Find the Arab-Isaeli conflict confusing?

[Farang]

I'm just assuming this was the same article that was posted a week or so ago, he complains about the Balfour Declaration and how foreigners had no right to dictate what happened in Palestine. What I said here essentially is that is funny coming from a guy whose country was created by foreigners and who himself owes his throne to foreigners. Hell, there is a dent in Jordan's border that nobody has any idea why it even exists--the old tale being Churchill slipped while drawing it because he had too much to drink (Churchill himself once bragged about 'drawing up Jordan on a Sunday afternoon')

 

[Lemon law]

Now Farang really is in blind denial by saying, "Dear god.. the idiocy of you people might just turn me into a zionist." As if you were not quite evidently one already?

Honest people don't resort to past wrongs to justify current wrongs. Its leads us nowhere. You fool no one but yourself Farang.

 

[Farang]

I think you're arguing with your imaginary friend because you're addressing things I've never said.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Farang
...he complains about the Balfour Declaration and how foreigners had no right to dictate what happened in Palestine.

That isn't what he says, but rather simply refers to the broken promise of the Balfour Declaration:

Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour

And again, the letter is from 1947, just before the UN vote on the Partition Plan for Palestine.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Farang
...he complains about the Balfour Declaration and how foreigners had no right to dictate what happened in Palestine.

That isn't what he says, but rather simply refers to the broken promise of the Balfour Declaration:

Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour

And again, the letter is from 1947, just before the UN vote on the Partition Plan for Palestine.

?? The OP link leads me to the article I thought it was.. an essay "As Arabs See the Jews." This is the part that makes me call him a hypocrite:

We utterly deny its validity. We utterly deny the right of Great Britain to give away Arab land for a "national home" for an entirely foreign people.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Farang

I think you're arguing with your imaginary friend because you're addressing things I've never said.

He is adressing your words exactly from a few posts back:

Originally posted by: Farang

Dear god.. the idiocy of you people might just turn me into a zionist.

Memory lapse?

 

[Farang]

That was sarcasm.. for some reason you guys think I'm a Zionist. I think I'm not going to bother getting into this issue in the future because people are so worked up over it they act like idiots. Really.. this is the worst I've seen it at P&N. I make a comment about an Arab king and people attack me by extrapolating some belief I do not hold about Israel.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Farang

?? The OP link leads me to the article I thought it was.. an essay "As Arabs See the Jews."

That "article" is a letter to the Americans, published in the Economist's November 1947 issue, shortly prior to the UN vote on the Partition Plan for Palestine.

Originally posted by: Farang

This is the part that makes me call him a hypocrite:

We utterly deny its validity. We utterly deny the right of Great Britain to give away Arab land for a "national home" for an entirely foreign people.

As if being from just south of Jordan makes one entirely foreign, or as if he brought hundreds of thousands of colonizsts to overtake the Arabs there?

Regardless, I don't really care why you want to call him a hypocrite, my issue is with how doing so without acknowledging the validity of his argument on serves to perpetuate this conflict.

 

[Farang]

The situations in Jordan and Israel do not have to be completely identical for him to be a hypocrite for whining about British intervention. And I don't need to acknowledge anything, I was making a single point.. should I include with every post what I had for breakfast as well? Toast with strawberry jam. Two pieces.

 

[Lemon law]

You still only fool yourself Farang, we should not be captives of the past wrongs on both sides, we can only advance by deciding what is fair to all NOW. All else is needless confusion.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
You still only fool yourself Farang, we should not be captives of the past wrongs on both sides, we can only advance by deciding what is fair to all NOW. All else is needless confusion.

If you feel this way perhaps you should stay out of a thread about "one Arab's viewpoint, in an American magazine, written in 1947, 6 months before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

 

[kylebisme]

You are oblivious.

We can't be captive to the wrongs of both sides.

We must understand the wrongs of both sides to bring a just resolution to this conflict.

I suppsoe that might be too complex for some to grasp.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Lemon law
IMHO, this thread assumption is somewhat absurd, there is nothing confusing at all.

Just strip off Israeli propaganda, strip off Arab propaganda, strip away Palestinian propaganda, and above all reject the concept that any numbers of wrongs add up to one right, and then substitute your own standards of what is fair instead, and the confusion totally vanishes.

Think for yourself. Then it becomes very possible to respect Israel's right to exist and realize that it can't be purchased in the coin of exploitation and unfairness.

Until Israel and the Palestinian people can work for common goals, no peace will ever be possible. All we are doing now is failing to redress where it all went tragically wrong in 1948. And piling the bullshit higher and deeper. Binding third party arbitration may be required.

It is not Israel and the Palestinian people. It is Israel and the outside forces that choose to exploit the Palestinian people.

Exploit for what? Israel doesn't have factories there :laugh:

Got you are dense.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
You are oblivious.

We can't be captive to the wrongs of both sides.

We must understand the wrongs of both sides to bring a just resolution to this conflict.

