FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) Anyone Doing This?

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snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
8,126
5,151
146
I know a guy who plans to retire at 50. He is super cheap and when he and his wife actually go on vacations, they’re cheap and crappy vacations. They don’t eat at nice restaurants. I could keep going, but you get the picture.

I’d like to retire early, but I’m not going to sacrifice a quality life now in hopes of being able to “live it up” later. Planning for the future, IMO, also has to take into account that you may not have that future or may have issues preventing your planned future from happening, so you have to live in the present too. For one, you may never make it to retirement - you may die in an accident, of a terminal illness, etc. Secondly, if you’re still in relatively good shape, don’t hate your job, and make decent money, why not keep working and piling up more and more savings? Many studies show that retiring and having no job results in depression and early death for many people.

The guy I mentioned earlier who claims he will retire at 50 - I guarantee that when 50 rolls around and he retires, he will be an even bigger cheapass and his wife will bitch about him to my wife even more.

Because I don't want to wait until I'm in poor or declining shape to retire. I don't want to spend half my life sitting in a chair staring at a computer screen; if I get bored or restless, I'd like to have the option of going for a hike, going for a drive, or working on my hobbies, not walking around the office for five minutes.

A lot of Americans know nothing other than work and are horrible at planning. They live to work, whether that's due to financial reasons or because they love what they do, and now without it they have no idea how to fill that 40 hour void each week. This is why the quote, "build the life you want and then save for it" is probably the most important one. Do you really want to sit at home all day watching TV, or do you want to restore classic cars, see the country/world, or sell arts and crafts?

Though I guess if you love what you do, you may continue to do it while in retirement, whether that's through starting your own business/consulting, or making a hobby out of it. There's no rule that says you need to stop what you do for a living just because you've retired. You now have the freedom to work on it at your own pace and by your own rules; you are the now the sole reason for success or failure.

I agree that there's no point in retiring if you're depriving yourself of everything now. Why live like a pauper just so you can continue to live like a pauper? The only difference is you now have to figure out what to do with eight hours each day; thinking about how frugal you are will get old extremely quickly.
 

ctbaars

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2009
1,565
160
106
Do you have children? Because if you have children, you are never retired.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,905
126
Because I don't want to wait until I'm in poor or declining shape to retire. I don't want to spend half my life sitting in a chair staring at a computer screen; if I get bored or restless, I'd like to have the option of going for a hike, going for a drive, or working on my hobbies, not walking around the office for five minutes.

A lot of Americans know nothing other than work and are horrible at planning. They live to work, whether that's due to financial reasons or because they love what they do, and now without it they have no idea how to fill that 40 hour void each week. This is why the quote, "build the life you want and then save for it" is probably the most important one. Do you really want to sit at home all day watching TV, or do you want to restore classic cars, see the country/world, or sell arts and crafts?

Though I guess if you love what you do, you may continue to do it while in retirement, whether that's through starting your own business/consulting, or making a hobby out of it. There's no rule that says you need to stop what you do for a living just because you've retired. You now have the freedom to work on it at your own pace and by your own rules; you are the now the sole reason for success or failure.

I agree that there's no point in retiring if you're depriving yourself of everything now. Why live like a pauper just so you can continue to live like a pauper? The only difference is you now have to figure out what to do with eight hours each day; thinking about how frugal you are will get old extremely quickly.
Whenever I do eventually retire, I definitely see myself still doing software development of some sort. Whether it's just side projects or what, I see myself doing it because I enjoy it.

Now of course, that is going to be between traveling, fishing, diving, exercising, golfing, etc.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,481
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We're headed in the right direction and hope to retire early but a lot of things are still up in the air to give it a firm year: Healthcare, wife's underfunded pension, US economy, and to a lesser extent SS. We could get there faster but we've made conscious decisions to spend more on some things now at the expense of working longer

It's easy to get on the treadmill, and never get off. I've had to be exceptionally frugal out of necessity; even more so than my general nature provides. I still catch myself being needlessly cheap, and giving more attention to minor cost differences than I need to. If you aren't careful, hoarding money becomes the end game, and not simply a tool to reach the end.

I think it's easy to fall off the frugal treadmill too though and those purse strings can open up a tiny bit more every year
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
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I just posted a thread about being obsessed with paying off debt. I've not saved 80% of my income, but then again....I started with a really modest income and bought a house at the age of 24, lived there for 5 years....used it as a rental property and sold it for about a $50k increase... It was like living free for 5 years. The rental profits paid for my mortgage AND an apartment we rented in another city when my wife was in grad school.

