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Fire - not explosives - brought 7 WTC down on 9/11, says report

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event8horizon

Senior member
Nov 15, 2007
674
0
0
beau-
as for those mossad agents that got caught celebrating with the towers burning in the background, there is something called compartmentalizaiton. one guy failed a lie dectector. wouldnt u like to see what questions were asked. wouldnt u like to see that video they made. aslo from a wayne madison article (ex nsa) :
Asked about the Israelis in the van being present at Liberty State Park at the time of the first World Trade Center impact, one East Rutherford officer responded, ?sure they were there.?[14] Another confidential source told the Bergen County Record, ?There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted . . . It looked like they?re hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park.?[15] According to several Weehawken neighbors of the Urban Moving Systems warehouse, the FBI, upon searching the the warehouse, discovered fertilizer, other chemicals for making explosives, pipes, caps, and traces of anthrax. After anthrax was discovered, investigators wearing hazardous material suits went through the warehouse.

http://www.wbpnet.org/Research...sraelmovingcompany.pdf

u really need to read up one all the israeli activity to get the a bigger picture. try out that other 911 thread for that.
 

event8horizon

Senior member
Nov 15, 2007
674
0
0
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Ns1
n/m, pointless. like arguing against a wall.
I think deep down the 9/11 truthers know they are full of shit
i guess its either that or our gov is full of shit.......how many times has the bush admin lied!!!!!!!

 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,385
1,517
126
Originally posted by: event8horizon
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Ns1
n/m, pointless. like arguing against a wall.
I think deep down the 9/11 truthers know they are full of shit
i guess its either that or our gov is full of shit.......how many times has the bush admin lied!!!!!!!
And how many times have truthers pulled bullshit theories out of their ass?

see sig.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: event8horizon
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: event8horizon
why attack secure computer rooms?? if there is foreknowledge, one could prep the area.
here is where the whole "direct contact with steel" is-
There appears to be a remarkable correlation between the floors upgraded for fireproofing in the WTC towers, in the years preceding 9/11/01, and the floors of impact, fire and failure. The fireproofing upgrades would have allowed for shutdown of the affected floors, and the exposure of the floor assemblies and the columns for a significant period of time.
as for the batteries, it would be a good way to sneak some thermite in since they never actually turned them on. this is all hypothetical. im awaiting dr jones paper on this.
as for why they would target a secure computer room, look into ptech software and Dov Zakheim + 911. if there is foreknowledge, one can plan.
Comments like these are what make conspiracy theorists look really dumb. The fireproofing upgrade began in 1999 and went through 2000. So now you're not only involving the Bush admin, but many people in the Clinton admin would have to have been complicit in this as well? Do tell.

btw, I hope you know that the pieces of "super nano thermite" that Jones is trying to pass off is actually nothing more than an anti-corrosion paint that was commonly used on the beams in the twin towers. It was a red oxide zinc chromate primer. How about bothering to ask why Jones blows off testing the other side of his "thermite" chip? For someone who is supposed to be asking questions you sure don't seem to be to eager to ask questions of anything that questions your conspiracy. Neither does Jones. In fact, he flat out ignores anything that doesn't jibe with his beliefs and when confronted with evidence that is contrary, he changes his story. He's done it so many times it's not even funny. But that's always the way it has been with the truthers. More evidence of their confirmation bias.
bush admin or clinton admin???? i think this statement made in the cemetary pretty much sums it up.
What the observer of these happenings heard beneath him after the normal niceties were exchanged between the three men alarmed him. The man who arrived in the Town Car said, ?The Americans will learn what it is to live with terrorists after the planes hit the twins in September.? One of the men that had been leaning against the retaining wall expressed concerns regarding whether the upcoming presidential election (November 2000) between Bush / Cheney and Gore / Lieberman could impact the plans. The man that arrived in the Town Car pacified the doubts by saying, ?Don?t worry, we have people in high places and no matter who gets elected, they will take care of everything.?

as for the anti corrosion paint from one of your debunking sites-
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/stevene.jones'thermitethermateclaims

"The levels of many of the elements are consistent with their presence in building materials, including chromium, magnesium, manganese, aluminum, and barium." Source (p. 709)
And the zinc? Galvanized zinc coating covered roughly 150 acres of corrugated steel floor decking in the towers. Red oxide zinc chromate primer paint was used on the structural steel, and many of the aircraft components were coated with zinc corrosion protection. Zinc also constitutes 10-40% of the content of brass, and a significant portion of bronze and nickel, and is used in many other construction and mechanical applications.

they are talking about elements. this "red chip" is a product of many elements that has the same chemical signature as thermite. i didnt see that it contained any zinc chromate either???
and the "grey" side, he thinks it may be plastic. he sent samples off to different labs for analysis so we will see.
More of your "Some guy claimed he heard..." crap? When will you learn that is not evidence? Sheesh, I can show you where people claim to have seen aliens too. Shall I use that as evidence that aliens were behind 9/11? Seems as valid as any of this lame baloney that you constantly trot out.

