Firing Squad - ATI's Radeon X1950 XTX CrossFire: Quad SLI killer?

[LittleNemoNES]

I did download the game. It's one of those run and gun games. quite comical and you seem to have infinite health! I understand you like it but...Its really hard for me to accept, logically speaking, that the game looks better than Oblivion. better than Halo 1? yes

Ah, that's why. That would probably get one around 12 fps. It's a good thing there isn't many chain-link fences in Oblivion.

The game has enough transparencies to make your head spin!! AAA is a BIG nono with Oblivion. Maybe next gen. Also, if they used Quality adaptive AA, They shouldn't have cos in the chuck drivers read me, it states how it disables crossfire mode. It's a limitation of the way they got AA to work with Oblivion's HDR implementation.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Certainly the X1950XTX CF is not a 7950GX2 SLi killer. (Quad SLi).

We all know Quad SLi is still not mature enough, and the fact the latest quad SLI drivers were mostly to iron out most of the stability issues. According to INQ (yes i know), NV is going to release a "performance" driver for Quad SLI/SLI i think it was.

Now the only advantage quad SLi has is in OpenGL games and some D3d games like F.E.A.R/BF2, where 4 way AFR works perfectly fine. Look at the FPS.

20x15 8xAA 16xAF
X1950XTX: 37.1
7900GTX SLI: 35.5
7950GX2 SLI: 51.9

Thats a whopping 15~ fps lead.

The X1950XTX CF is quite impressive, but once Quad becomes mature, it wont be able to touch it, except maybe when you crank up the AA past 8x. (NV seems to take a huge hit enabling 16xAA because they do it the more traditional way while ATi has their compostion chips on their master cards meaning less of a hit in performance).

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: gersson
I did download the game. It's one of those run and gun games. quite comical and you seem to have infinite health! I understand you like it but...Its really hard for me to accept, logically speaking, that the game looks better than Oblivion. better than Halo 1? yes

Ah, that's why. That would probably get one around 12 fps. It's a good thing there isn't many chain-link fences in Oblivion.

The game has enough transparencies to make your head spin!! AAA is a BIG nono with Oblivion. Maybe next gen. Also, if they used Quality adaptive AA, They shouldn't have cos in the chuck drivers read me, it states how it disables crossfire mode. It's a limitation of the way they got AA to work with Oblivion's HDR implementation.

Then you haven't played the game :! you can die real easy :? did you plan on pc or console because on PC it really isn't that great :! I have a really high end pc

Also you can do much much more than just run and gun people down. I don't think you have played the game and i think you just did some quick readup and typing it some bull crap up.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
The X1950XTX CF is quite impressive, but once Quad becomes mature, it wont be able to touch it

If G80 eventually gets the rumored power consumptions toned down, hopefully this Quad-SLI beta testing will benefit Nvidia's future DX10 card. DX10 software may be a while ahead, but the hardware is certainly right around the corner, and I imagine Nvidia might be able to save themselves some trouble in the future if they perfect the multi-GPU platform. ATI is still playing catch-up in that sector, and the gap isn't too large any longer. Much like how ATI saved themselves some R&D with implementing a ring-bus memory controller early it has now saved them time and money implementing it easily to their X1950's and R600's, I see Nvidia utilizing a more concrete version of Quad-SLI on future hardware.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
The X1950XTX CF is quite impressive, but once Quad becomes mature, it wont be able to touch it

If G80 eventually gets the rumored power consumptions toned down, hopefully this Quad-SLI beta testing will benefit Nvidia's future DX10 card. DX10 software may be a while ahead, but the hardware is certainly right around the corner, and I imagine Nvidia might be able to save themselves some trouble in the future if they perfect the multi-GPU platform. ATI is still playing catch-up in that sector, and the gap isn't too large any longer. Much like how ATI saved themselves some R&D with implementing a ring-bus memory controller early it has now saved them time and money implementing it easily to their X1950's and R600's, I see Nvidia utilizing a more concrete version of Quad-SLI on future hardware.

