So fixing the problem is doing something dumb? It's not just a developer problem like you've suggestted above. If it was a developer problem, it wouldn't matter what driver setting you use. With the texture wiggling BFG10K is discussing, it is only annoying on Quality mode and is reduced when moving the driver setting to HQ or using a different card.
So fixing the problem is doing something dumb? It's not just a developer problem like you've suggestted above. If it was a developer problem, it wouldn't matter what driver setting you use. With the texture wiggling BFG10K is discussing, it is only annoying on Quality mode and is reduced when moving the driver setting to HQ or using a different card.Despite my signature (which must be updated), I have a 7950GX2 on my main ring and a Powercolor X1900XT on my kids. I've myself discussed the shimmering in this forum and was accused by Rolo to have "hidden motives" behind
- what a irony !!I will not dispute which card produces the better looks, I think this is personal taste.
Talking only about the shimmering, it's true Nvidia default settings produces horrible results. But if you change 2 or 3 things on the control panel, you can get rid of it.
On the other hand, X1900 produces better looks out of the box, but you cannot eliminate shimmering in some cases. It is not that bad, but it happens.
The 2 games I last compared where Guild Wars and Oblivion. Despite the lack of HDR, I still prefer the Nvidia solution on my machine. Again, it is personal preference.
I guess these battles will never end....
How much is Nvidia performance inflated by the dumbed down "Shimmer-Vision" defaults?
Why does it seem I am the only one to notice or bother mentioning FiringSquid's faulty AA comparison?
Why does it seem I am the only one to notice or bother mentioning FiringSquid's faulty AA comparison?
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,007
- 126
Huh? You deny there's a problem but turn around and blame the developer for the very problem you're denying?
What does any of this have to do with the wiggling textures being reduced/eliminated when moving from Q to HQ?
Also as a matter of interest the AF wheel with Q + all opts off is actually pretty much the same as Q + tri/ani opts on. To get the wheel to significantly change you need to use HQ.
That has to do with the way the different quality modes perform sampling using the texturing units as I've already said earlier in the thread.
double post.
I know exactly how the edit button works Josh. The forums were *extremely* unresponsive at the time i made that post and spat out three posts for the price of one.
I know exactly how the edit button works Josh. The forums were *extremely* unresponsive at the time i made that post and spat out three posts for the price of one.
Cookie Monster
Diamond Member
- May 7, 2005
- 5,161
- 32
- 86
Learn how to use the edit button. You've made three posts that are the same thing.
I'd also suggest you learn how to address the subjects at hand rather than dodging the "divine punishments" or laying the excuses on game developers.
To combat Nvidia's texture wiggling on its default "Quality" mode you've suggested that the problems arrise due to:
[*] A graphics engine glitch
[*]The result of "doing something dumb" and basing "critical rendering decisions" off of deviceid's, capbits or OGL extensions.
Those are not valid substitues to a glitch that is fixed when using the same driver's "High Quality" mode or another card's features. Not to mention the fact that you denied the problem to begin with yet now conjure reasons for the glitch that you previously stated to be non-existent, a monitor defect, and a hallucination.
What's next? Did Baumann secretly implant a defect in all of the G7* series that tainted your divinity?
I'd also suggest you learn how to address the subjects at hand rather than dodging the "divine punishments" or laying the excuses on game developers.
To combat Nvidia's texture wiggling on its default "Quality" mode you've suggested that the problems arrise due to:
[*] A graphics engine glitch
[*]The result of "doing something dumb" and basing "critical rendering decisions" off of deviceid's, capbits or OGL extensions.
Those are not valid substitues to a glitch that is fixed when using the same driver's "High Quality" mode or another card's features. Not to mention the fact that you denied the problem to begin with yet now conjure reasons for the glitch that you previously stated to be non-existent, a monitor defect, and a hallucination.
What's next? Did Baumann secretly implant a defect in all of the G7* series that tainted your divinity?
I might believe you could see some texel shimmering in High Performance mode, particuarly on G70/G71 where Performance/High Performance modes are much worse than they were on NV40, but I certainly don't believe you can see such an issue in quality mode. I certainly do not in the scene you are referencing (just like the SOF intro didn't jerk around like a drunkard for me and COD didn't show madly fluctuating frame rates). If you are seeing anything untoward at all in such an ancient game, it will be related to the developer not taking nvidia's texel coordinate system into account (just like NOLF). It's no great secret that the developers of Serious Sam prefer ATi to nvidia, the latest installment was a GITG effort.