He thinks it may be plastic? And all we heard was Jones claim that this "chip," for which he cannot prove any provenance or chain of custody, allegedly has the same chemical signature as thermite. Yet when he put up the comparison slides it clearly did not have the same chemical signature. The percentages DO make a difference and he seems to ignore a few chemicals that were present in one and not the other. Then he brings this information out before even testing the other side of this bi-layered compound? What kind of shoddy scientific investigation is that? If you swallow that line I've got a bridge to sell you. Of course, you've consistently shown that you will readily believe want you want to believe with no real scientific verification or validation, but for anything you don't want to believe you demand in-depth analysis. Again, you have severe confirmation bias. You're so bloated from drinking Jones's kool-aid it's not even funny.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
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Originally posted by: event8horizon
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
There is the original 9/11 thread that you can put all your reviewed theories in.

This thread was supposed to be about new stuff; Everything you have presented to argue against the NIST report seems to be scientifically refuted multiple times or is based on people supposing without qualifications or true knowledge.

Everytime you put forwrd a theory and it gets shot down; you jump to another tangent.

Are you going to provide anything new to justify this thread being open.

If not this thread will be locked down on Monday.


Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
they still havent debunked these "red chips" that are the same makeup of thermite. and the spheres he found with the same characteristics. coincidence??? i doubt it.
http://video.google.com/videop...d=-4186920967571123147
It hasn't been proven that it's thermite in the first place. There's nothing to debunk.

or this metal they claim is aluminum when one can plainly see a hole towards the end that looks bright yellow. nist/fema sure hasnt had a good explanation for that nor the scientific experiments to turn aluminum into something that looks like that
http://video.google.com/videop...ompilation&vt=lf&hl=en
It's already been explained to you previously. Like most things that have already been explained to you, you ignore it.

or this engineers take on a piece of steel from wtc 7 that he thinks vaporized first then buckled. read the context. beau will deny it. but the contex says it all.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F931A35753C1A9679C8B63
One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized.
And? So? That proves what, exactly, in regard to truther claims?

Nothing so far as I can see. What does sulfuric acid do to steel? Wasn't there plenty of sulfuric acid found at GZ? When will you learn that trying to throw cold water on the "official story" doesn't prove your claims. If you want to prove your claims you actually have to provide some proof instead of merely trying to muddy the waters. You are using the same tactics creationists use to attempt to discredit evolution.

Less clear was whether the beam had been charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble, or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's collapse, which would provide a more telling clue.

The answer lay in the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion had buckled outward.

''This tells me it buckled while it was attached to the column,'' not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, ''It had burned first, then buckled.''
No shit? A beam got heated by fire, lost a good portion of it's structural strength, and then buckled? Again, what does that prove in regard to your theory? Nothing, so far as I can see.
 

KAZANI

Senior member
Sep 10, 2006
527
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: KAZANI
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
No, he didn't say that. He said" "I know of nobody..." iow, he was not aware of anyone making such a claim. Nor were these "bowls" of molten steel ever produced. They wouldn't have just disappeared or vaporized. That alleged "molten steel" would have solidified and would have been discovered during the clean-up. Nothing of the sort was ever produced. It's sure wasn't your "meteorite" which is nothing more than a chunk of a few floors of deris compressed together.
Here we go again with those wording acrobatics...So, everyone else knew about the "molten steel" reports except Gross, who was leading the NIST investigation? :confused: I'm really trying to feel comfortable with that, but I can't.
Everyone else knew? Surely you can prove that? Surely you can prove the Gross knew as well and was trying to conceal the information in order to keep the vast 9/11 government conspiracy, of which he and thousands of others were part and parcel of, all secure and hidden?