Had I decided not to get married and start a family, I would likely have a job that pays more cash up front with less job security/benefits. I also would be living in a much smaller house or renting a place with more liquid assets... Having said all that, I'm leveraging most of my income now to pay off my mortgage and housing-related debts. I'll be 52 when I hit 30 years of retirement savings, but that's still not where I want to be.... The problem there is the gap between 52 years old and being eligible for medicare. Another issue is that promotions tend to occur more frequently to those senior employees....in other words, I may have opportunity for a bigger paycheck in the coming years. That, alongside benefits, could make working longer more appealing.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
We're headed in the right direction and hope to retire early but a lot of things are still up in the air to give it a firm year: Healthcare, wife's underfunded pension, US economy, and to a lesser extent SS. We could get there faster but we've made conscious decisions to spend more on some things now at the expense of working longer



I think it's easy to fall off the frugal treadmill too though and those purse strings can open up a tiny bit more every year
I think it's important to balance spending more when you've got money coming in vs saving for when you may or may not be alive or in good health to enjoy it. Too many people save money their whole lives and never get to reap the benefits. We try to vacation 3-4 weeks a year and do mini-vacations throughout. It's wasteful, but it's also what keeps us going.
 
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IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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Because I don't want to wait until I'm in poor or declining shape to retire. I don't want to spend half my life sitting in a chair staring at a computer screen; if I get bored or restless, I'd like to have the option of going for a hike, going for a drive, or working on my hobbies, not walking around the office for five minutes.

Right, and I don't blame you. If you asked me a few years ago, I wanted to retire as soon as possible and be done with work forever. But over the years, my perspective has changed. If I still have marketable skills and don't mind working, why not just keep piling icing on the cake? I've long thought that once I have my house paid off (very soon), I'd have freedom to maybe find a job where I could do something I really want and care about. Right now, I work from home full time as a consultant and when I actually get to do technical work, I enjoy it. I could keep doing this for a very long time as long as travel doesn't become too much.

Many years ago, I worked with a really nice, older guy. He had a couple of pensions already racked up and was still working. The great thing about him was that he was never stressed out - he knew he was there just to pile icing on his cake and his attitude was that if he hated the job or they got rid of him, no big deal - he'd find something else to pass time and had those two pensions to fall back on. I guess that's where I want to be - where I can still make the money but if I get pissed off, walking won't be a tough decision.

A lot of Americans know nothing other than work and are horrible at planning. They live to work, whether that's due to financial reasons or because they love what they do, and now without it they have no idea how to fill that 40 hour void each week. This is why the quote, "build the life you want and then save for it" is probably the most important one. Do you really want to sit at home all day watching TV, or do you want to restore classic cars, see the country/world, or sell arts and crafts?

Our society has made working 60+ hours every week a badge of honor, and that's unfortunate. As I've posted here before, I look at it the way a CEO of any modern company looks at running their business - I am the CEO of Me, Inc. and my goal is to maximize profits (salary) while minimizing costs (hours worked). Unless I'm being compensated in no uncertain terms, I'm not working 60+ hours regularly. Fortunately, my recent companies have all INSISTED on reasonable work hours and my boss asks me every month how I'm feeling, if I'm burning out, and to be sure not to work long hours and make sure I take my vacation time. That's the way it should be.

Though I guess if you love what you do, you may continue to do it while in retirement, whether that's through starting your own business/consulting, or making a hobby out of it. There's no rule that says you need to stop what you do for a living just because you've retired. You now have the freedom to work on it at your own pace and by your own rules; you are the now the sole reason for success or failure.

Exactly.

I agree that there's no point in retiring if you're depriving yourself of everything now. Why live like a pauper just so you can continue to live like a pauper? The only difference is you now have to figure out what to do with eight hours each day; thinking about how frugal you are will get old extremely quickly.

