Firefox users: Mozilla's plan is troubling

[coffeemonster]

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14846&sid=f229e87c9006e7f968f1167d455e36d6

For those of you who, like me, prefer firefox(and forks) for all it's differences to chrome, especially customizability and a huge catalog of extensions. Check out palemoon if you havent.

Waterfox may end up continuing on as a separate fork, dev is in a decision phase
http://www.overclock.net/t/975626/waterfox-52-15-march-firefox-64-bit

 

[EXCellR8]

I don't think I'd mind FF going away... I mean it's still a great browser (for the most part) but I could do without all the addons and bloat-ons that need to be updated once a week.

My usage between FF and Chrome is nearly 50/50... maybe 48/48 +2% being edge

 

[Malogeek]

My usage between FF and Chrome is nearly 50/50

Out of curiosity, why do you split your usage evenly between the 2 browsers?

 

[EXCellR8]

I was only using Chrome for awhile, but then I started installing FF again on some newer machines. So, some older builds have Chrome, and most of the newer ones have FF. there's really no rhyme or reason to which one I install but I bounce around from computer to computer during the week. I have one in nearly every room of the house; even in the garage for quick CEL lookups

 

[mikeymikec]

Mozilla's plan has been troubling for about ten years, the stupidity started creeping in around version 3.

What Mozilla needs to do is concentrate all its developer time on performance enhancements (e.g. multiprocess - a browser that was ahead of the curve would have had this capability in say 2008, rather than an infantile implementation in 2017!), security enhancements, bug-fixing and adherence to the latest html/css standards. UI changes should only be allowed to facilitate to facilitate those enhancements. Any other functionality should be mainly considered as add-on territory. Then maybe, just maybe, they can make a respectable alternative to say Chrome in a few years' time.

Or they can re-arrange deckchairs for a while longer. This feels like an IE8-like era in Firefox development. I'm sure they're thinking that they're doing a great job, unfortunately reality says otherwise.

 

[pcslookout]

I disagree firefox is still going strong here! I know about Firefox 57 though.

That is why I am on Firefox ESR.

 

[ImpulsE69]

FF isn't my issue. Flash is, if they'd figure out a way to handle flash in house that would be amazing. Too many things still use/need it to just 'not' use it. I only use a small handful of plugins, so those tend not to be a problem, but FF HAS gotten bloaty.

 

[pcslookout]

FF isn't my issue. Flash is, if they'd figure out a way to handle flash in house that would be amazing. Too many things still use/need it to just 'not' use it. I only use a small handful of plugins, so those tend not to be a problem, but FF HAS gotten bloaty.

No it has not.

 

[mikeymikec]

FF isn't my issue. Flash is, if they'd figure out a way to handle flash in house that would be amazing.

'Liked' at least insofar as handling in-house. It's a significant reason these days not to recommend Firefox for newbies (although that argument applies less when Win7 is involved).

 

[Elixer]

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14846&sid=f229e87c9006e7f968f1167d455e36d6

For those of you who, like me, prefer firefox(and forks) for all it's differences to chrome, especially customizability and a huge catalog of extensions. Check out palemoon if you havent.

Waterfox may end up continuing on as a separate fork, dev is in a decision phase
http://www.overclock.net/t/975626/waterfox-52-15-march-firefox-64-bit

Problem is, if you happen to use another fork, there is basically 0 support if something doesn't work on some site.
Right now, most only will fix issues if the browser is FF | Chrome | safari | Edge / IE. Once you tell them you are using something else, they just tell you to use one of those.

 

[coffeemonster]

Problem is, if you happen to use another fork, there is basically 0 support if something doesn't work on some site.
Right now, most only will fix issues if the browser is FF | Chrome | safari | Edge / IE. Once you tell them you are using something else, they just tell you to use one of those.

this is discussed in the linked thread and on that forum

 

[ninaholic37]

No surprise that people on the Palemoon forum are dissing Mozilla/Firefox. This is not new (where's the "lol" emoji on this forum? This is the closest I could find: )

 

[Mem]

I don't think I'd mind FF going away... I mean it's still a great browser (for the most part) but I could do without all the addons and bloat-ons that need to be updated once a week.

