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FINALLY time to get a new car - KIA Sportage? Maybe PT Cruiser?

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Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I still say look at a Subaru Forester. The PT Cruiser was one of the most uncomfortable vehicles I have ever sat in.
Click to expand...

Hmm... would you consider yourself a large person? 😉 Or was it the contour of the seat you didn't like?
Click to expand...

Not large by any means. 6' and 170 pounds. It's just a symptom of being a blinged up economy car. The seats are just bare minimums. Flat backs with no thigh support and I couldn't find a position that didn't leave my knees scraping the bottom of the steering wheel.

Concerning repairs, the Subaru 2.5L and the AWD system are pretty much bullet proof. Very solid systems with many many many vehicles running 200k+ miles with minimal repairs. The parts are shared across just about every vehicle subaru makes so it's not like it's a highly specialized vehicle. Insurance on them is cheap too because of the safety ratings.
 
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I still say look at a Subaru Forester. The PT Cruiser was one of the most uncomfortable vehicles I have ever sat in.
Click to expand...

Hmm... would you consider yourself a large person? 😉 Or was it the contour of the seat you didn't like?
Click to expand...

Not large by any means. 6' and 170 pounds. It's just a symptom of being a blinged up economy car. The seats are just bare minimums. Flat backs with no thigh support and I couldn't find a position that didn't leave my knees scraping the bottom of the steering wheel.

Concerning repairs, the Subaru 2.5L and the AWD system are pretty much bullet proof. Very solid systems with many many many vehicles running 200k+ miles with minimal repairs. The parts are shared across just about every vehicle subaru makes so it's not like it's a highly specialized vehicle. Insurance on them is cheap too because of the safety ratings.
Click to expand...


My brother makes a nice living in the transmission business. There's no such thing as "bullet proof". For every person who claims 200k miles with no problems, there are 10 real people with all kinds of problems under 75k miles. For any car. There is no magic way to avoid this.

And AWD adds a lot of expense to repairs, and more stuff to break.

 
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I still say look at a Subaru Forester. The PT Cruiser was one of the most uncomfortable vehicles I have ever sat in.
Click to expand...

Hmm... would you consider yourself a large person? 😉 Or was it the contour of the seat you didn't like?
Click to expand...

Not large by any means. 6' and 170 pounds. It's just a symptom of being a blinged up economy car. The seats are just bare minimums. Flat backs with no thigh support and I couldn't find a position that didn't leave my knees scraping the bottom of the steering wheel.

Concerning repairs, the Subaru 2.5L and the AWD system are pretty much bullet proof. Very solid systems with many many many vehicles running 200k+ miles with minimal repairs. The parts are shared across just about every vehicle subaru makes so it's not like it's a highly specialized vehicle. Insurance on them is cheap too because of the safety ratings.
Click to expand...


My brother makes a nice living in the transmission business. There's no such thing as "bullet proof". For every person who claims 200k miles with no problems, there are 10 real people with all kinds of problems under 75k miles. For any car. There is no magic way to avoid this.

And AWD adds a lot of expense to repairs, and more stuff to break.
Click to expand...

Maintenance is also increased.
 
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I still say look at a Subaru Forester. The PT Cruiser was one of the most uncomfortable vehicles I have ever sat in.
Click to expand...

Hmm... would you consider yourself a large person? 😉 Or was it the contour of the seat you didn't like?
Click to expand...

Not large by any means. 6' and 170 pounds. It's just a symptom of being a blinged up economy car. The seats are just bare minimums. Flat backs with no thigh support and I couldn't find a position that didn't leave my knees scraping the bottom of the steering wheel.

Concerning repairs, the Subaru 2.5L and the AWD system are pretty much bullet proof. Very solid systems with many many many vehicles running 200k+ miles with minimal repairs. The parts are shared across just about every vehicle subaru makes so it's not like it's a highly specialized vehicle. Insurance on them is cheap too because of the safety ratings.
Click to expand...


My brother makes a nice living in the transmission business. There's no such thing as "bullet proof". For every person who claims 200k miles with no problems, there are 10 real people with all kinds of problems under 75k miles. For any car. There is no magic way to avoid this.

And AWD adds a lot of expense to repairs, and more stuff to break.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but not all cars are created equal. The AWD system in most Subaru's is one of the most simple, efficient, and reliable AWD setups in the auto industry. They've been using it for decades. Same goes for the 2.XL they drop in most of their cars. It's just a setup that when treated properly, runs and runs and runs.

No manufacturer is without a lemon, but by and large some produce more lemons than others. Me personally, I'll put my chips on the table in favor of the Subaru drivetrain over the DCX one.
 