The guy I mentioned earlier (the one who wants to retire at 50 and is a cheapass) is a really nice guy. But if his wife seriously thinks that once he turns 50 and retires that he'll suddenly be taking her on lavish vacations and they'll be living the high life, she is nuts. It's unfortunate that they're wasting some of the best years of their lives living that way. Of course, in HIS defense, she would spend every dime they have so I guess maybe he isn't wrong. :)
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
One thing to consider in your plan is how and where you're saving. Right now, the biggest challenge with retirement savings is growing the retirement savings into real wealth. A challenge when you start pulling money from the account will be, how to maximize your withdrawals. If you're still living dirt cheap on the other side of the planet and save all your money in a US system, you may still want to pull $X dollars out of the accounts even if you are using less without going to the next tax bracket. Leverage Roth IRAs as much as you can to keep your taxable withdrawals below that number. (maybe $65k for a single person or less depending on the tax structure at the time)

It's a question of capital gains vs taxable income....just research that stuff and see what you can do to pocket as much as you can. Hopefully you won't lose more in exchange rates (despite what cost of living is) with whatever country you choose. That stuff fluctuates a lot, so you may want to track averages when you get there and shoot for lump sums if you transfer cash between international banks. This is all to maximize your savings. Otherwise you could get stuck paying 10+% extra just between taxes and making cash accessible. It's stuff to study up on.
 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
8,126
5,151
146
Right, and I don't blame you. If you asked me a few years ago, I wanted to retire as soon as possible and be done with work forever. But over the years, my perspective has changed. If I still have marketable skills and don't mind working, why not just keep piling icing on the cake? I've long thought that once I have my house paid off (very soon), I'd have freedom to maybe find a job where I could do something I really want and care about. Right now, I work from home full time as a consultant and when I actually get to do technical work, I enjoy it. I could keep doing this for a very long time as long as travel doesn't become too much.

Many years ago, I worked with a really nice, older guy. He had a couple of pensions already racked up and was still working. The great thing about him was that he was never stressed out - he knew he was there just to pile icing on his cake and his attitude was that if he hated the job or they got rid of him, no big deal - he'd find something else to pass time and had those two pensions to fall back on. I guess that's where I want to be - where I can still make the money but if I get pissed off, walking won't be a tough decision.

That's true. Who knows what I'll think of work when I'm older. I recently got called into the CEOs office and told I was a key member, so now I have a vested interest in the company's success. It has changed my mindset a bit, in that I'm "safe" and have the confidence to be more of a leader now, but at the end of the day I still wish I had more personal time.

I work with a guy like that. He could retire at any moment (his wife is already retired) but he just loves what he does. He is the most laid-back guy at work, and one of the smartest/nicest, but still gets in a 7:30a.m. and stays until 6p.m. or later every day.


One thing to consider in your plan is how and where you're saving. Right now, the biggest challenge with retirement savings is growing the retirement savings into real wealth. A challenge when you start pulling money from the account will be, how to maximize your withdrawals. If you're still living dirt cheap on the other side of the planet and save all your money in a US system, you may still want to pull $X dollars out of the accounts even if you are using less without going to the next tax bracket. Leverage Roth IRAs as much as you can to keep your taxable withdrawals below that number. (maybe $65k for a single person or less depending on the tax structure at the time)

It's a question of capital gains vs taxable income....just research that stuff and see what you can do to pocket as much as you can. Hopefully you won't lose more in exchange rates (despite what cost of living is) with whatever country you choose. That stuff fluctuates a lot, so you may want to track averages when you get there and shoot for lump sums if you transfer cash between international banks. This is all to maximize your savings. Otherwise you could get stuck paying 10+% extra just between taxes and making cash accessible. It's stuff to study up on.

I plan on utilizing a Roth conversion ladder. The idea is once you leave your employer, you roll your 401k funds into a traditional IRA; since you're not withdrawing or moving to a different style (tax) account, you don't pay taxes or fees. Then you start a conversion to a Roth IRA, which you'll pay taxes on upfront. You need to wait five years before you start to withdraw or you'll have to pay the 10% penalty, so you'll have to plan this out such that you start a conversion on what you need five years ahead, then just continue every year after that until you turn 59.5. The downside is having to pay taxes on the amount you're converting - it can't grow during that five years tax-free - but you have more control over when and how much you pay taxes on.