My usage between FF and Chrome is nearly 50/50... maybe 48/48 +2% being edge

I started using Firefox way back since Version 2 or so, nowadays I actually use Vivaldi, it's 100% rock stable unlike FF which would have weird random lockups even with hardware acceleration disabled and I ruled out my extensions ( only use 3).

I do miss the old Opera but Vivaldi is as close as I can get to the old Opera, end of the day FF got worst for me over the years (ie went from rock stable to lockup issues).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I started using Firefox way back since Version 2 or so, nowadays I actually use Vivaldi, it's 100% rock stable unlike FF which would have weird random lockups even with hardware acceleration disabled and I ruled out my extensions ( only use 3).

I've switched my daily browsing to Vivaldi too. Been using FF since version 0.91 in fact. When I do go back to plain vanilla FF, its starting to feel somewhat, I don't know, antiquated might be the right term. I have to customise FF quite a bit to fit my habits, and since I've found Chrome versions of the few addons I use regularly, FF's biggest draw has vanished.

 

[coffeemonster]

Vivaldi is getting there but it still has very little interface arrangement options, and lacks a few simple functionality's that annoy me. Can't right-click edit bookmarks on the bar for example. I remember you used to not be able to drag tabs off to make a separate window or drag bookmarks into folders on the bar, but they added those finally.

It's also more of a resource hog than palemoon or slimjet so I can't use it on my aging work laptop.
Currently my main non-firefox based browser is Slimjet. It's a faster chrome clone with a nice built in youtube video downloader that I wish I could get on other browsers

But what has kept me on firefox and it's forks for so long is simple customization, especially with the interface. Options that don't require add-ons, all in about:config. With chrome(and clones) you have to install an addon just to stop GIFs from autoplaying.

 

[Ichinisan]

FF isn't my issue. Flash is, if they'd figure out a way to handle flash in house that would be amazing. Too many things still use/need it to just 'not' use it. I only use a small handful of plugins, so those tend not to be a problem, but FF HAS gotten bloaty.

Why are people looking for ways to keep using Flash? Should be looking for ways to stop using it.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Why are people looking for ways to keep using Flash? Should be looking for ways to stop using it.

Sure..build me something that works like flash for the 100's if not 1000's of reasons of things that need it and we'll talk. Just 'not' using it is not an option for most and there simply is no alternative.

I already don't use web sites that want me to remove ad blockers. We have limits here

 

[Ichinisan]

Sure..build me something that works like flash for the 100's if not 1000's of reasons of things that need it and we'll talk. Just 'not' using it is not an option for most and there simply is no alternative.

I already don't use web sites that want me to remove ad blockers. We have limits here

Ever since Speedtest.net started supporting HTML5, I manually disabled Flash in Chrome and haven't looked back.

What is it you do that still requires it?

 

[ImpulsE69]

Ever since Speedtest.net started supporting HTML5, I manually disabled Flash in Chrome and haven't looked back.

What is it you do that still requires it?

What really doesn't matter. It's a valid point. I mean, why do you care about speedtest.net supporting HTML5, do you spend all your time there and if so, why? I've used it like 5 times in my life. I use HTML5 on youtube, but if it didn't, I'd still be using it. So I mean I could name all the things I do that require it, but it really doesn't solve anything. The fact is, Flash is still widely used, sad but true. Until everyone has quit making web pages with it, it won't go away. It is pretty much disabled by default in FF, so it's not like it just randomly starts. You have to approve it works, but that doesn't make it any less buggy.

I will say one of them involves p0rn.

 

[Ichinisan]

What really doesn't matter. It's a valid point. I mean, why do you care about speedtest.net supporting HTML5,

Because Flash is responsible for most of the stability/performance problems and a good chunk of the security vulnerabilities on any browser that has it.

do you spend all your time there and if so, why? I've used it like 5 times in my life.

I use Speedtest.net (and the corresponding mobile apps published by Ookla) all the time because I work for an ISP.

I use HTML5 on youtube, but if it didn't, I'd still be using it. So I mean I could name all the things I do that require it, but it really doesn't solve anything. The fact is, Flash is still widely used, sad but true.

