students during their formative years???

like say from 5 years old to 12? Who was running things then? 😀

The blame it on Clinton is so old and lame and does pertain to the Brainwashing Era under W.

Here's your well deserved :cookie: :roll:
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
So, um, where were these students during their formative years???

like say from 5 years old to 12? Who was running things then? 😀
You mean the Republican-controlled House and Senate?
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
It's a big reason they want to dismantle public education. Knowledge and wisdom is too dangerous for neocons to handle.
ROFL. Have you ever partaken of public education? Knowledge and wisdom have no place there. Try learning calculus in high school from someone that failed out of college because he couldn't hack it in calculus - welcome to my public education experience.


It's been 10 years since I have graduated high school (public), but I did such a good job in my Calculus class, that I passed the exam and received four hours college credit.

The two major problems with our schools are the lack of good teachers (b'c of low pay) and parents.
 
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I'd be looking as to why somebody like that was teaching in your school instead of thinking of ways to destroy public education as a whole.
I didn't say I wanted to destroy public education. It was merely a counterpoint to your statements implying that public education was somehow going to put an end to ignorance.
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
erm.... what? where the hell did you go to school? I didn't even know you could get a job even as a substitute without a degree. 😕
Muncie, Indiana (Muncie Central - if you've ever seen Hoosiers, it's the big school that lost 🙁). It's the only school in the state that ever lost academic accreditation. Graduating from a non-accredited high school made it a lot of fun trying to get in to any colleges. 😀 Only reason I didn't drop out was because of sports.
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Train should appreciate this quote:

I want to take time on this Thanksgiving to thank God I live in a country where, despite so much rampant selfishness, the public schools still manage to produce young men and women ready to voluntarily risk their lives in places like Iraq and Afghanistan to spread the opportunity of freedom and to protect my own. And I want to thank them for doing this, even though on so many days in so many ways we really don't deserve them.

-Thomas Friedman in a NY Times Op-Ed
I never attended a public school (well, unless a state college counts)

But I agree, public schools sure are producing a bunch of blockheads these days. Was talking to a local arrmy recruiter recently, he was complaining how some lower income schools are just passing everyone through, they dont bother to fail anyone. kids are graduating that cant even read. His avg applicant from these schools cant even pass the asvab. No wonder countries like India will soon be taking all of our high skilled jobs (if they arent already)
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
...
Muncie, Indiana (Muncie Central - if you've ever seen Hoosiers, it's the big school that lost 🙁). It's the only school in the state that ever lost academic accreditation. Graduating from a non-accredited high school made it a lot of fun trying to get in to any colleges. 😀 Only reason I didn't drop out was because of sports.
heh, I dated a chick from Muncie once, wonder if she went there, she wasnt too "bright" either.

 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
It's a big reason they want to dismantle public education. Knowledge and wisdom is too dangerous for neocons to handle.
ROFL. Have you ever partaken of public education? Knowledge and wisdom have no place there. Try learning calculus in high school from someone that failed out of college because he couldn't hack it in calculus - welcome to my public education experience.

Interestingly enough, I went to high school at one of the best public high schools in the country, and while classes were very good (I'm STILL ahead of the learning curve in some areas in college now as a result...and I'm a senior), students in general were very politicially conservative (so was I, while I was there). Take that for whatever it's worth, I don't think education=conservative (people there were painfully shallow and very stupid in many ways, that's what comes from being a group of rich white kids with no diversity, ask Minneapolis, MN area residents what they think of Edina), but I DO think that most people want a good education, liberal or conservative.

Edit: I said MOST people because I think there is a possibly growing lack of respect from the right for proper education. Attacking college as nothing more than a bastion for liberal propaganda is the first step into declaring college worthless.

hah edina. 😛 Even up in Fargo we know of you.

Your conservative classmates are conservative because they have WASPy parents. My school was also supposedly one of the best, and amoung the people who i consider to be actually students, there was a fair amount of liberalism.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: alchemize
So, um, where were these students during their formative years???

like say from 5 years old to 12? Who was running things then? 😀
You mean the Republican-controlled House and Senate?

don't forget the SCOTUS!

and the media and their 24/7 clinton flaying.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I'd be looking as to why somebody like that was teaching in your school instead of thinking of ways to destroy public education as a whole.
I didn't say I wanted to destroy public education. It was merely a counterpoint to your statements implying that public education was somehow going to put an end to ignorance.
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
erm.... what? where the hell did you go to school? I didn't even know you could get a job even as a substitute without a degree. 😕
Muncie, Indiana (Muncie Central - if you've ever seen Hoosiers, it's the big school that lost 🙁). It's the only school in the state that ever lost academic accreditation. Graduating from a non-accredited high school made it a lot of fun trying to get in to any colleges. 😀 Only reason I didn't drop out was because of sports.

It's the only school in the state that ever lost academic accreditation.

Graduating from a non-accredited high school made it a lot of fun trying to get in to any colleges.


So this mean you are a fan of NCLB???
 
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Train should appreciate this quote:

I want to take time on this Thanksgiving to thank God I live in a country where, despite so much rampant selfishness, the public schools still manage to produce young men and women ready to voluntarily risk their lives in places like Iraq and Afghanistan to spread the opportunity of freedom and to protect my own. And I want to thank them for doing this, even though on so many days in so many ways we really don't deserve them.

-Thomas Friedman in a NY Times Op-Ed
I never attended a public school (well, unless a state college counts)

But I agree, public schools sure are producing a bunch of blockheads these days. Was talking to a local arrmy recruiter recently, he was complaining how some lower income schools are just passing everyone through, they dont bother to fail anyone. kids are graduating that cant even read. His avg applicant from these schools cant even pass the asvab. No wonder countries like India will soon be taking all of our high skilled jobs (if they arent already)

I just thought that you would appreciate the fact that the public schools produce fresh recruits for the military. My public high school had recruiters visit frequently, and sent student data off to the recruiting office for the recruiters to get leads.
 
I agree these finding are horrible, and dangerous. However, I don't see how this has anything to do with the current administration.

 
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