This only works if you can make it that first five years with money you've saved outside of your 401k, but if you're retiring early chances are you've got an existing (Roth) IRA and a taxable account.

https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/
 

JM Aggie08

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
8,225
844
136
I try to balance living in the moment/enjoying the now with not spending money like an ass. It's worked out pretty well so far.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
My wife is just over 40 and quit her job in November because it was a toxic environment. They gave her a nice 6-figure severance and she's been saving a while now. But it's not $1mil and even with no house/car payment, that's not enough to retire on. My perspective is if you stop the income stream early, you're basically giving money away. You can't work at 65+ so why aren't you working when you have the skills and time on your side? She loves her free time at the moment but I've been home for well over a decade and it's not all its cracked up to be. Grass is definitely greener on the other side, always. She will see the light soon and jump back to the working world. I hope.
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
327
126
I have no need to fully retire just going to go from being on the tools to being the crazy old man yelling at all the young guys to put their peckers away and get back to work. With the occasion what the fucks taking so long do you need my old ass to come up there and show you how its done. Then actually having to do it from time to time.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
Well... my wife spends money like a drunken sailor compared to the OP, so I'm gonna say no.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I hate threads like these. I'm nowhere near where I want to be, am in no position to amass wealth, and have no expectation of retiring early. Debt needs paid down, and the big moments in life still need to happen (I'm a bachelor, no kids or anything, just a mortgage that serves to tie me down at the moment).
I like what I do but not particularly excited to do it until I can afford to retire.

I try to not let myself get jealous and obsessed with what I don't have, but damn... it's just so easy.

Then I see posts like "well I got my certifications and well, yeah I guess I just worked my way up the ladder" like that's it? lol And here I am, wanting nothing to do with ladders. I went about that route once: ROTC, Officer in the Army Reserve... that's just not me. Granted the worst part was having no break in life, I went straight from high school to college and got a bullshit degree because I, now that I can honestly reflect on my past, honestly just didn't give a shit. Get my degree, get an Army career, retire and yada yada yada. Pie eyed naive youth dream in essence... it didn't work out, I can't stand that gig, have zero interest in climbing the ladder. Fuck me, right? I've largely moved on, focused on my civilian career, and am making moves up the salary ladder... but looking down the road I can't keep this up for 20-30+ more years. And then there's another poster who stated they sock away something like half their salary... how the hell, I'm nowhere near being able to come remotely close to that goal. Again, too much debt, mostly due to stupid decisions in youth.
Fuck. I hate modern life. Work, bills, debt, hoping to retire at some point down the road. I'm 31, that's a far off dream within a dream.

This is why I largely stay out of self-praising threads. I try to be happy with what I got, but what I got isn't all that much, and what I do have is largely thanks to debt.
I desperately need a sabbatical style vacation, a month or two off doing fuck knows what, and I'd be a happy camper. But as purbeast said it (I think), many of us Americans have shit for vacation, and shopping around for more isn't always a possibility. Thankfully I do like my current company and they do strongly push for a work life balance and do occasional check-ups on how one feels about their job and what they might like to see to improve their outlook. But as a small company I can tell they aren't in a position to come close to remotely matching European style vacation time and career benefits in general, and that's certainly not at all a common thing in my area. As I'm newish, a few months past a year at this place, I only get two weeks vacation. That's normal/good in general around here, and it's sickening when I know how things are ran elsewhere in the world. Which goes back to part of the problem -- it'd be better if I was ignorant of the realities of these things, but I'm not, and that makes me sad.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,481
3,601
126
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-feel-bad-if-you-cant-retire-early-2019-02-19

Unless you're an ATOT baller. Then you should feel bad if you can't retire early. :p

WTF is that article:

I make $44,000 a year, my husband makes $42,000 a year.
we can save about 40% to 45% of our salary every month
We funnel roughly $24,000 a year into investments

Saving 40% of $86,000 a year is $34,400 not $24,000. Making some assumptions about their tax situation, working with $24k invested and assuming $0 in existing retirement savings I get spending income replacement in 18 years with a 6% annual increase and 4% SWR. While not the worst case this is far from a "dreamland" scenario. This obviously improves using the 40% they claim to be able to save.

We did some math, and if we worked part time somewhere, we’d make about $120 a week after taxes.

We'd? Total? So $60 a week per person? What kind of shitty side hustle is that? Thats basically 1 day working minimum wage for 1 person. Even if its $120 each this statement doesn't make a lot of sense. I looked up 'grocery store' openings in Nashville and it seems there are openings starting at $10.50/hour no experience necessary (And you get free 'shift food and beverages'). So less than two shifts at a grocery store to make more than $120 after taxes. I don't think they tried to side hustle very hard (And most side hustles aren't large successes immediately anyway. It took us a few years of minimal gains to grow our side business)

You can still be great with money if you’re paying off student loan or credit card debt in your 30s.