:roll:

I wonder if you guys ever think through some of the crap you toss out there? It sure doesn't seem so.
Your little wordplays are getting old. Here is a video that I base my "Everyone knew" claim, about which you get so anal: WTC High Temperatures & Molten Steel

More reports:
To some, it was an environmental health disaster from the very first. ?Standing down there, with your eyes closed,? says Ron Burger, a public health advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who arrived in New York to help September 11th but didn?t arrive to the Ground Zero the site until the night of September 12th, ?it could have been a tornado or an avalanche or a volcano.? A veteran of disasters from the Mississippi floods Mt. St. Helens, Burger said it reminded him most of the volcano, if he forgot he was in downtown Manhattan. ?Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helen?s and the thousands who fled that disaster,? he said.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.neha.org/9-11%20report/index-The.html">National Environmental
Health Association: The scene at Ground Zero</a>
As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.seau.org/SEAUNews-2001-10.pdf">The Newsletter of the Structural Engineers Association of Utah
Volume VI- Issue II October 2001</a>
Smoke constantly poured from the peaks. One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots.

National Guard Magazine, 12/2001
Even more reports at History Commons


I think it is safe to assume that anyone working at the rubble clearance at some point must have either stumbled upon "molten steel" himself or heard others discussing about it. How Gross, being a leading NIST investigator, constantly scouring the site, interviewing lots people, never got a whiff of those reports himself is beyond logic.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: KAZANI
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: KAZANI
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
No, he didn't say that. He said" "I know of nobody..." iow, he was not aware of anyone making such a claim. Nor were these "bowls" of molten steel ever produced. They wouldn't have just disappeared or vaporized. That alleged "molten steel" would have solidified and would have been discovered during the clean-up. Nothing of the sort was ever produced. It's sure wasn't your "meteorite" which is nothing more than a chunk of a few floors of deris compressed together.
Here we go again with those wording acrobatics...So, everyone else knew about the "molten steel" reports except Gross, who was leading the NIST investigation? :confused: I'm really trying to feel comfortable with that, but I can't.
Everyone else knew? Surely you can prove that? Surely you can prove the Gross knew as well and was trying to conceal the information in order to keep the vast 9/11 government conspiracy, of which he and thousands of others were part and parcel of, all secure and hidden?

:roll:

I wonder if you guys ever think through some of the crap you toss out there? It sure doesn't seem so.
Your little wordplays are getting old. Here is a video that I base my "Everyone knew" claim, about which you get so anal: WTC High Temperatures & Molten Steel

More reports:
To some, it was an environmental health disaster from the very first. ?Standing down there, with your eyes closed,? says Ron Burger, a public health advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who arrived in New York to help September 11th but didn?t arrive to the Ground Zero the site until the night of September 12th, ?it could have been a tornado or an avalanche or a volcano.? A veteran of disasters from the Mississippi floods Mt. St. Helens, Burger said it reminded him most of the volcano, if he forgot he was in downtown Manhattan. ?Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helen?s and the thousands who fled that disaster,? he said.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.neha.org/9-11%20report/index-The.html">National Environmental
Health Association: The scene at Ground Zero</a>
As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.seau.org/SEAUNews-2001-10.pdf">The Newsletter of the Structural Engineers Association of Utah
Volume VI- Issue II October 2001</a>
Smoke constantly poured from the peaks. One fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots.

National Guard Magazine, 12/2001
Even more reports at History Commons


I think it is safe to assume that anyone working at the rubble clearance at some point must have either stumbled upon "molten steel" himself or heard others discussing about it. How Gross, being a leading NIST investigator, constantly scouring the site, interviewing lots people, never got a whiff of those reports himself is beyond logic.
The only thing it's safe to assume is that some people stumbled upon what they believed to be, and called, molten steel. What they saw was some kind of molten metal, and considering the amount of metal in the debris that could be in a molten state, it's highly likely that plenty of people came across molten metal. However, people claiming it was "steel" does not make it so.

As far as Gross, don't be ridiculous. "Everybody" to you means your fellow truthers who assume that everyone else should know what non-experts on metals claimed they saw. I doubt Gross spends his days cruising YouTube or truther websites to gather his evidence.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: event8horizon
beau-
as for those mossad agents that got caught celebrating with the towers burning in the background, there is something called compartmentalizaiton. one guy failed a lie dectector. wouldnt u like to see what questions were asked. wouldnt u like to see that video they made. aslo from a wayne madison article (ex nsa) :
Asked about the Israelis in the van being present at Liberty State Park at the time of the first World Trade Center impact, one East Rutherford officer responded, ?sure they were there.?[14] Another confidential source told the Bergen County Record, ?There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted . . . It looked like they?re hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park.?[15] According to several Weehawken neighbors of the Urban Moving Systems warehouse, the FBI, upon searching the the warehouse, discovered fertilizer, other chemicals for making explosives, pipes, caps, and traces of anthrax. After anthrax was discovered, investigators wearing hazardous material suits went through the warehouse.

http://www.wbpnet.org/Research...sraelmovingcompany.pdf

u really need to read up one all the israeli activity to get the a bigger picture. try out that other 911 thread for that.
I had a huge response typed to this post, but I realized it's a waste of energy.

