FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) Anyone Doing This?

[Mai72]

https://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-basics-of-fire-financial-independence-and-early-re-1820129768

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBeatTheBush

We are socially conditioned to think retiring at 60 is the norm. You work at a job that you probably hate for the next 40 years, and then you can start enjoying life in your golden years. Well from what I've seen the golden years are complete bullshit. It's a myth. The golden years normally are filled with doctor visits. Your body is slowly deteroiting. Joint pain. Your friends start dying. Hell, you might even be dead by the time you're 60. My mom passed away quickly at 64. There are too many things that could go wrong when you hit 60. And, you're on the backend of your life. I'm not saying hitting 60 is the end, but let's get real. It's definitely a turning point to old age and dying. There are exceptions though. My dad is 74, and he still sells ice cream on the beach. He walks thousands of miles daily in the heat so he can do his job. He loves it though, and it keeps him in shape.

There is another way though. Why not have the option to retire at 30. Or, maybe 35. You're stilll in your prime physically. You still have life! You can travel to foreign countries, and it's not a big deal. No health issues. You can do the things that are important and you can pursue what is meaningful to you. While you're still young. One life. In my case, I started late. If I had to do it again I would had started at 20. But, I didn't have You Tube. So, I was socially conditioned to think that retiring at 60 or 65 is normal. IMo, it's not normal. So, I've gone on this journey to retire in 5-10 years.

*I make about $72k a year before taxes.
*I'm continually finding ways to increase income. I sell on ebay. I'll be doing Amazon this year.
*I set money goals, and review my financial standing every Sunday.
*I prep my meals on Sunday, and cost are normally $70 a week.
*I save about 80% of my income. Yes, 80%.
*I drive a $2k used car. I would walk if I could but I can't in my area.
*I'm learing about investing, and have started investing in passive income.
*My rent is $700 a month. I will not buy a home, because I don't want to tie up my money.
*My end goal is to purchase a condo in Vietnam or Thailand. I will live there until I die. Can't beat the cost of living in SE Asia.
*My end goal is to be retired at 50. Maybe even sooner, Depends on how hard I want to push myself.

Society doesn't teach us about money. We are conditioned to spend because that is what they want. To keep you financially illiterate. To keep you poor. 95% of the crap that you buy you don't need. You are going to die, and those things are going to disappear anyway. Detach from your belongings and IMO that is where you'll find happiness.

Graham was able to find financial independence at 28.

 

[lxskllr]

I expect to die with my boots on. For the most part, I don't mind what I'm doing, and when I "retire", I'll get time to try things I'd really like to do. Chasing money's for losers.

 

[brianmanahan]

yep, been saving for ER for about 7 years

the goal is to be able to retire in 2028 in my mid-40s

i ain't gonna live super-cheap though. i buy decent cars every 10 years, live in a nice apartment, eat out a couple times a week, go on a couple nice vacations each year, and am not going to move to another country. otherwise i could be retired now.

 

[IronWing]

<psst> healthcare.

 

[brianmanahan]

<psst> healthcare.

that's the big unknown. i currently expect to budget about 25$k a year for it, and that's just me living alone by myself.

but who knows what'll happen in 10-15 years. there's a chance we could end up with something like single payer, or (more likely) get some reform in the system that helps lower costs.

if the worst case happens and healthcare is unaffordable without a job, i wait until mid-50s to retire early from my employer, which provides 10 years of gap healthcare at their group rate to early retirees until medicare kicks in.

 

[lxskllr]

Capitalism really falls apart with something like healthcare. It's virtually unlimited demand, with a limited supply(and a government granted monopoly on top of it). If I developed a drug in my bathroom that was guaranteed to add ten years to your life, what would that be worth? $10k? A walmart worker could afford that. Might take a small loan, but it's manageable. That guy over there said he'll give me $500k. Is that the market value now? That puts it out of reach for *a lot* of people. I bet if I sat on it a bit, I could get enough people to pay $1m+, and I'd make more money than settling for a measly $500k. Afterall, my valuable time was spent in research and development, and I should be paid as much as possible. Fuck walmart workers anyway, amiright??