QFT. The experiences gained from Quad SLi now means, better support and more maturity for the upcomnig DX10 GPUs from NV.

ATi hasnt even had the time to even think about Quad as they are playing catch up in the dual GPU sector. Not good, but they will get there eventually unless they are thinking of something else.

Since you mentioned G80, some site mentioned a november release of the cards. With specualation of the G80 being a "full" 32 "pipeline" card with 16 "vertex shaders" and a mention that the architecture is fully redesigned. We cannot compare the DX10 pipeline with a DX9 one (not to mention the changes in the ALUs and such), but this card is going to be a beast .

 

[josh6079]

Both cards sound like they're going to be beasts. Even my powersupply is dreading their launch.......

Edit:

Here's my video clips I said I would show.

http://media.putfile.com/Oblivion-Foliage-2
http://media.putfile.com/Deer-Killing

 

[dug777]

I can't see why Quad SLI is taken seriously myself.

It's sensationally expensive, buggy as all hell, and will no doubt be made look foolish by single/dual card setups not too far down the track, with none of the hassle.

To think that ATI is somewhat missing out by not having a Quad setup yet seems laughable, i can't imagine nvidia is making much money out of it, and i can imagine the headaches it's causing them.

Bottom line: Quad SLI has been out for quite a while now, at the current rate of 'ironing-out' the massive issues that have and do exist, you will be able to buy something that can do the same job or better from both nvidia & ATI, with added feature support (DX10 ring a bell anyone?), and that actually works when you buy it, by the time this mysterious 'ironing out' process is finished.

EDIT: i also fail to see how the Quad experience will help nvidia in any meaningful way with DX10 parts since it will never, ever be a mainstream thing, or anything other than an ultra-crazy-uber-somewhat tragically obssesed with videogames niche thing as far as i can see...i suppose there's the 'attract the morons to our lower end parts because we also make the fastest, most expensive, most buggy solution out there, and somehow there's a magical link between our entire product range' factor to take into account tho...

*end of dug's 2c*

Off topic, can you use dual montitors with SLI or quad SLI enabled yet? If that issue still exists, it's something that would make CF look very attractive to me...

EDIT2: i can't quite see how ATI is playing catchup in the dual area when X1950 CF is faster than 7900GTX SLI in most areas from the benchmarks i've seen...

EDIT3:



This post was a dramatic waste of a few mins of my life :shy;

*dug777 plans a life where he never comments on computer components ever again*

 

[BFG10K]

They tested at HQ driver settings

Wow, you're right, they did too. Hopefully it's an epidemic that will catch on. :thumbsup:

Why is even the 7900 sli beating the 7950 quad?

Mainly because of driver overhead and the fact that CPU limited settings are used (i.e. 4xAA is not even close to tax Quad SLI).

That and because Direct3D allows a maximum render-ahead of 3 frames instead of 4 that Quad SLI needs for optimum AFR performance.

It's a good thing there isn't many chain-link fences in Oblivion.

Chain-link fences are not a problem for AAA/TrAA, large amounts of vegetation is. That's when each individual leaf and blade of grass gets AA'd before the scene can be resolved.

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: dug777
I can't see why Quad SLI is taken seriously myself.

It's sensationally expensive, buggy as all hell, and will no doubt be made look foolish by single/dual card setups not too far down the track, with none of the hassle.

sounds like what they said about sli a year or so ago.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: rise

Originally posted by: dug777
I can't see why Quad SLI is taken seriously myself.

It's sensationally expensive, buggy as all hell, and will no doubt be made look foolish by single/dual card setups not too far down the track, with none of the hassle.

sounds like what they said about sli a year or so ago.

I thought SLI had been around longer than that? My comment is correct regardless tho, just take a look at the X1950XT compared to SLI 6800Ultras, or even more recently say SLI 7800GTs, or even SLI 7900GTs and even then it comes out looking pretty damn good, as well as adding features...besides which, SLI is still anything but mainstream, still has it's fair share of hassles, and no one has answered my question regarding SLI dual monitor support...