You brazenly take things out of context, ignore reality, and twist whatever facts you can stumble across to fit your story.

The "Israeli Art Students" were nothing but a bunch of scammers, who were betrayed by the Israeli government to the DEA. They had been tracked since Jan 2001, months before any terrorists arrived in the country. One of them admitted that their whole purpose was to scam people into giving them money for worthless art prints.

The coincidences about their proximity to the terrorists' housing is silly. The Israelis that lived in Hollywood did so two months before the terrorists arrived and fled after the DEA arrests. The other locations that "prove" the Israelis were stalking the terrorists fail to take into account that these individuals had about 200 known addresses.

Finally, the exact same story was repeated a year later in Canada. Unless Mossad is getting very sloppy, why would they use the same cover story, one which had a decent amount of press, to cover agents in Canada? It seems far more likely that these individuals were scamming people and not involved in any terrorism.


Your article is a sham and the author is a joke for referring to himself as a "journalist," considering he continues to misquote the Maria story, making it sound as though the Israelis were there before the attacks occurred, when in reality she can only testify to noticing them a while after she received the phone call from her neighbor.

Further, I thought thermite blew up the WTC? Not anthrax and fertilizer? Or was it the Hanukkah Zombie? Sorry, I can't keep your story straight because it changes every four seconds.

The author, though thorough in his citations leaves us guessing once again. He fails to cite any real sources, claiming "confidential" sources, interviews, etc. I'd LOVE to believe that he really conducted these interviews, but he has zero credibility. Just like all your other "sources." In fact, the wonderful story he concocted about the Israeli's is impossible to verify. It isn't even possible for us to establish any secondary or circumstantial evidence that would verify his claims. If anything, all the circumstantial evidence (and evidence we have about the actual attack) points to this guy being full of shit. So instead of pandering around with these crappy sources, why not lay out a case that attacks the foundation on which my defense rests -- that there is zero evidence for a controlled demolition of the WTC and, while experts across the field might disagree on methodology, they agree that planes brought the WTC down.
 

event8horizon

Senior member
Nov 15, 2007
674
0
0
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: event8horizon
beau-
as for those mossad agents that got caught celebrating with the towers burning in the background, there is something called compartmentalizaiton. one guy failed a lie dectector. wouldnt u like to see what questions were asked. wouldnt u like to see that video they made. aslo from a wayne madison article (ex nsa) :
Asked about the Israelis in the van being present at Liberty State Park at the time of the first World Trade Center impact, one East Rutherford officer responded, ?sure they were there.?[14] Another confidential source told the Bergen County Record, ?There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted . . . It looked like they?re hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park.?[15] According to several Weehawken neighbors of the Urban Moving Systems warehouse, the FBI, upon searching the the warehouse, discovered fertilizer, other chemicals for making explosives, pipes, caps, and traces of anthrax. After anthrax was discovered, investigators wearing hazardous material suits went through the warehouse.

http://www.wbpnet.org/Research...sraelmovingcompany.pdf

u really need to read up one all the israeli activity to get the a bigger picture. try out that other 911 thread for that.
I had a huge response typed to this post, but I realized it's a waste of energy.

You brazenly take things out of context, ignore reality, and twist whatever facts you can stumble across to fit your story.

The "Israeli Art Students" were nothing but a bunch of scammers, who were betrayed by the Israeli government to the DEA. They had been tracked since Jan 2001, months before any terrorists arrived in the country. One of them admitted that their whole purpose was to scam people into giving them money for worthless art prints.

The coincidences about their proximity to the terrorists' housing is silly. The Israelis that lived in Hollywood did so two months before the terrorists arrived and fled after the DEA arrests. The other locations that "prove" the Israelis were stalking the terrorists fail to take into account that these individuals had about 200 known addresses.