 

[brianmanahan]

the other possibility for healthcare is moving to another country like mai mentioned, where you can get really good healthcare for really cheap.

someone here has also talked about just traveling to one of those countries for healthcare, i think maybe ponyo? IIRC they got like 30-40$k worth of procedures done there for a couple grand.

 

[ponyo]

Just live your life. It's nice to have goals but don't let that overtake everything and consume you. If you need "retirement" to be happy, then something is wrong with you. Work and take vacations. It's about balance. It's not like we're living in Korea and Japan where they work you to death. Most people get 3-4 weeks a year vacation time. Use it and do what you enjoy. I could retire in SE Asia or Central/South America right now but why? I get best of both worlds by staying in the US. Every time I travel, I'm reminded how freaking lucky I am to live in the USA and how much better we have it here.

I save plenty of money but I don't obsess over it. If I cared only about early retirement, I would make my wife get a job. But she has never worked since she married me so I guess she's "retired." Live your life, spend money and enjoy yourself, and money will come. I think trying to save 80% and being miser is no better than someone who saves 0% and spends every penny enjoying themselves. It might actually be worse since the 100% spender might have fewer regrets when they die.

Ignore the Youtubers and self-help gurus. Their only motivation is helping themselves financially at your expense. Watching and following that trash only rots your brain.

 

[purbeast0]

Just live your life. It's nice to have goals but don't let that overtake everything and consume you. If you need "retirement" to be happy, then something is wrong with you. Work and take vacations. It's about balance. It's not like we're living in Korea and Japan where they work you to death. Most people get 3-4 weeks a year vacation time. Use it and do what you enjoy. I could retire in SE Asia or Central/South America right now but why? I get best of both worlds by staying in the US. Every time I travel, I'm reminded how freaking lucky I am to live in the USA and how much better we have it here.

I save plenty of money but I don't obsess over it. If I cared only about early retirement, I would make my wife get a job. But she has never worked since she married me so I guess she's "retired." Live your life, spend money and enjoy yourself, and money will come. I think trying to save 80% and being miser is no better than someone who saves 0% and spends every penny enjoying themselves. It might actually be worse since the 100% spender might have fewer regrets when they die.

Ignore the Youtubers and self-help gurus. Their only motivation is helping themselves financially at your expense. Watching and following that trash only rots your brain.

As we've discussed many times on this forum before, the USA is trained to think that working 50+ hours a week and getting paid for 40 hours is some sort of badge of honor, when in reality it's people being dumb as shit and working for free. People brag about working so much like it's something to be proud of. To me, it just means you are dumb working for free.

People in the USA are also trained to think that companies are doing a favor for people when hiring them, but in actuality, you are doing them a favor by working for the company. Once I changed my mindset that the company I work for is lucky to have me work for them, my salary increased a lot and my outlook on my career and skills also changed a lot.

Many people in the USA are also conditioned to just work all year and then have 1 vacation a year I know I grew up like that where in the summer we took a trip to the beach where we'd either drive to NC or 3 hours to the coast of MD to the beach. That's just how it was.

As I've gotten older and am now in my own career, my wife and I make a priority to vacation 4-5 times a year. Sure not everyone can do it financially like we do, but most people could afford "getaways" just to recharge the batteries. For some reason though our society just isn't that way.

Europe has it right where 7 weeks is the norm for vacation time. They also have paternal leave as a normal practice. That is such a foreign concept in the USA but it's starting to change slowly in that aspect too.

 

[brianmanahan]

Just live your life. It's nice to have goals but don't let that overtake everything and consume you.

i like the phrase and post on the financialindependence subreddit - "build the life you want, then save for it". it was posted by some guy who was miserable and lost his girlfriend because he lived like a cheapskate for years, spending his spare time on overtime and "side hustles" to save extra money and getting his girlfriend to do the same.

basically figure out how you want to live, then worry about saving the money to support that lifestyle. not that cutting unnecessary expenses and earning more is bad, but if cutting expenses to the bare minimum and making money constantly becomes the top priority, it is unhealthy.

after seeing that post i actually let myself spend more on certain things that i wanted. if i have to work an extra year or two to retire, so be it.