Why anyone would be seriously interested in playing or the IQ of such a stupid title is beyond me anyhow, but its unsuprising this is the sort of game you would like. You may want to try Painkiller if you think SS is good. These games are way too mindless for me though and I wouldn't own them if they didn't come as part graphics card bundles.
Why anyone would be seriously interested in playing or the IQ of such a stupid title is beyond me anyhow, but its unsuprising this is the sort of game you would like. You may want to try Painkiller if you think SS is good. These games are way too mindless for me though and I wouldn't own them if they didn't come as part graphics card bundles.
Thankyou for that useless infromation. We've already established you don't believe that a problem exists.
Once again you are wrong since it can be reduced/fixed by changing a driver setting, which implies that a driver setting is what is causing it.
How does that prove that the problem doesn't exist on Nvidia's Quality mode and that the problem isn't a driver related issue?
..........I don't know about that
You've stated that you don't see the problem BFG10K is mentioning yet you don't even own the game?
It was a question, not an accusation. Thankyou for clarifying an answer.
You still have yet to clarify:
[*]How it is a game engine defect when the driver settings can determine whether it happens or not.
[*]How does the developers favor for ATI hardware support your claim that the problem is nonexistent on Nvidia hardware at default Q settings.
[*]How Open GL extensions, deviceid's, or capbits relate to the wiggling textures apparent on Nvidia's default driver settings.
[*]Why you suggest turning the conformant texture clamp on (which is already on to begin with as well as Open GL restricted) yet also claim that it is the game's graphic engine problem and not the drivers.
[*]Why you are so defensive to what others claim to be poor default driver settings, even if the problem can be fixed within its other settings.
You still have yet to clarify:
[*]How it is a game engine defect when the driver settings can determine whether it happens or not.
[*]How does the developers favor for ATI hardware support your claim that the problem is nonexistent on Nvidia hardware at default Q settings.
[*]How Open GL extensions, deviceid's, or capbits relate to the wiggling textures apparent on Nvidia's default driver settings.
[*]Why you suggest turning the conformant texture clamp on (which is already on to begin with as well as Open GL restricted) yet also claim that it is the game's graphic engine problem and not the drivers.
[*]Why you are so defensive to what others claim to be poor default driver settings, even if the problem can be fixed within its other settings.
It really doesnt matter if you believe it or not. Its there, and its real. What the videos if you need more proof. Its a lot more than "some" to me. And yes, its still there with drivers set to HQ. Still easily seen, and annoying.
schneiderguy
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2006
- 10,801
- 91
- 91
no, it isnt. with all optimizations OFF, there is no visible shimmering on nvidia cards, unless you're purpusely putting your face an inch from the monitor to look for it.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,219
- 55
- 91
Josh, Josh, Josh..... Is it really worth another two weeks (if you're lucky) to keep this up? I mean, it's as if you don't care, or at least don't remember your vacation. It's not worth it dude. Soon this argument will intensify into insults, and then flat out become abomidable. For pages and pages and pages. Just like what happened with you and beggerking.
Point is........ Know when to call it a day.
My grandma said never to do that. She said it would hurt my eyes.
She never did tell me 'bout red vs. green though.
My above quote was not an insult claiming that he was drunk, hallucinating, or using faulty hardware. (The argument with beggerking was not just me either, everyone disagreed with him in that thread.)
We are attempting to discuss an issue that is known to be an image quality problem in an image quality comparison thread. If he wants to continue his insults, I have no problem with a Mod looking into his use of "fvckwit", "befuddled friend", "clueless moron" and substance abuse analogies.
If you're going to warn, warn all of whom are deserving.
IYO it is annoying, but IMO HQ can heavily reduce the amount of shimmering that is normally apparent. HQ does not portray as annoying levels of shimmering, texture crawling/wiggling that Q can, and it is comparible to some of ATI's IQ when in that hightened state. I'm not completely disagreeing with you, just saying that you seem to exaggerate a little bit with Nvidia's HQ mode. But, to each their own I guess.
This argument keeps going because some people REFUSE to accept that the nvidia default drivers favor speed over image quality. All it takes is a few tweaks and that is changed. However, nvidia currently takes a big hit when doing that.
Since a lot of review sites do not do this, it gives the false impression that the games are running @ equal image quality settings and skews the fps results. NOT in ATI's favor, I might add.
Since a lot of review sites do not do this, it gives the false impression that the games are running @ equal image quality settings and skews the fps results. NOT in ATI's favor, I might add.
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