If 'paying off credit card debt' is an accomplishment worthy to be mentioned in an article I would argue that you have not been great with money recently.

So is retiring at 30 a possibility for most people? No. But this article just sounds like them trying to comfort themselves about their less than optimal financial decisions. (And not everyone has to make 'optimal' decisions or have the same views as to what optimal is.)
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,481
3,601
126
I hate threads like these. I'm nowhere near where I want to be, am in no position to amass wealth, and have no expectation of retiring early. Debt needs paid down, and the big moments in life still need to happen (I'm a bachelor, no kids or anything, just a mortgage that serves to tie me down at the moment).
I like what I do but not particularly excited to do it until I can afford to retire.

I try to not let myself get jealous and obsessed with what I don't have, but damn... it's just so easy.

Life isn't fair. Thats not a 'lets shit on destrekor for his post' comment but something that I still struggle with from time to time. My dad told me something that still resonates with me: "Someone will always be better than you at something. Someone will always make more money than you." It's a little bit of a blow to the ego but he's right except for an astronomically small section of the population. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't try your best - just that looking at everyone else can be a losing battle if not filtered through the right lens.

And there are plenty of people on financial forums who don't get their shit together until their 40s, 50s or 60s* and there are people who lose their financial shit in their 40s 50s or 60s because of job\medical\divorce problems. (*and not always delayed because of their own faults)

If it helps there are always people worse off than you too. I mean we have running water, easy food availability, internet, don't have to walk 7 miles for food etc. That's not to say you can't ever be unhappy with life but that I find it a bit centering to think about how lucky I am to be born in the US (or really anywhere outside of the really poor or fucked up countries). Before bed a couple days a week I just think about that and - cumulatively - it makes things a bit easier to deal with.

So chin up. Life might not be as easy or glamorous as many like to portray on forums, TV or social media but you can still have a better life than 99.99% of humans who have ever lived. And don't focus on what you will or won't be able to do 20-40 years down the road too much. That'll make a job closer to a prison sentence. Bring it closer in. Getting to next weekend or the one after that doesn't seem so bad.

Besides - everyone could just be lying about their finances and really just live in their parents basements because they can only get a part time job at Taco Bell
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Life isn't fair. Thats not a 'lets shit on destrekor for his post' comment but something that I still struggle with from time to time. My dad told me something that still resonates with me: "Someone will always be better than you at something. Someone will always make more money than you." It's a little bit of a blow to the ego but he's right except for an astronomically small section of the population. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't try your best - just that looking at everyone else can be a losing battle if not filtered through the right lens.

And there are plenty of people on financial forums who don't get their shit together until their 40s, 50s or 60s* and there are people who lose their financial shit in their 40s 50s or 60s because of job\medical\divorce problems. (*and not always delayed because of their own faults)

If it helps there are always people worse off than you too. I mean we have running water, easy food availability, internet, don't have to walk 7 miles for food etc. That's not to say you can't ever be unhappy with life but that I find it a bit centering to think about how lucky I am to be born in the US (or really anywhere outside of the really poor or fucked up countries). Before bed a couple days a week I just think about that and - cumulatively - it makes things a bit easier to deal with.

So chin up. Life might not be as easy or glamorous as many like to portray on forums, TV or social media but you can still have a better life than 99.99% of humans who have ever lived. And don't focus on what you will or won't be able to do 20-40 years down the road too much. That'll make a job closer to a prison sentence. Bring it closer in. Getting to next weekend or the one after that doesn't seem so bad.

Besides - everyone could just be lying about their finances and really just live in their parents basements because they can only get a part time job at Taco Bell

Oh absolutely. That probably came off a bit more whiny than I intended. :p

In general, I feel fairly fortunate with my lot in life, and overall am pretty happy. Most of the issues I have are of my own making. Stupid youth, right?

This is the highlight of #firstworldproblems. I haven't needed to worry about life altering matters and have the basics covered. Do I want more? Absolutely. Doesn't everyone?