Finally, the exact same story was repeated a year later in Canada. Unless Mossad is getting very sloppy, why would they use the same cover story, one which had a decent amount of press, to cover agents in Canada? It seems far more likely that these individuals were scamming people and not involved in any terrorism.


Your article is a sham and the author is a joke for referring to himself as a "journalist," considering he continues to misquote the Maria story, making it sound as though the Israelis were there before the attacks occurred, when in reality she can only testify to noticing them a while after she received the phone call from her neighbor.

Further, I thought thermite blew up the WTC? Not anthrax and fertilizer? Or was it the Hanukkah Zombie? Sorry, I can't keep your story straight because it changes every four seconds.

The author, though thorough in his citations leaves us guessing once again. He fails to cite any real sources, claiming "confidential" sources, interviews, etc. I'd LOVE to believe that he really conducted these interviews, but he has zero credibility. Just like all your other "sources." In fact, the wonderful story he concocted about the Israeli's is impossible to verify. It isn't even possible for us to establish any secondary or circumstantial evidence that would verify his claims. If anything, all the circumstantial evidence (and evidence we have about the actual attack) points to this guy being full of shit. So instead of pandering around with these crappy sources, why not lay out a case that attacks the foundation on which my defense rests -- that there is zero evidence for a controlled demolition of the WTC and, while experts across the field might disagree on methodology, they agree that planes brought the WTC down.
i think u might have issues with the author because he is highly intelligent and an ex nsa employee. he probably sees things alittle diferently and he is a "truther". he knows bullshit when he sees it.

Madsen was a Senior Fellow of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.[1] He was a communications security analyst with the National Security Agency in the 1980s, and an intelligence officer in the US Navy. He has testified on numerous occasions before the US Congress.[citation needed]
Madsen edits the Wayne Madsen Report, which he describes as following in the tradition of Drew Pearson's and Jack Anderson's famous "Washington Merry-Go-Round" syndicated column and columns by I.F. Stone.
Madsen also hosts a radio show on the largely Internet-based radio station "We The People Radio Network" [2], broadcast every Tuesday from 7-9pm CST. Other hosts on the network include prominent members of the 9/11 Truth Movement including Alex Jones and Kevin Barrett.
His expertise has been sought for news programs the world over, some of which have been posted on youtube.

Involvement with 9/11 Truth
Madsen is a member of the 9/11 Truth Movement in that he subscribes to the opinion that elements within the Bush administration either let the September 11 attacks happen, or made them happen on purpose.

as for the israeli's living next to the hijackers, it wasnt just in florida. check out the end of this memo. they are clusted throughout the country where the hijackers were. this lawyer thought something was fishy too and mailed this to THE NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE THE HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE
http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/Me...lectCommitteesbold.pdf

look on pages 163-166
again think compartentalization and this only represents the ones they caught!!!
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: event8horizon
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: event8horizon
beau-
as for those mossad agents that got caught celebrating with the towers burning in the background, there is something called compartmentalizaiton. one guy failed a lie dectector. wouldnt u like to see what questions were asked. wouldnt u like to see that video they made. aslo from a wayne madison article (ex nsa) :
Asked about the Israelis in the van being present at Liberty State Park at the time of the first World Trade Center impact, one East Rutherford officer responded, ?sure they were there.?[14] Another confidential source told the Bergen County Record, ?There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted . . . It looked like they?re hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park.?[15] According to several Weehawken neighbors of the Urban Moving Systems warehouse, the FBI, upon searching the the warehouse, discovered fertilizer, other chemicals for making explosives, pipes, caps, and traces of anthrax. After anthrax was discovered, investigators wearing hazardous material suits went through the warehouse.

http://www.wbpnet.org/Research...sraelmovingcompany.pdf

u really need to read up one all the israeli activity to get the a bigger picture. try out that other 911 thread for that.
I had a huge response typed to this post, but I realized it's a waste of energy.

You brazenly take things out of context, ignore reality, and twist whatever facts you can stumble across to fit your story.

The "Israeli Art Students" were nothing but a bunch of scammers, who were betrayed by the Israeli government to the DEA. They had been tracked since Jan 2001, months before any terrorists arrived in the country. One of them admitted that their whole purpose was to scam people into giving them money for worthless art prints.

The coincidences about their proximity to the terrorists' housing is silly. The Israelis that lived in Hollywood did so two months before the terrorists arrived and fled after the DEA arrests. The other locations that "prove" the Israelis were stalking the terrorists fail to take into account that these individuals had about 200 known addresses.

