Firewood theft. This an ethical way to deal with it?

[Brian Stirling]

There are people in prison right now for doing nothing more than setting a booby trap for criminals and having a criminal injured or killed by it. And, since you planned this booby trap and spent time thinking about it, building it and planting it the crime is aggravated with premeditation. So, you set a booby trap and a BG dies -- guess what, you go to jail for life or get a needle and are put to sleep -- not good options where I come from...


Brian

 

[Meghan54]

Camera is the best idea. Booby traps are very illegal.

 

[NoTine42]

Really shouldn't expect any less, but I'll respond anyway.

I can get 10MB cable internet where I live. I also get natural gas. I go 500 yards away from me and natural gas is not an option. They are on LP gas. LP rates have tripled this year. Some people were facing $900 tabs to fill up a big LP tank for the year.

Instead of LP you can put in a small shed outside your home (we are on acre+ lots), drop a giant wood burner in there, burry the lines underground to keep them out of the elements and use that to heat your home. Or you use it in tandem with a geothermal setup to maintain your pre-heated tanks to take the burden off of the primary heat exchanger in the dead of winter. That's not archaic by any means, it's actually a pretty progressive way of reducing a demand from the utility company.

Woods not free by any means. Not all wood is good for burning, you still need to pay gas to cut it down, split it, and haul it. Plus you need access to decent amounts of it which may not always be easy.

Only $900/year? I just used $900 in LP in the past 4 weeks. Typically that can last for nearly 2 winter months, but not this unusually cold winter :/

 

[IronWing]

Stick a peanut on top of the pile. Allergies will fell a wood be thief at 100m.

 

[KaOTiK]

I'd make it a stink/smoke bomb inside of it.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Well, no, I wouldn't say a potentially lethal booby trap is ethical or justified. Rigging up something to drop, say, paint on the perp would be great though.

 

[DrPizza]

It's a petty thing to steal, but it's also a petty thing to get super upset about. With that said though, firewood is not expensive, and if you get to a point where you're stealing it, you:

a) Did not plan your winter out properly.
b) You're cheap, and you found it more convenient opportunity to steal your firewood than to buy it.

Very, very rarely is it:

c) You're desperate and freezing.

My parents store a lot of firewood for the winter, and honestly, the only way to really handle this is to cage it if it's actually a problem in your area. Most people don't cage their wood, so you'll probably be the only person in a 200 mile radius doing this, but it's a good way to deter thieves.

Do NOT build boobytraps. That is against the law and you'd get in way, way bigger trouble than the thieves if you got caught.

For some areas, this is a far colder winter than people are used to. E.g., the recent propane shortage. By the end of this month, I'll have used the same amount of fuel (anthracite) that I used all of last winter. I do have a lot of firewood ready to burn, but don't have a woodstove. Oddly, I'm that one in 200 miles person. The firewood is in a fenced in back yard. And, that fence is within another set of fencing - I was considering selling the firewood, but that would be a major pain in the neck to move out of the backyard and to someone's pickup truck.

 

[poofyhairguy]

 

[SearchMaster]

I disagree. Do you have any idea how much work firewood actually is? I love the people who say firewood is free. You have to cut the trees down and then slice the trunks into firewood lenghts. Don't forget the large amount of twigs, leaves and branches too small to make into firewood to dispose of. Then you need to split it. And stack it. And then season it occupying space on your property for 1 or 2 years depending on what kind of wood in a shelter that keeps the rain off of it. From the time you cut it to the time you are actually burning it, you have also moved each piece of wood 2-5 times. That pickup truck and trailer, chainsaw and log splitter also need gasoline, engine oil, bar oil and regular maintenance too. And your own time is expensive too, to do all of this!

In short, considering the amount of work needed, I'd be pretty pissed off if someone were stealing firewood from me.

My last two batches of firewood have been $50 and $40, this is basically a regular size ('92 GMC Sonoma) pickup truck filled (don't know how much that is relative to a cord). I haven't bought any this year because I had enough left over from the last two years. I don't heat my entire house with it but my kids do like to burn it fairly often, including in the fire pit. And one load lasts at least a season, usually 1.5 seasons here in Georgia.