In general I feel like I have a decent plan working for me, and whether or not I should be worrying and comparing that plan to others on the internet is perhaps a great question, but seeing these jackasses who had some hair-brained scheme in their teens, turned it into billions in their 20s, and only have to deal with shit posting asshats in the end... that really grinds the gears. I'm talking the Zuckerbergs, Dorseys, etc. The lottery of life is wholly unfair, and the American economic engine even more so (trickle down... HA! what a crock of shit, and I don't even feel bad about the idiots who eat it up with a grin), but that's not something over which to obsess.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,459
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
I'm not one for corporate ladders either. FTS. Too much BS and stress for nothing, life is too short for that. Rather coast at an easy cushy job and find something to do on the side if I want to retire early. Once I'm at a point where I have enough money and can retire, then I don't have to be at a certain place for a certain time so moving to a place that's super cheap and further in the bush to live where I can generate my own power etc to not have as many bills is a great way to retire, and have enough money to do more fun things.

I just found out through someone at work though that my plan of buying rural property and building what I want may not be as easy as I thought. Even on rural land they want engineer plans and BS like that if you build anything. FTS. Wayyyy too much red tape and money. I knew about the permit but assumed it was rather cut and dry on rural land but it may not be the case. Oh well not like I'm ready to do that any time soon. Will just need to make sure that when I buy, it will be an unorganized township where there are no permits at all needed. Harder to find such land unfortunately though.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I'm not one for corporate ladders either. FTS. Too much BS and stress for nothing, life is too short for that. Rather coast at an easy cushy job and find something to do on the side if I want to retire early. Once I'm at a point where I have enough money and can retire, then I don't have to be at a certain place for a certain time so moving to a place that's super cheap and further in the bush to live where I can generate my own power etc to not have as many bills is a great way to retire, and have enough money to do more fun things.

I just found out through someone at work though that my plan of buying rural property and building what I want may not be as easy as I thought. Even on rural land they want engineer plans and BS like that if you build anything. FTS. Wayyyy too much red tape and money. I knew about the permit but assumed it was rather cut and dry on rural land but it may not be the case. Oh well not like I'm ready to do that any time soon. Will just need to make sure that when I buy, it will be an unorganized township where there are no permits at all needed. Harder to find such land unfortunately though.

lol
From other posts of yours, it just sounds like you weren't meant to live within a civilization. You want to do whatever the hell you want? You're going to have to own a secluded island. Civilization is never going to be some kind of libertarian dream utopia. If everyone got to do what they want, everyone would be fucked. Thus why we have common decency and regulations.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,459
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
lol
From other posts of yours, it just sounds like you weren't meant to live within a civilization. You want to do whatever the hell you want? You're going to have to own a secluded island. Civilization is never going to be some kind of libertarian dream utopia. If everyone got to do what they want, everyone would be fucked. Thus why we have common decency and regulations.

I want to at least be able to do what I want on my own land, it's not really much to ask for. Unfortunately these days we are controlled, and people just accept this. So very hard to find a place anywhere in the world where you have full freedom even on your own land. Heck, you don't even really own your land.

Though with rural land I think the key is to just be good at hiding stuff. Bylaw officers are only really looking at sat images, and not visiting. Not like I'd bother to plow the whole driveway. Park in a shipping container and skidoo to the property. If they want to come look they will have to work for it.
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,736
126
isn't it the 4% rule?
if your yearly expenses is $30k then 30k/.04 = $750k needed to retire??? :eek:

4% of $750k = $30k
conservative stock portfolio (40% stock/60% bonds) should keep up with inflation, on avg.

and as a safety buffer, you have social security later in life.

now the main problem is health care...
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,459
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
isn't it the 4% rule?
if your yearly expenses is $30k then 30k/.04 = $750k needed to retire??? :eek:

4% of $750k = $30k
conservative stock portfolio (40% stock/60% bonds) should keep up with inflation, on avg.

and as a safety buffer, you have social security later in life.

now the main problem is health care...

Have to account for costs of living going up though so that 30k of expenses 1 year is maybe 40k the next year, then 50k and so on. Though I guess if you retire late and then have that money in the bank then it might be enough to last the rest of your life time. You don't want to depend on any sort of investment for retirement money as you are screwed if there is a market crash. Though you can invest some of it to cash out later to buy toys etc. Only invest money you can afford to lose. The money you live off of should be liquid.

Thankfully healthcare here in Canada is free so don't have to worry about that... though Doug Ford here in Ontario wants to privatize it, hopefully that does not go through.