Finally, the exact same story was repeated a year later in Canada. Unless Mossad is getting very sloppy, why would they use the same cover story, one which had a decent amount of press, to cover agents in Canada? It seems far more likely that these individuals were scamming people and not involved in any terrorism.


Your article is a sham and the author is a joke for referring to himself as a "journalist," considering he continues to misquote the Maria story, making it sound as though the Israelis were there before the attacks occurred, when in reality she can only testify to noticing them a while after she received the phone call from her neighbor.

Further, I thought thermite blew up the WTC? Not anthrax and fertilizer? Or was it the Hanukkah Zombie? Sorry, I can't keep your story straight because it changes every four seconds.

The author, though thorough in his citations leaves us guessing once again. He fails to cite any real sources, claiming "confidential" sources, interviews, etc. I'd LOVE to believe that he really conducted these interviews, but he has zero credibility. Just like all your other "sources." In fact, the wonderful story he concocted about the Israeli's is impossible to verify. It isn't even possible for us to establish any secondary or circumstantial evidence that would verify his claims. If anything, all the circumstantial evidence (and evidence we have about the actual attack) points to this guy being full of shit. So instead of pandering around with these crappy sources, why not lay out a case that attacks the foundation on which my defense rests -- that there is zero evidence for a controlled demolition of the WTC and, while experts across the field might disagree on methodology, they agree that planes brought the WTC down.
i think u might have issues with the author because he is highly intelligent and an ex nsa employee. he probably sees things alittle diferently and he is a "truther". he knows bullshit when he sees it.

Madsen was a Senior Fellow of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.[1] He was a communications security analyst with the National Security Agency in the 1980s, and an intelligence officer in the US Navy. He has testified on numerous occasions before the US Congress.[citation needed]
Madsen edits the Wayne Madsen Report, which he describes as following in the tradition of Drew Pearson's and Jack Anderson's famous "Washington Merry-Go-Round" syndicated column and columns by I.F. Stone.
Madsen also hosts a radio show on the largely Internet-based radio station "We The People Radio Network" [2], broadcast every Tuesday from 7-9pm CST. Other hosts on the network include prominent members of the 9/11 Truth Movement including Alex Jones and Kevin Barrett.
His expertise has been sought for news programs the world over, some of which have been posted on youtube.

Involvement with 9/11 Truth
Madsen is a member of the 9/11 Truth Movement in that he subscribes to the opinion that elements within the Bush administration either let the September 11 attacks happen, or made them happen on purpose.

as for the israeli's living next to the hijackers, it wasnt just in florida. check out the end of this memo. they are clusted throughout the country where the hijackers were. this lawyer thought something was fishy too and mailed this to THE NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE THE HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE
http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/Me...lectCommitteesbold.pdf

look on pages 163-166
again think compartentalization and this only represents the ones they caught!!!
No, I have issues with the author because he has no credibility and he can't provide sources for the meatier bits of his story. I don't care whether he was an NSA employee in the 1980s or a janitor, his story holds little ground because he provides no facts, no sources, and no true evidence besides what he claims to have seen or heard.

His credibility takes even further hits because he can't relate basic factual stories correctly. Take for example his Ashcroft story. John Ashcroft stopped riding commercial planes because of a threat to him as a person. This is documented and has nothing to do with Sept 11th. I'm not going to go through this 75 pages of crap to show you every single thing that is incorrect, but it is sufficient to say that Mr. Madsen provides no means of verify ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE within his "report" and that he makes gross factual errors that represent either a lack of integrity on his part or a lack of thoroughness, both of which are disturbing in a "report" like this.

Also, his "report" makes no mention of "thermite" or "thermate" or anything else that you've actually tried to say is part of the 9/11 conspiracy. There's no mention of the Fuji Bank, of thermite, or of anything else. When we place this "report" in context (with the other evidence we have) we see that there are hundreds of experts who agree on one point: that there is zero evidence for a controlled demolition of the WTC.

Finally, one last thought about Mr. Madsen. For all of his intelligence work, he seems very hung up on the fact that all of these young Israeli men were employed by the government as soldiers or intelligence personnel. I guess nobody informed him that every single Israeli is required to serve in the military and, therefore, any Israeli arrested in the United States might be a former paratrooper, intelligence officer, tank commander, or staff sergeant.

Mr. Madsen makes a lot of allegations and does so with spooky language and a dialogue that centers around the implicit assumption that there is a conspiracy to be uncovered within our government. Even some of his most damning quotes take information completely out of context and twist the reality of the situation.