I suppsoe that might be too complex for some to grasp.

I wonder, how many Israelis would be willing to trade places with Palestinians?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
You are oblivious.

We can't be captive to the wrongs of both sides.

We must understand the wrongs of both sides to bring a just resolution to this conflict.

I suppsoe that might be too complex for some to grasp.

I wonder, how many Israelis would be willing to trade places with Palestinians?

That is one assinine question!
In fact it`s something one would expect out of somebody who doesn`t have a clue at all concerning whats happenning over there.

You know you have to take your lot in life and accept it!
The Palestinians knew when they elected Hamas what they were in for.......

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
You are oblivious.

We can't be captive to the wrongs of both sides.

We must understand the wrongs of both sides to bring a just resolution to this conflict.

I suppsoe that might be too complex for some to grasp.

I wonder, how many Israelis would be willing to trade places with Palestinians?

Would you be willing to trade your place for a African in some shithole country who just go the wrong role of the dice? I mean I know your personally morals and ethics are so strong you would be willing to do what it takes to change the world and not just try and tell people what they have to do right?

What a stupid question.

 

[Doboji]

I don't think the conflict is really that complicated...

Jews orignally came from Israel...
wars kicked em out a few millenia ago
The land got fought over by lotsa folks over those millenia
Jews were victimized throughout europe for being Jews culminating in the holocaust
This anti-semitism gave rise to Zionism... the belief that jews will only ever be safe in their own state watching out for themselves
The zionist dream took root in Israel... the people living there at the time didnt take kindly to a massive influx of some other people
War broke out... the Zionists won... displacing almost a million people...
The arab countries displaced all of the Jews living in their country... further swelling the population of Israel.
The arab countries never ever absorbed the arab refugees who eventually formed their own unique national identity.
You now have an ongoing war between the Israelis... and the Palestinians.... both of whom really deserve to live... well somewhere.
Modern rules of warfare disallow the conflict from ever ending... if this was the 1700s... There would be no Palestinians
War is bad.

Any questions?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Doboji
I don't think the conflict is really that complicated...

Its a lot more complicated than that, but you are obviously part of the "death to Palestine" crew, and don't have any interest in understanding anything beyond what you need to affirm your support of that.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Doboji
I don't think the conflict is really that complicated...

Its a lot more complicated than that, but you are obviously part of the "death to Palestine" crew, and don't have any interest in understanding anything beyond what you need to affirm your support of that.

yet you believe that your facts are correct and others believe that their facts are correct.....
You also believe that anybody who really understands the issues will believe or have the same opinions or outlook as you have.......

What is the answer....well we all have our ideas and we can all discuss till hell freezes over who started what or who did what etc...etc.....

Yet the true bottom line is all parties need to stop acting like children and they need to stop whatever they are doing to piss the other party off. Also both sides need to take responsibility for the actions of those who just will not quit doing whatever they are doing.....


I will agree with you on onr thing........this is a lot more complicated than what people realize!


Shalom!

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
yet you believe that your facts are correct and others believe that their facts are correct.....

Facts are inherently correct, but distinguishing facts from what one might want to belive is easier for some of us than others.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
You also believe that anybody who really understands the issues will believe or have the same opinions or outlook as you have.......

I see a lot of people who misunderstand the issues, and hence support opinions and outlooks which I highly doubt they would if they were to better understand the relevant facts. Granted, I also see some people who do have a though understanding of the relveant facts and use them to exploit others, but most people don't hold such devious intentions.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
What is the answer....well we all have our ideas and we can all discuss till hell freezes over who started what or who did what etc...etc.....

Sure, that is what the devious few want to keep us busy with while contenue to further their goals as others suffer.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Yet the true bottom line is all parties need to stop acting like children and they need to stop whatever they are doing to piss the other party off. Also both sides need to take responsibility for the actions of those who just will not quit doing whatever they are doing.....

That is the bottom line exactly, and has been since this conflict started. Unfortunately, the side holding all the power has shown no intent to stop, and as that is our side it is our responsibility to change that.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
I will agree with you on onr thing........this is a lot more complicated than what people realize!

Shalom!

Very compllicated in many respects, yet simple as well. Much like "Shalom".

And Shalom to you!

 

[Lemon law]

Lets see, Israel can import Russian, Ethopian, and African jews who are far more primitive and bloodthirsty than Palestinians, give them weapons, equal rights, and let them drive Israeli politics, yet this prevents Israel from assimilating Palestinians, and justifies herding them into hopeless ghettos.

But if this were the 1940's, Israel would simply build ovens like the Nazi's and gas the lot, but Israel is more civilized because they deprive Palestinians of everything but their lives, and instead come by periodically and shoot and shell civilians because a small percentage of Palestinians and terrorists have been shooting rockets into Israel for 60 years now. Just like Jews did pre 1948 Israel under the British mandate.

Get a clue, the reprisal card never works, such conflicts keep going and going until a fair settlement is reached.