Fingerprint sharing led to deportation of 47,000

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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So let me get this straight......advocacy groups are crying foul when these "illegal" immigrants get deported because they have no criminal record??

I would figure since they are here illegally that they are criminals....hmmmm
What a strange world we live in...lol

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigration_local_enforcement

WASHINGTON – Records show that about 47,000 people were removed or deported from the U.S. after the Homeland Security Department sifted through 3 million sets of fingerprints taken from bookings at local jails.

About one-quarter of those kicked out of the country did not have criminal records, according to government data obtained by immigration advocacy groups that filed a lawsuit. The groups plan to release the data Tuesday and provided early copies to The Associated Press.

At issue is a fingerprint-sharing program known as Secure Communities that the government says is focused on getting rid of the "worst of the worst" criminal immigrants from the U.S.

Immigration advocates say that the government instead spends too much time on lower-level criminals or non-criminals.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement divides crimes into three categories, with Level 1 being the most serious. Level 1 crimes include actions that threaten or compromise national security, murder, rape, drug crimes punishable by more than one year and even resisting arrest.

Most of those deported committed Level 2 or 3 crimes or were non-criminals, a monthly report of Secure Communities statistics shows.

"ICE has pulled a bait and switch, with local law enforcement spending more time and resources facilitating the deportations of bus boys and gardeners than murderers and rapists and at considerable cost to local community policing strategies, making us all less safe," said Peter Markowitz, director of the Immigration Justice Clinic at Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law in New York.

Markowitz's clinic, the National Day Laborer Organizers Network and the Center for Constitutional Rights had requested and sued for the statistics. Immigration and Customs Enforcement posted some of the documents on its website late Monday.

Richard Rocha, an Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman, said non-criminals still may be people who have failed to show up for deportation hearings, who recently crossed the border illegally or who re-entered the country after deportation. He also said it's important to remember that more people commit crimes that are considered Level 2 and 3.

Secure Communities is "a beneficial partnership tool for ICE and state and local law enforcement agencies helping to identify, prioritize and remove convicted criminal aliens not only from the communities, but also from the country," Rocha said.

The Obama administration wants Secure Communities operating nationwide by 2013.

As of Aug. 3, 494 counties and local and state agencies in 27 states were sharing fingerprints from jail bookings through the program.

From October 2008 through June of this year, 46,929 people identified through Secure Communities were removed from the U.S., the documents show. Of those, 12,293 were considered non-criminals.

California had the highest percentage of immigrants deported who had committed Level 1 crimes, with 38 percent of a total 14,823 immigrants sent out of the country, according to statistics from 24 states participating by the end of June. In Georgia, 39 percent of 624 immigrants removed were non-criminals, the highest rate among the states.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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670
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Exactly. Non-criminal illegal immigrant is an oxymoron.

Yep. Advocacy groups are free to try to change immigration laws but illegal is by definition criminal.

... and despite the bleeding heart whining, 3 out of 4 had committed other crimes in the US.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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Now let's start a system that goes through SS numbers to find them and make it available to employers. Then we will be able to go after the people hiring them. Once we through a few of them in jail for 5 to 10 the problem will solve itself.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
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Immigration advocates say that the government instead spends too much time on lower-level criminals or non-criminals.

Awww, that's cute, "Immigration advocates" a PC way of saying supporters of illegal immigration.

Most of those deported committed Level 2 or 3 crimes or were non-criminals, a monthly report of Secure Communities statistics shows.

What are the level 2 and level 3 crimes?

"ICE has pulled a bait and switch, with local law enforcement spending more time and resources facilitating the deportations of bus boys and gardeners than murderers and rapists and at considerable cost to local community policing strategies, making us all less safe," said Peter Markowitz, director of the Immigration Justice Clinic at Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law in New York.

So did they ignore the level 1 criminals, or did they just deport the level 2 and 3 criminals also.

The whole pro-illegal statements are a bunch of loaded BS.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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To a certain extent, advocacy groups may be worried about too much police State use of fingerprints. A concern I only somewhat share, but certain far right groups are very horrified of.

Ok, out of 12 million estimated illegal aliens, we get 47,000. Out of that lot, 75% were caught because they committed crimes. But almost 12,000 of them did not.

And since fingerprints are not 100% accurate, how many legitimate US citizens will be wrongly accused, and how much will a national police State program to scan and check all of our finger prints costs on all transactions?

As for the 36,000 illegals caught in jails, if they get their ass deported, great. Now why did GWB never start the program?
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
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To a certain extent, advocacy groups may be worried about too much police State use of fingerprints. A concern I only somewhat share, but certain far right groups are very horrified of.