 

[Zeze]

I say to my wife if we didn't have 2 kids, we'd be buying a new property every 2 years.

 

[snoopy7548]

I've been on the FIRE path for maybe four years now, but I've always put money towards retirement and been relatively frugal. It started with a Mr. Money Mustache article (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/) and now I'm pretty much on autopilot saving ~55% of my income. I still indulge and I don't deprive myself of anything.

I was in the mindset of saving as much as possible for a little while but I learned quickly that money comes and goes and it's just not worth it to limit yourself. If your needs are met, it's OK to spend money on things you want and occasionally be frivolous.

My goal is to quit the 9-5 (or, in my case, ~7-5) grind by the time I'm 45. I love my job and my co-workers, my commute is short, and I'm paid well with good benefits, but dedicating five days a week to a job isn't something I plan on wasting nearly my entire life on. Maybe when I'm at the point of FIRE, I'll be able to negotiate a reduced working schedule for a cut in salary; IMO, the largest advantage of having this mindset is to give yourself options. Money doesn't buy happiness, but it certainly buys you options. Your average worker could never dream of ever being able to negotiate four or three day work weeks with a full-time job.

By nature, I'm a night owl. If it were up to me, I'd work in the evenings and rest/play during the day. The normal work week and routine with 20 days of PTO simply doesn't suit me.

I've considered the cost of healthcare, but I should qualify for subsidies as my expenses, even with my house, are fairly low - I won't need to draw a large income from my retirement accounts. I'm hopeful that by the time I retire, we'll have or may be on the path to single-payer. A lot can happen over a decade, though I'm not counting on it by any means, nor am I counting on Social Security.

What I'll most likely end up doing is part-time work for enough extra money to supplement my retirement income and help with healthcare costs. I can spend all the extra time I have volunteering locally and dedicating myself to my hobbies, some of which may turn into income. I tend to get bored of things, so being able to job hop without caring about money and providing for myself would be cool, and not spending 8-10 hours a day, five days a week, doing the same type of work would be even cooler.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I know a guy who plans to retire at 50. He is super cheap and when he and his wife actually go on vacations, they’re cheap and crappy vacations. They don’t eat at nice restaurants. I could keep going, but you get the picture.

I’d like to retire early, but I’m not going to sacrifice a quality life now in hopes of being able to “live it up” later. Planning for the future, IMO, also has to take into account that you may not have that future or may have issues preventing your planned future from happening, so you have to live in the present too. For one, you may never make it to retirement - you may die in an accident, of a terminal illness, etc. Secondly, if you’re still in relatively good shape, don’t hate your job, and make decent money, why not keep working and piling up more and more savings? Many studies show that retiring and having no job results in depression and early death for many people.

The guy I mentioned earlier who claims he will retire at 50 - I guarantee that when 50 rolls around and he retires, he will be an even bigger cheapass and his wife will bitch about him to my wife even more.

 

[lxskllr]

The guy I mentioned earlier who claims he will retire at 50 - I guarantee that when 50 rolls around and he retires, he will be an even bigger cheapass and his wife will bitch about him to my wife even more.

It's easy to get on the treadmill, and never get off. I've had to be exceptionally frugal out of necessity; even more so than my general nature provides. I still catch myself being needlessly cheap, and giving more attention to minor cost differences than I need to. If you aren't careful, hoarding money becomes the end game, and not simply a tool to reach the end.

 

[brianmanahan]

The guy I mentioned earlier who claims he will retire at 50 - I guarantee that when 50 rolls around and he retires, he will be an even bigger cheapass and his wife will bitch about him to my wife even more.

this is kind of a big reason i don't have an SO. i don't think they'll be too many people who want to live this way, so i won't risk subjecting anyone else to it.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

It's easy to get on the treadmill, and never get off. I've had to be exceptionally frugal out of necessity; even more so than my general nature provides. I still catch myself being needlessly cheap, and giving more attention to minor cost differences than I need to. If you aren't careful, hoarding money becomes the end game, and not simply a tool to reach the end.