I don't believe it's as widely used as you think. Chrome has already disabled it for the majority of websites. This was many many months ago. I took it a step further and disabled Flash entirely and I just never encounter anything anymore that requires it.

Until everyone has quit making web pages with it, it won't go away.

No. It's pretty much gone. You're seeing where these sites still abuse the fact that you still have it.

It is pretty much disabled by default in FF, so it's not like it just randomly starts. You have to approve it works, but that doesn't make it any less buggy.

The overwhelming majority of these web sites will not prompt you to approve or install Flash if you completely remove it. They're detecting that you still have it. You're the reason it took so long for Flash to die.

I will say one of them involves p0rn.

Really? Why would porn sites require flash? They work on mobile devices that don't even have flash (ask me how I know).

If an unscrupulous site wanted me to enable Flash.... EFF THAT! Seriously.

Damn.

If those sites really do require it, you really need to find an alternative way to consume Internet content. The very last thing I would do is give in to that. These days, it would be almost as bad as installing a random ActiveX plugin because "yuo nede soopr codeck to gets the pr0nzes!"

 

[ImpulsE69]

No. It's pretty much gone. You're seeing where these sites still abuse the fact that you still have it.
"

See, I don't understand where you are getting this. I have it disabled by default. It is definitely required. I'm not just making this up, I've had it uninstalled before and it drove me nuts with half the stuff not working. Guess I can try it again.

Also, you working at an ISP actually is a relief, because I was really wondering why you'd use it that often

 

[Mem]

Vivaldi is getting there but it still has very little interface arrangement options, and lacks a few simple functionality's that annoy me. Can't right-click edit bookmarks on the bar for example. I remember you used to not be able to drag tabs off to make a separate window or drag bookmarks into folders on the bar, but they added those finally.

It's also more of a resource hog than palemoon or slimjet so I can't use it on my aging work laptop.
Currently my main non-firefox based browser is Slimjet. It's a faster chrome clone with a nice built in youtube video downloader that I wish I could get on other browsers

But what has kept me on firefox and it's forks for so long is simple customization, especially with the interface. Options that don't require add-ons, all in about:config. With chrome(and clones) you have to install an addon just to stop GIFs from autoplaying.

Remember Vivaldi is only one year old since version 1, so it has come a long way in just one year, like most browsers it takes time to add all new features and improve performance, a bit ironic since it's only one year old but still a lot more stable (stability wise) then Firefox which is an ancient browser compared to Vivaldi.

 

[coffeemonster]

Remember Vivaldi is only one year old since version 1, so it has come a long way in just one year, like most browsers it takes time to add all new features and improve performance, a bit ironic since it's only one year old but still a lot more stable (stability wise) then Firefox which is an ancient browser compared to Vivaldi.

don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see Vivaldi blossom.

I haven't really had stability problems with firefox in years though. And when I did it was either outdated drivers or addon related.

 

[mindless1]

It's almost comical that every time I let firefox update itself, I worry more and more what they'll screw up next. Guess I'll have to start including Firefox program folder and user profile in my regular docs backups.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I'd hate to see FF go away but I do feel it needs a HUGE revamp, maybe even a rewrite. It's gotten so bloated and cpu and memory intensive, they could do better. Also they need to do something no other browser is doing and concentrate on privacy, have it built by design so it blocks all the crap sites do to track you. Don't allow sites to read other domains' cookies, or read what's in your other tabs, etc... Lot of stuff like that they could build right in.

What keeps me on FF is the extensions and fact that it's stand alone, ex: not tied to the cloud. Chrome and all the various derivatives are Google based and by default tied to the cloud, yeah you can turn that stuff off, but it wants to rely on it and is designed that way. I hate that crap and don't want anything to do with it. It's also not very configurable compared to Firefox. Lot of tweaks and such you can do in about:config for various things from security, privacy, etc for example. I sometimes switch to chromium and always find myself going back to Firefox. Firefox has lot of interesting development stuff too, like the inspector or the command line that has stuff such as letting you take a screenshot of an entire page.