I really hate people who take a small section of your post & pick at it however, what i wrote was meant to be read & addressed as a whole

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: rise

Originally posted by: dug777
I can't see why Quad SLI is taken seriously myself.

It's sensationally expensive, buggy as all hell, and will no doubt be made look foolish by single/dual card setups not too far down the track, with none of the hassle.

sounds like what they said about sli a year or so ago.

I thought SLI had been around longer than that? My comment is correct regardless tho, just take a look at the X1950XT compared to SLI 6800Ultras, or even more recently say SLI 7800GTs, or even SLI 7900GTs and even then it comes out looking pretty damn good, as well as adding features...besides which, SLI is still anything but mainstream, still has it's fair share of hassles, and no one has answered my question regarding SLI dual monitor support...

I really hate people who take a small section of your post & pick at it however, what i wrote was meant to be read & addressed as a whole

Quad-SLI isn't really what I would call "Sensationally expensive", I paid more for 7800GTX SLI a year ago than you would for Quad-SLI now. That being said, it does need some work. I'm also not so sure if Quad-SLI is going to really be possible with G80 in the immediate future. If the talk about heat and power draw are true, it probably won't be possible. Quad-SLI is only possible today because of all the effort NVIDIA has out forth making the G7x core more efficient, which I think is going to take a back seat to performance with the initial DX10 cards.

I think the two monitor support thing is an issue with both SLI and Crossfire IIRC... I'm really not sure because I've only got one screen.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986

Originally posted by: gersson
I did download the game. It's one of those run and gun games. quite comical and you seem to have infinite health! I understand you like it but...Its really hard for me to accept, logically speaking, that the game looks better than Oblivion. better than Halo 1? yes

Ah, that's why. That would probably get one around 12 fps. It's a good thing there isn't many chain-link fences in Oblivion.

The game has enough transparencies to make your head spin!! AAA is a BIG nono with Oblivion. Maybe next gen. Also, if they used Quality adaptive AA, They shouldn't have cos in the chuck drivers read me, it states how it disables crossfire mode. It's a limitation of the way they got AA to work with Oblivion's HDR implementation.

Then you haven't played the game :! you can die real easy :? did you plan on pc or console because on PC it really isn't that great :! I have a really high end pc

Also you can do much much more than just run and gun people down. I don't think you have played the game and i think you just did some quick readup and typing it some bull crap up.

WTF you sure are a fanboy of the game. Just buy their stock if you like them that much...or pay them a visit. I'm sorry I 'insulted' YOUR game. :laugh:

 

[rbV5]

I think the two monitor support thing is an issue with both SLI and Crossfire IIRC... I'm really not sure because I've only got one screen

I'm running 3 displays on my Crossfire rig. Crossfire enabled = single display support only.

I guess peeps would like to span monitors for multi-display gaming dual card support...is there a lot of call for that? Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but I don't see much point in using dual GPU's working together to then support more than one display.

It's also just a matter of unchecking the Crossfire feature in the drivers....back to multiple displays...check the checkbox...back to Crossfire single display for gaming. Is SLI more of a PITA than that? because its not much of a PITA to be perfectly honest.

 

[nitromullet]

I think switching between SLI/Crossfire and multiple monitors is about the same on both. I know with SLI you can disable it even if you have two cards and the bridge installed. I agree with you about combining gpu's to support more than one display. It kind of defeats the purpose of a multi-card/gpu setup for gaming IMO.

 

[josh6079]

IIRC, SLI also requires you to restart your computer.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: josh6079
IIRC, SLI also requires you to restart your computer.

I could see the reason for complaints if that were true, as I switch back and forth quite often.

For Crossfire, you would only have to reboot if you were to Crossfire cards with different framebuffers (X1800 CF Edition 512 MB with a X1800 XL 256MB for example) With that situation, enabling Crossfire requires a reboot to disable half the memory for the CF Edition card, another reboot to again re-enable memory when you want to disable Crossfire and use multi-displays.

 

[CP5670]

Since the 80 series drivers (IIRC), you can toggle SLI on and off without restarting.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: Ackmed
And yet they show Oblivion with HDR+AA very playable. Despite his claims otherwise. Funny, I and others have been saying its playable for some time.