That's the problem with "trickle down." The vast majority of the wealthy in America aren't innovators or creators they're hoarders. Everyone focuses on debt rather than investment. Investing in financial instruments creates wealth but, doesn't create growth. Being small minded almost seems like a requirement these days for being wealthy.

 

[KB]

Its been my plan to FIRE for many years, but it proving more difficult than expected. Housing costs were much higher than expected and savings interest rates have been so low. Healthcare will be the biggest wildcard, so I expect if I do FIRE it will be in low cost country like Costa Rica or Peru.

 

[repoman0]

I used to want to retire early really badly, but it doesn't sound appealing to me anymore. I went out and got an awesome job instead at a research institution in my area. We build experimental satellites, radar and laser systems, robotics/AI etc and are constantly publishing in world class journals. It's a non-profit with excellent benefits and a pension but average pay for my profession -- but in return I never work more than 40 hrs/week. I think I'll be happier with this keeping my mind sharp and active than I would be sitting around in retirement. Then again I'm 29 so my mind could change if I get old and lazy.

No desire to leave New England either and Boston in particular so I'll be working for a long time to pay for the million dollars it costs to have a nice home here. I have a condo (half of an old early 20th century house) now but will inevitably want a single family place.

 

[local]

With the exception of 401k I use my money now, didn't really have a choice the last few years anyway. I could be hit by a bus and die on my way to work tomorrow or fall off a boat dock and die like my boss did last year. I don't expect SS to exist by the time I retire and fully expect to work until at least 70 or so. I know someone thinking they will have to work for that long should suck but I really don't mind. I enjoy what I do, I'm into the management side of a relatively automation safe industry and keep making more money every year. If I assume I will have to work forever I will not be disappointed if I cannot meet some time frame that I had to work on for decades. Besides, I still fully intend to live forever so there is no set amount of money I need for retirement.

 

[Red Squirrel]

The issue is all the reoccurring costs like bills. Need constant cash flow as those costs go up by around 10% each year. When you retire late in life you have enough money stashed to cover those bills until you die, but if you retire early you need a much larger stash or passive income. For myself I figured I need around 3 million if I wanted to stay put and I would make it to 100.

Lot of these frugal living live styles involve living in a tiny apartment and having absolutely zero "fun" money. It sounds too depressing. I worked too hard in school to do that. Minute I got a job my main goal was to get a house and I did. I feel once you hit the point where you work it's kinda like semi retirement, as you are done school. School is probably the most stressful part of life. Any other sources of stress after that you have more control over.

If I want to retire early, what I really need to do is find a source of passive income, like maybe writing a mobile game or something. Mobile seems to be the big thing now, I really need to sit down and learn it. Even simple games like Candy Crush and Flappy Bird make millions, it's crazy. Even if I do something that dies out, if I made a few million I could look at retiring earlier, though I would not feel comfortable retiring early without having actual cash flow. Any amount of money is going to deplete at some point so have to be really frugal even with a few mil in the bank.

My retirement plan, whether I retire early or not, is to buy some off grid land in a place that has low taxes but still close enough to here, and build a off grid cabin. Would be cheaper to live, and super high quality of life. So it's a win win. I'd still have a few reoccurring costs like internet and groceries and other things that I choose not to be 100% self sufficient on, but things like gas, hydro, etc I'd be self sufficient. Utilities and municipal taxes are the highest costs of living so if I can eliminate or at least greatly reduce those then I'll be golden.

With all that said, if I did retire early I would want to find myself something to do so I don't become a hermit. Maybe volunteer once or twice a week at the animal shelter or something like that.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

the other possibility for healthcare is moving to another country like mai mentioned, where you can get really good healthcare for really cheap.

someone here has also talked about just traveling to one of those countries for healthcare, i think maybe ponyo? IIRC they got like 30-40$k worth of procedures done there for a couple grand.