For that kind of price, I'm not DIYing it. If I was going through several hundred dollars a year, I might think about it but I doubt it.

 

[smackababy]

My last two batches of firewood have been $50 and $40, this is basically a regular size ('92 GMC Sonoma) pickup truck filled (don't know how much that is relative to a cord). I haven't bought any this year because I had enough left over from the last two years. I don't heat my entire house with it but my kids do like to burn it fairly often, including in the fire pit. And one load lasts at least a season, usually 1.5 seasons here in Georgia.

For that kind of price, I'm not DIYing it. If I was going through several hundred dollars a year, I might think about it but I doubt it.

It all depends where you're at. When I was living in Texas, we could get firewood for free, because there is little use for it. We had a wood burning stove (for novelty) and getting wood was a simple as driving until you found someone doing some tree cutting and filling your truck up with it. You might have to split it yourself, but that is pretty trivial. It was also advisable to inspect it for poison ivy before burning it. Inhaling ivy smoke is extremely dangerous.

 

[vi edit]

Only $900/year? I just used $900 in LP in the past 4 weeks. Typically that can last for nearly 2 winter months, but not this unusually cold winter :/

Oops, yeah that should have been month...not year. Nearly $1000 tabs to fill up the last few months.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Unfortunately today's laws protect thieves. You just need to make it harder to get to.

Today's laws. Laws from 100 years ago. Laws from 200 years ago. Laws from Great Britain long before the US even became colonies...

Get what I'm saying here?

The use of deadly force to protect property (other than a dwelling) has never been acceptable under US Tort Law. Want an example? State v. Vance, 17 Iowa 138 (1864). That case is 150 years old and it still clearly states that, "a mere trespass against property other than a dwelling is not a sufficient justification to authorize the use of a deadly weapon by the owner in its defense; and that if death results in such a case it will be murder, though the killing be actually necessary to prevent the trespass."

The use of force has had a proportionality requirement in common law for centuries. "Modern laws" have nothing to do with it.

ZV

 

[sandorski]

Booby trapping, at the very least, is exceedingly stupid. What happens when you, your spouse, a friend, or one of your kids grabs one of the booby trapped logs by mistake?

Just get a camera and/or just put a motion sensing light near it.

 

[DaveSimmons]

A magnesium, phosphorous and thermite filling would be a very bad idea.

 

[Thebobo]

Electrically at wood pile? How about some motion activated flood lights.

 

[Ventanni]

I disagree. Do you have any idea how much work firewood actually is? I love the people who say firewood is free. You have to cut the trees down and then slice the trunks into firewood lenghts. Don't forget the large amount of twigs, leaves and branches too small to make into firewood to dispose of. Then you need to split it. And stack it. And then season it occupying space on your property for 1 or 2 years depending on what kind of wood in a shelter that keeps the rain off of it. From the time you cut it to the time you are actually burning it, you have also moved each piece of wood 2-5 times. That pickup truck and trailer, chainsaw and log splitter also need gasoline, engine oil, bar oil and regular maintenance too. And your own time is expensive too, to do all of this!

In short, considering the amount of work needed, I'd be pretty pissed off if someone were stealing firewood from me.

I do, actually. I've loaded, chopped, and stacked firewood. It's a lot of work. I'd be pissed too if someone stole it, but I would not go as far as booby-trapping it to prevent others from taking advantage of my hard work.

I guess I should clarify that statement I made. It's a petty thing to steal firewood, but it's a petty thing to booby-trap it as a response to being upset with someone stealing from you. There are more adult ways, more legal ways, of handling that type of situation.

 

[MetalMat]

That is exactly what I was thinking 😛

 

[gotsmack]

if you fill the wood and the thief gets hurt how are you going to get in trouble? He's going to tell the cops he stole wood from you and he got hurt?

Then what? You say that that's a made up story and only a crazy person would do that.

Just fill 1 log (so if the rest of the wood gets inspected you won't get caught) with something that throws off a lot of fire so hopefully you set the bastards house on fire.

Hey, if you take the risk to steal, you should be ready to accept the consequences when someone finds out.

At the very least I would invest in motion cameras and flood lights, then set up a huge sign on my front yard with a color photo and address of the person stealing my wood for public shaming.