12 FPS is playable?

I have Crossfired X1900's. He told me time and time again, I wasnt getting playable frames. Obviously, I was. Especially since my cards were overclocked, which I mentioned.

Also, nice of you to pick the lowest fps graph. Something he would do.

/pwned!

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: CP5670
Since the 80 series drivers (IIRC), you can toggle SLI on and off without restarting.

Really? Is there a "Reset Display Driver" option or something equivalent?

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: CP5670
Since the 80 series drivers (IIRC), you can toggle SLI on and off without restarting.

Really? Is there a "Reset Display Driver" option or something equivalent?

It's true. I had SLI 7800 GT late last year and it was possible. Is the Vsync SLI deal fixed yet?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: Ackmed
And yet they show Oblivion with HDR+AA very playable. Despite his claims otherwise. Funny, I and others have been saying its playable for some time.

12 FPS is playable?

I have Crossfired X1900's. He told me time and time again, I wasnt getting playable frames. Obviously, I was. Especially since my cards were overclocked, which I mentioned.

Also, nice of you to pick the lowest fps graph. Something he would do.

/pwned!

I'm not quite sure I see the pwnage here...

I mean, it's not as if anyone would pick anything other than the lowest benchmarks to make their point in this situation. Plus, it also goes along with Ackmed's desire to see benches run at high quality settings/opts off etc to see how the cards hold up when really pushed... Taking Oblivion specifically, I adjust the settings so the most challenging parts (foliage) are smooth, not the dungeons. That not only gives me smooth overall play outdoors, but it also helps eliminate dips indoors during battle. Finally, he didn't actually pick the lowest graph. There is still the one for 1920x1200 (which I think Ackmed plays at) and the 2048x1536 graph as well.

That being said, I do agree with Ackmed that Oblivion is playable with HDR+AA with even a single XTX (at least at 1680x1050). However, I usually play with HDR+ 4xAA/8xAF without AAA. With a Crossfire rig, 24FPS in Oblivion is certainly playable - it isn't exactly a twitch game.

 

[Compddd]

I play Oblivion at 1920 x 1200 (my dell 2405fp forces me too) with all IQ on max + AA HDR with chuck patch. It is super playable for me. Crossfire isn't required to make it playable.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

I'm not quite sure I see the pwnage here...

I mean, it's not as if anyone would pick anything other than the lowest benchmarks to make their point in this situation. Plus, it also goes along with Ackmed's desire to see benches run at high quality settings/opts off etc to see how the cards hold up when really pushed... Taking Oblivion specifically, I adjust the settings so the most challenging parts (foliage) are smooth, not the dungeons. That not only gives me smooth overall play outdoors, but it also helps eliminate dips indoors during battle. Finally, he didn't actually pick the lowest graph. There is still the one for 1920x1200 (which I think Ackmed plays at) and the 2048x1536 graph as well.

That being said, I do agree with Ackmed that Oblivion is playable with HDR+AA with even a single XTX (at least at 1680x1050). However, I usually play with HDR+ 4xAA/8xAF without AAA. With a Crossfire rig, 24FPS in Oblivion is certainly playable - it isn't exactly a twitch game.

Well, the fact that I had X1900's in CF, when crusader accused me of lying, and that I wasnt getting playable frames is one reason schneiderguy was wrong. Secondly, as mentioned before, AAA is a rather large performance hit on games with Foliage. And I never said I used it. Lowest for 1600x1200, he doesnt know what res I used. He tried, no denying that.

 

[nitromullet]

No doubt. The comment wasn't really about your post, but about the 'pwnage' remark. Oblivion is playable with HDR+AA with an X1900XT(X), period. We both know that because we've done it, so they can say it can't be done all they want...

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
No doubt. The comment wasn't really about your post, but about the 'pwnage' remark. Oblivion is playable with HDR+AA with an X1900XT(X), period. We both know that because we've done it, so they can say it can't be done all they want...

QFT. We said HDR+AA was playable, not HDR+AAA.