Finding a programming house

[FerraraZ]

I'm a college student and my team has gone ahead and given me the go ahead for researching possible programming house for our internet idea. We have met with investors who have interest and without throwing figures around I wanted to come to anandtech to get a feel for where I could find reputable and good programmers.

For obvious reasons I cannot disclose any information as to what we're doing but the project is a big undertaking. I just wanted some opinions or direction as to where I can start looking.

The budget for development is 750k so this is a serious undertaking for a serious programming company.

I have looked into www.elance.com but I'm not entirely sold and would like to do more research.

Thank you.

 

[skulkingghost]

Your best bet may be to invest in office space and a good CMS, then hire in house coders to work from there so you get better control over your vision. At the least hire someone for in house development who can work with whoever you get to build your site, so they are ready to deal with site issues when the site does go live, instead of just dumpbing them in front of code they have never seen before and expecting them to understand it. I had that happen to me before and the learning curve was a bitch.

 

[Markbnj]

I don't think elance is what you're after, unless you really want to hire a bunch of people you don't know, who charge by the hour and work from home. I won't say it's impossible to be successful on that model, but it will cost more, and be much harder to manage.

That leaves consulting outfits that can bring a team to the table, and will either flat bid the job, or cut you a break on the hourly for buying chunks up front, or charge you full-boat but bring a really strong track record to the project. There are lots of them. Who you pick depends on what you want to do. Whoever you pick, it's easily the most expensive way to get a start-up technology business off the ground. You'll burn cash like a FEMA operation.

If you need full-time effort, then why pay top hourly rates for it? If you have an angel with a checkbook, figure out the minimum number of inspired people you need, rent some space, buy some cheap machines, and start writing code. If there is no angel with checkbook, skip step 1, substitute personal credit cards, and continue.

 

[George P Burdell]

Another vote for doing it in-house. I feel a team can get more work done in a day if they're sitting next to each other, than in a week if everyone is communicating by phone/email.

Have you considered looking at a nearly college for local talent?

 

[hans007]

i am not sure if you are a programmer, but i think you are going to have to go with local talent that is invested in the idea (startup) or code it yourself beacuse unless this idea is wildly awesome and easy to implement by a group of random people which is basically what you are trying to hire.

if its anything decent, the hourly rate for contractors/ consultants who are worth what you pay them that 750k is not going to buy you more than 6-7 people for a year unless you offshore it.

 

[aceO07]

Hire people who will work in an office, which you work in too, on a daily basis. Not to micro-manage them, but just to be around if you have ideas or questions or if they have questions or ideas.. for ease of communication. Also, if they're in the office, it means they will devote time to you (it's their job). If you're not a programmer, find someone whose opinion you trust and ask them to interview or talk to candidates.

I've had experience with trying to work with a disjoint team. A mix mash of people who the head guys thought were interested or good and wanted to work and were all in different locations spread all over the world. It just doesn't work since communication is slow and difficult, interest doesn't mean skill and free work isn't always good. Heck, even paid work isn't always good so use your best judgment or someone else's.

 

[wwswimming]

i suggest going to the local university extension, or the JC, evening classes.

& find a programming instructor who works days at their own gig.

i took a C class at the UC extension in San Diego and the instructor had
a small company with 2 other guys that could have handled this. they've
since gone their own ways.

 

[Martin]

From your post, I gather neither you nor your team are in CS or Eng. A bunch of business majors with an idea and some money, but no clue about software development is what sunk most dot com era companies.

Unless the tech behind your idea is generic and pretty easy to implement, it seems like you're setting yourself up for failure by trying to outsource development. A small dedicated team with control over tech related decisions can be several times more productive and less expensive than what you're trying to do.

You can meet plenty of such people at BarCamp-like gatherings and such
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp

 

[Markbnj]

Unless the tech behind your idea is generic and pretty easy to implement

And if that's true the angel isn't very smart .

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

Unless the tech behind your idea is generic and pretty easy to implement

And if that's true the angel isn't very smart .

When I read about some of the crap that gets funding on TechCrunch, I start thinking there's a sizable community of these, hehe.

But what I meant is, not all software companies depend on their software that much. I used to work for this one company that made software for budgeting, forecasting etc. It was basically the Excel Office Web Component embedded in a page and the system populated the excel rows with data from a database. There were like 10 devs making this and 80 consultants billing clients at around 250/hr. The software was crap, but the company was still doing alright.

In cases like this, I think you can get away with having crappy tech and outsourcing development, but everything is much easier if you do your work properly and have good software.

 

[Atheus]

I think you might have to specify something about the project and the budget to get good advice...

Originally posted by: Markbnj
I don't think elance is what you're after, unless you really want to hire a bunch of people you don't know, who charge by the hour and work from home. I won't say it's impossible to be successful on that model, but it will cost more, and be much harder to manage.

That leaves consulting outfits that can bring a team to the table, and will either flat bid the job, or cut you a break on the hourly for buying chunks up front, or charge you full-boat but bring a really strong track record to the project. There are lots of them. Who you pick depends on what you want to do. Whoever you pick, it's easily the most expensive way to get a start-up technology business off the ground. You'll burn cash like a FEMA operation.

Exactly - if you go with freelancers it will be cheaper but you will have to manage the project yourselves and make sure everyone is on the same page. If you hire a company (like ours) who have a full technical team and do everything from management to design to coding it is going to cost you a *very large* flat fee. Something in the tens of thousands even for a very small project.

 

[Markbnj]

In cases like this, I think you can get away with having crappy tech and outsourcing development, but everything is much easier if you do your work properly and have good software.

That's definitely true, but that same characteristic means it is easy for competition to develop should you prove out a significant market. Start-up stage investors usually want to see something highly proprietary, with first-mover status, and significant growth opportunities. One of them once told me that the worst outcome was "living death," where you discover that you've financed "a decent business" that will just lumber on making a few bucks every year. As far as they're concerned they have zero chance of getting their money out of something like that, in any reasonable timeframe, at a significant level of return. Usually, when you find them invested in a business like this, it's because they bought someone's vision that turned out to be wrong.

Whether this model is right or wrong (I happen to hate it), these guys are not Benjamin Franklin. They have a five year mindset.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Do not outsource programming. That produces the worse disaster ever. Support is a pain, everything is a pain.

Best bet is hire programmers in house or code it yourself. This is specially good if this is semi top secret.

I work for a company that outsources all programming and I take help desk call. Whenever a call involves an application that this company "supports" its basically a grenade. We don't have control over it, and thats a situation you don't want.

 

[hooflung]

Rent a small office, speak with the programming teachers at your university on what you should be looking for in an employee and what to dismiss. Do some interviews and get a team of 3 people and use an internal wiki to partition the ideas and follow development train of thought so you and your partners can be involved in the process. Ask lots of questions before you define the scope of the project to minimize creep and then you and your partners rotate a 9-5 so that you can supervise the workers and do the office work for the rental.

Basically, take ownership. Never outsource unless you are confident that money won't be wasted.