 

[boomhower]

Likely illegal as well. For instance it's illegal to booby trap your door with a shotgun to kill burglars.(at least in my state)

 

[Doppel]

This was debated amongst the guys here at work and I figured it would make a good topic for a forum poll.

Due to the severely cold winter, some people around here that heat with firewood are noticing theft from their woodpiles. One of our coworkers commented that near him, there have been reports of people having not just a few pieces of wood stolen, but their entire wood piles gone!

So we started talking about what effective ways we have to deal with such a crime and the usual install cameras, fence, lock up the wood pile in a shed were tossed around. One coworkers tells a story he heard about a guy he knew who was so fed up with someone stealing firewood, he bored some holes in some innocent looking logs and filled the holes with explosive. Whether it was actual explosive, fireworks, firearm propellant etc... I don't know. He sealed the hole with a cap and some glue and the tampered logs now blended in with the rest of the firewood. Anyway the point of his story was that the guy one day heard a bang, followed by smoke coming out of a nearby house and then firetrucks were soon seen on his street. The guy who planted the explosives stayed quiet about what he did but theft from his woodpile ceased after that.

So the poll question: Is is ethical to plant this kind of boobytrap to deter theft?

I'm on the side that this is an occupational hazard of a thief and you deserve anything coming to you if this is the path you choose to take. Stealing firewood is like stealing food and some people around here, especially those with big noticeable woodpiles heat exclusively with wood and have no alternative heat sources. The aforementioned people who had their entire piles stolen were royally fucked when they got home and saw no more wood!

The counterpoint was presented by a coworker who did not approve of doing something that could harm innocent people aka what if his kids were in front of the woodstove when the explosives detonated? He didn't think it was ok to do something retaliatory on this scale over firewood especially when it could harm others. Poll for your voting...

That is an old wive's tale and absolutely illegal.

 

[Doppel]

Today's laws. Laws from 100 years ago. Laws from 200 years ago. Laws from Great Britain long before the US even became colonies...

Get what I'm saying here?

The use of deadly force to protect property (other than a dwelling) has never been acceptable under US Tort Law. Want an example? State v. Vance, 17 Iowa 138 (1864). That case is 150 years old and it still clearly states that, "a mere trespass against property other than a dwelling is not a sufficient justification to authorize the use of a deadly weapon by the owner in its defense; and that if death results in such a case it will be murder, though the killing be actually necessary to prevent the trespass."

The use of force has had a proportionality requirement in common law for centuries. "Modern laws" have nothing to do with it.

ZV

Go tell that to Texas, where it's still illegal to shoot somebody walking on your yard, but if they steal a radio from your car at night and they are running away from you it's perfectly legal to shoot them in the back.

In the civilized world of course you're absolutely correct, and that is in other countries as well.

 

[Kadarin]

if someone is desperate enough to steal wood, then they need it more than me.

Or they're just too lazy to buy or chop it themselves. I hate thieves.

But yeah, if you're going to be setting a booby trap, you should calculate in the consequences of injuring (or worse) an innocent party.

 

[xanis]

At the very least I would invest in motion cameras and flood lights, then set up a huge sign on my front yard with a color photo and address of the person stealing my wood for public shaming.

I like this. I'm thinking a few good 24x36 full-color posters of the thieves posted around the neighborhood would be good. Maybe even put up a sign on your property that just says, "Smile for the cameras". I hate thieves as much as the next guy, but I think the violence should be skipped for this one; a good, thorough public humiliation would suffice.

 

[waggy]

having a woodburning stove is saving me this year. Propane prices have gone insane. for less then $100 i get enough wood that last nearly all winter (though i ran out of precut stuff. had to cut some i had sitting near my shed)

I fire it up and get it hot. it stays hot for hours and keeps the house warm.

 

[Jeff7]

Putting explosives into the wood opens you up to liability.

If you want a good way to get back at them. Soak the wood so when they toss it on the flame smoke will ensue for hours.

But I suggest storing the wood so as not so easily stolen.

Hang a sign nearby:
"Caution: Logs may contain mild explosives."


If I choose to store exploding logs on my own property, shouldn't I have the right to do that? :sneaky:

(I suppose that, in a reasonable country, this would be the case.)