If his contention is that somehow all this information adds up to a compelling case that the Israelis had foreknowledge of the WTC attacks or that they assisted in the attacks, that case doesn't emerge and he fails to address an absolutely critical question -- with Israel already embroiled in a long-term nasty conflict in which her only ally is the United States, why would the country either assist in attacking the US or would withhold information about the attack? If anything, providing the US government with information about the attacks would boost the likelihood that the US would improve funding increases to the Israeli intelligence network.

Also, if Mr. Madsen is so insistent on the government's desire to keep this Israeli thing under wraps, why has the government not pulled down his websites and his information like he accuses them of doing regarding ABC, NBC, and Fox News?

Again, Bob Woodward this man is not. He's a sham, just like all the other evidence you've posted here.
 

event8horizon

Senior member
Nov 15, 2007
674
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: event8horizon
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
There is the original 9/11 thread that you can put all your reviewed theories in.

This thread was supposed to be about new stuff; Everything you have presented to argue against the NIST report seems to be scientifically refuted multiple times or is based on people supposing without qualifications or true knowledge.

Everytime you put forwrd a theory and it gets shot down; you jump to another tangent.

Are you going to provide anything new to justify this thread being open.

If not this thread will be locked down on Monday.


Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
they still havent debunked these "red chips" that are the same makeup of thermite. and the spheres he found with the same characteristics. coincidence??? i doubt it.
http://video.google.com/videop...d=-4186920967571123147
It hasn't been proven that it's thermite in the first place. There's nothing to debunk.

or this metal they claim is aluminum when one can plainly see a hole towards the end that looks bright yellow. nist/fema sure hasnt had a good explanation for that nor the scientific experiments to turn aluminum into something that looks like that
http://video.google.com/videop...ompilation&vt=lf&hl=en
It's already been explained to you previously. Like most things that have already been explained to you, you ignore it.

or this engineers take on a piece of steel from wtc 7 that he thinks vaporized first then buckled. read the context. beau will deny it. but the contex says it all.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F931A35753C1A9679C8B63
One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized.
And? So? That proves what, exactly, in regard to truther claims?

Nothing so far as I can see. What does sulfuric acid do to steel? Wasn't there plenty of sulfuric acid found at GZ? When will you learn that trying to throw cold water on the "official story" doesn't prove your claims. If you want to prove your claims you actually have to provide some proof instead of merely trying to muddy the waters. You are using the same tactics creationists use to attempt to discredit evolution.

Less clear was whether the beam had been charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble, or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's collapse, which would provide a more telling clue.

The answer lay in the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion had buckled outward.

''This tells me it buckled while it was attached to the column,'' not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, ''It had burned first, then buckled.''
No shit? A beam got heated by fire, lost a good portion of it's structural strength, and then buckled? Again, what does that prove in regard to your theory? Nothing, so far as I can see.
since common courtsey is going to lock this tom-
its really just a matter of lack of scientific experiments that tlc presents for the aluminum pouring out of the building and the sulfur content in the wtc 7 fema sample.
1. the "red chips" have the same chemical signature as thermite. he sent samples to two different labs. dr jones is writing a paper right now. make what u want of that.

2. as tlc stated concerning the metal pouring out of the wtc "It's already been explained to you previously. Like most things that have already been explained to you, you ignore it."
authorities have said it is aluminum with some other office supplies mixed in. have they actually tried to produce alluminum to look like that?? not that i know of. other scientists think it is molten iron. just because a person of authority says it so, it aint always so. experiment!!!

3. concerning this steel-
One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized.
]Less clear was whether the beam had been charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble, or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's collapse, which would provide a more telling clue.

The answer lay in the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion had buckled outward.

''This tells me it buckled while it was attached to the column,'' not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, ''It had burned first, then buckled.''

**what this tells me is that when he mentioned "vaporized", he was linking that with the quote "''It had burned first, then buckled.'' and when he said "vaporized" he was talking about the steel flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, that had vaporized.
now dr barnett saw some steel that was "evaporated" from wtc 7 and later noted that that was the fema sample 1 that showed severe corrosion. now dr sisson comes out and says that severe corrosion is due to "slag" consisting of iron, sulfur, and oxygen.
if this steel looked the same as the fema sample 1 then i bet it showed the same characteristics. then that would mean that it got attacked with iron, sulfur, and oxygen while it was attached to the building. that would mean the nist is WRONG to disregard the molten metel as having happened after the fall. they also need to take into the consideration the molten metel might have contributed to the collapse. also this engineer was there 8 days after the event so that steel would have been on top of the pile. not deep in the rubble.