And since fingerprints are not 100% accurate, how many legitimate US citizens will be wrongly accused, and how much will a national police State program to scan and check all of our finger prints costs on all transactions?

I can also see this aspect of it. However, to be complaining that illegal immigrants who committed no other crimes got deported is asinine IMO.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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And since fingerprints are not 100% accurate, how many legitimate US citizens will be wrongly accused,


YEs..OMG thats right Fingerprints are not 100% accurate...that being the case no two individuals have the same fingerprints!!
So explain your moronic statement that fingerprints are NOT accurate??
 
Jul 10, 2007
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need more of this, ASAP.

i'm sure a lot of these illegals are fine people, but you are not welcome here if you are not here legally.
GTFO!
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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Exactly. Non-criminal illegal immigrant is an oxymoron.

Yeah it sounds great and everyone in this thread believes it, but it is legally incorrect. Being in the U.S. without authorization is a civil offense, not a crime. Crossing the border without papers is a crime, but then, almost half the illegals here came here legally and overstayed. So saying "non-criminal illegal immigrant" is NOT an oxymoron.

- wolf
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
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first infraction of illegal immigration isn't a criminal matter.
 

Zedtom

Platinum Member
Nov 23, 2001
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If you look at most laws the threat of punishment is the best deterrent. The hard core criminals could care less and the ignorant are afraid of their own shadows.

If we really want to rattle some cages the government should announce that they are monitoring large cash withdrawals from business accounts that are paying illegals off the books.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
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Now let's start a system that goes through SS numbers to find them and make it available to employers. Then we will be able to go after the people hiring them. Once we through a few of them in jail for 5 to 10 the problem will solve itself.

If they are using a SS# and they have the documentation in order, what are you to do? Getting false documents isn't exactly hard.

Before you can start faulting employers or social service workers, there has a to be a system in place that proves they are here legally and that everyone is required to participate in. If they do not participate, they are illegal. THEN you can start being ultra strict on enforcement with fines and/or jail time on anyone who aides a known criminal.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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It doesn't matter, if they're here illegally they need to be deported ASAP.

It matters when people repeatedly get their facts wrong because they are trying to frame an issue with simplistic, emotional rhetoric designed to persuade based on animus rather than rational policy.

- wolf
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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If they are using a SS# and they have the documentation in order, what are you to do? Getting false documents isn't exactly hard.

Before you can start faulting employers or social service workers, there has a to be a system in place that proves they are here legally and that everyone is required to participate in. If they do not participate, they are illegal. THEN you can start being ultra strict on enforcement with fines and/or jail time on anyone who aides a known criminal.

SS numbers are just a good place to start. If you have 2 people using the same SS# but living in different parts of the country then somebody should do some checking.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
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SS numbers are just a good place to start. If you have 2 people using the same SS# but living in different parts of the country then somebody should do some checking.

The problem is that it really just looks like someone has two jobs. It's alot of effort to hand check every tax return, investigate and move on. My mother works for the IRS (imagine how much crap I give her :D) and it's really something you have to look for intentionally. What's funny is that she will occasionally bring up a SS# that has like 5 returns on it and the supervisor will wave it on without a flag. Those could be stopped, but I would say that the majority are non-taxpayers.

Making it unprofitable for the employers, many of whom have put everything they have into this business, is really the way to go. But you still need the underlying infrastructure to assure that it is not a burden to citizens and is fair to the parties we aren't trying to catch defrauding our country.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
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The problem is that it really just looks like someone has two jobs. It's alot of effort to hand check every tax return, investigate and move on. My mother works for the IRS (imagine how much crap I give her :D) and it's really something you have to look for intentionally. What's funny is that she will occasionally bring up a SS# that has like 5 returns on it and the supervisor will wave it on without a flag. Those could be stopped, but I would say that the majority are non-taxpayers.

Making it unprofitable for the employers, many of whom have put everything they have into this business, is really the way to go. But you still need the underlying infrastructure to assure that it is not a burden to citizens and is fair to the parties we aren't trying to catch defrauding our country.

If employers are going to hire someone they should have a system to tell if that SS# is currently in use, whether it be a worker, or a retiree. If it is then the employer should check into the status of the person applying for a job. Make them produce a certified birth certificate. If they can't then and they still go ahead and hire them and find out later (during a riad?) that they are here illegally then send the SOB that hired him to jail for 5 years.

That would slow shit down, and if they can catch them paying illeglas off the books then send them in jail for 10 years minimum. If there's a will, there's a way.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
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first infraction of illegal immigration isn't a criminal matter.

This is only true if after the first infraction the illegal immigrant obeys the deporation order they received after the infraction. Likely they ignore the order to leave... making it a criminal matter.