Don't you uhh... Kinda have to be a citizen of those countries? In plenty of countries, as much as we have ignorant individuals that think immigration is some magical right - there are plenty of places that don't necessarily want you.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

i like the phrase and post on the financialindependence subreddit - "build the life you want, then save for it". it was posted by some guy who was miserable and lost his girlfriend because he lived like a cheapskate for years, spending his spare time on overtime and "side hustles" to save extra money and getting his girlfriend to do the same.

basically figure out how you want to live, then worry about saving the money to support that lifestyle. not that cutting unnecessary expenses and earning more is bad, but if cutting expenses to the bare minimum and making money constantly becomes the top priority, it is unhealthy.

after seeing that post i actually let myself spend more on certain things that i wanted. if i have to work an extra year or two to retire, so be it.

Yeah, it's a matter of healthy living and health happiness at the same time. If you want a new car because you're keeping up with the Jones' - thats a problem. If you want a new car because you can easily afford one, your old one is a beater and may have major maintenance roughly soon - then you're at least reasonable.

Truth be told, at this point - I don't have an exact plan. I max out retirement accounts (401k x2, ROTH IRA x2, and an HSA), I have a paid off house, and I'm still socking away some after-tax investments.... But I don't have a year or age in mind really at this point.

Things are also about to change a bunch in regards to my spending - After having a kid I'm much more likely to spend more - not so much going out to eat or trivial stuff - But I really want to move to a nicer/safer neighborhood that I don't despise anymore. I'll probably have to drop 2-3x my current house value to get to an area that has all my expectations/desires. Probably total $400-600k range.

My wife is worried about that being too costly, but it's honestly just going to be our first... REAL home. One that I want to live in and see my kids grow up in. Our current home was just a starter home.

 

[brianmanahan]

Don't you uhh... Kinda have to be a citizen of those countries? In plenty of countries, as much as we have ignorant individuals that think immigration is some magical right - there are plenty of places that don't necessarily want you.

i don't think you need to be a citizen of another country to go get a healthcare operation done there. insurance won't pay for it, but if you're paying cash, you should be able to get a procedure done there.

people certainly do that coming into the US - there are a ton of non-US citizens who travel to hospital nearest me to get operations done because there are a bunch of world-class specialists working there.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

i don't think you need to be a citizen of another country to go get a healthcare operation done there. insurance won't pay for it, but if you're paying cash, you should be able to get a procedure done there.

people certainly do that coming into the US - there are a ton of non-US citizens who travel to hospital nearest me to get operations done because there are a bunch of world-class specialists working there.

Money is a currency that any healthcare will accept - but my point just being is that citizens will get... ahem... citizen pricing for the procedures. Be it a copay, drastically reduced amount, etc... because they are likely paying for it with a tax as a citizen.

Chances are that outside the U.S., your health insurance card will just be a useless piece of plastic.” according to CNN. “If you see a doctor or visit a hospital overseas, you’ll most likely need to pay on the spot. Don’t expect countries with free health care, like Canada, to pick up your tab: Coverage is intended for citizens only.” That could result in tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills if you or your volunteer is hit by a car or stepped on by an elephant during a local festival as one of our short-term workers literally had happen to him a couple years ago.

Quick google tells me your pricing isn't going to be great... and getting citizenship isn't a magical over-night process where countries always welcome you with open arms.

 

[lxskllr]

Money is a currency that any healthcare will accept - but my point just being is that citizens will get... ahem... citizen pricing for the procedures. Be it a copay, drastically reduced amount, etc... because they are likely paying for it with a tax as a citizen.



Quick google tells me your pricing isn't going to be great... and getting citizenship isn't a magical over-night process where countries always welcome you with open arms.

I think the idea is you go to Mexico or India, and pay cash. Not go to Canada and their tax subsidized stuff. The savings are exponential, with similar outcomes.