4. so dr greening "concluded" that the sulfur was from......
has greening come up with a piece of steel that resembles the wtc 7 sample 1 from the fema report?? has it been duplicated in other labs.
 

event8horizon

Senior member
Nov 15, 2007
674
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beau- did u check out this link. this is not from wayne madsen.
as for the israeli's living next to the hijackers, it wasnt just in florida. check out the end of this memo. they are clusted throughout the country where the hijackers were. this lawyer thought something was fishy too and mailed this to THE NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE THE HOUSE PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE
http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/Me...lectCommitteesbold.pdf

look on pages 163-166
again think compartentalization and this only represents the ones they caught!!
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
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Originally posted by: event8horizon
since common courtsey is going to lock this tom-
its really just a matter of lack of scientific experiments that tlc presents for the aluminum pouring out of the building and the sulfur content in the wtc 7 fema sample.
1. the "red chips" have the same chemical signature as thermite. he sent samples to two different labs. dr jones is writing a paper right now. make what u want of that.
No they don't. Steven Jones, the disgraced ex-professor who is a known truther and distorter of facts claims they have the same signature. Jones claiming them to have the same chemical signature and those chips actually being thermite, if he can even show they came from GZ in the first place, are two completely different things.

2. as tlc stated concerning the metal pouring out of the wtc "It's already been explained to you previously. Like most things that have already been explained to you, you ignore it."
authorities have said it is aluminum with some other office supplies mixed in. have they actually tried to produce alluminum to look like that?? not that i know of. other scientists think it is molten iron. just because a person of authority says it so, it aint always so. experiment!!!
Actually, they said it was aluminum along with other organic materials. And at least you finally recognize that just because a person of authority says something, it doesn't make it so. You should apply that to your own beliefs more often. The thing is, NIST and FEMA are a large number of authorities that basically agree. You have Steven Jones and claims from people who aren't authorities. So I think I'll believe NIST and FEMA instead of the people that you give credence to.

3. concerning this steel-
One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized.
]Less clear was whether the beam had been charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble, or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's collapse, which would provide a more telling clue.

The answer lay in the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion had buckled outward.

''This tells me it buckled while it was attached to the column,'' not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, ''It had burned first, then buckled.''

**what this tells me is that when he mentioned "vaporized", he was linking that with the quote "''It had burned first, then buckled.'' and when he said "vaporized" he was talking about the steel flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, that had vaporized.
now dr barnett saw some steel that was "evaporated" from wtc 7 and later noted that that was the fema sample 1 that showed severe corrosion. now dr sisson comes out and says that severe corrosion is due to "slag" consisting of iron, sulfur, and oxygen.
if this steel looked the same as the fema sample 1 then i bet it showed the same characteristics. then that would mean that it got attacked with iron, sulfur, and oxygen while it was attached to the building. that would mean the nist is WRONG to disregard the molten metel as having happened after the fall. they also need to take into the consideration the molten metel might have contributed to the collapse. also this engineer was there 8 days after the event so that steel would have been on top of the pile. not deep in the rubble.
Nice non answer. When you can learn to actually articulate what the hell you're trying to claim you might be able to make a point. All we see you do is copy & paste crap that's supposed to sound authoritative but ends up being meaningless because you can't even bother to interpret what the hell it's supposed to mean. And, trust me, the crap you're quoting is meaningless. It doesn't support your story and you can't even recognize that fact.

4. so dr greening "concluded" that the sulfur was from......
has greening come up with a piece of steel that resembles the wtc 7 sample 1 from the fema report?? has it been duplicated in other labs.
I doubt Greening has the money to duplicate the twin towers and crash commercial jets into them to duplicate the conditions. However, he has explained where the chemicals came from and how it easily could have happened without any thermite being involved. However, you'll continue to ignore Occam's Razor because you've made it plain that you're not searching for truth, you searching for validation of your ingrained beliefs. That means you're biased and that precludes you from making any unbiased determination in the first place. So let's stop pretending that you're looking for any sort of truth but your own interpretation of the truth.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Locked down - hearsay does not cut it.

Take it over to the 9/11 thread which is reserved for rehashing non-evidence.


Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
 

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