FWIW, I delivered papers on the side for several years. ($800 a month in cash for 2 hours a day worth of work).

I worked with "full time" couriers that did over $40,000 a year in paper deliveries. These guys were doing 6 hours a day of deliveries in both in town and country driving.

There were two makes/models that were predominent in this profession - Subaru wagons and Jeep Cherokees(a DCX product). These people would beat the ever living hell out a vehicle over a 3-5 year period and wrack up a couple hundred thousand miles on them. Then turn around and buy the same make/model. Those were two models sworn by because of their reliability.

Many of the rural mail carriers around here are the same thing. Subaru or Jeep. Has to say something about their reliablility if people that depend on them for their job endorse them.
 
Any car properly maintained and treated well will run and run and run.

It's a simple fact that AWD has more things that will fail than non-AWD. They also tend to suffer more abuse, because people expect more out of them because they are AWD. eg. people with AWD may drive faster in snow, and hit a curb or pothole at a higher rate of speed, making damage to axles and CV joints more likely.

And imports, including Subaru, tend to be considerably more expensive to repair than domestics.

 
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I still say look at a Subaru Forester. The PT Cruiser was one of the most uncomfortable vehicles I have ever sat in.
Click to expand...

Hmm... would you consider yourself a large person? 😉 Or was it the contour of the seat you didn't like?
Click to expand...

Not large by any means. 6' and 170 pounds. It's just a symptom of being a blinged up economy car. The seats are just bare minimums. Flat backs with no thigh support and I couldn't find a position that didn't leave my knees scraping the bottom of the steering wheel.

Concerning repairs, the Subaru 2.5L and the AWD system are pretty much bullet proof. Very solid systems with many many many vehicles running 200k+ miles with minimal repairs. The parts are shared across just about every vehicle subaru makes so it's not like it's a highly specialized vehicle. Insurance on them is cheap too because of the safety ratings.
Click to expand...
My 97 Legacy GT Wagon has 209K miles and running strong. An early 2000's Subaru would be a great, safe, reliable choice. You won't need the AWD much around here, but it sure can't hurt.
Fun fact: A brand new Legacy GT 250HP turbo was cheaper to insure than a brand new Accord sedan four cylinder, if that tells you anything about the safety of Subaru's.
 
Originally posted by: vi_edit
FWIW, I delivered papers on the side for several years. ($800 a month in cash for 2 hours a day worth of work).

I worked with "full time" couriers that did over $40,000 a year in paper deliveries. These guys were doing 6 hours a day of deliveries in both in town and country driving.

There were two makes/models that were predominent in this profession - Subaru wagons and Jeep Cherokees(a DCX product). These people would beat the ever living hell out a vehicle over a 3-5 year period and wrack up a couple hundred thousand miles on them. Then turn around and buy the same make/model. Those were two models sworn by because of their reliability.

Many of the rural mail carriers around here are the same thing. Subaru or Jeep. Has to say something about their reliablility if people that depend on them for their job endorse them.
Click to expand...


I think is says more about the fact postal carriers and newspaper deliverers have to work in severe weather conditions than it does about reliability. They have a good reason to want AWD, even if it does cost more and add to the expense of repair.

btw, my daughter was a rural mail carrier in Logan, Utah, and she loved her Subaru. I'm not arguing they are a bad car or anything.

 
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I still say look at a Subaru Forester. The PT Cruiser was one of the most uncomfortable vehicles I have ever sat in.
Click to expand...

Hmm... would you consider yourself a large person? 😉 Or was it the contour of the seat you didn't like?
Click to expand...

Not large by any means. 6' and 170 pounds. It's just a symptom of being a blinged up economy car. The seats are just bare minimums. Flat backs with no thigh support and I couldn't find a position that didn't leave my knees scraping the bottom of the steering wheel.

Concerning repairs, the Subaru 2.5L and the AWD system are pretty much bullet proof. Very solid systems with many many many vehicles running 200k+ miles with minimal repairs. The parts are shared across just about every vehicle subaru makes so it's not like it's a highly specialized vehicle. Insurance on them is cheap too because of the safety ratings.
Click to expand...


My brother makes a nice living in the transmission business. There's no such thing as "bullet proof". For every person who claims 200k miles with no problems, there are 10 real people with all kinds of problems under 75k miles. For any car. There is no magic way to avoid this.

And AWD adds a lot of expense to repairs, and more stuff to break.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but not all cars are created equal. The AWD system in most Subaru's is one of the most simple, efficient, and reliable AWD setups in the auto industry. They've been using it for decades. Same goes for the 2.XL they drop in most of their cars. It's just a setup that when treated properly, runs and runs and runs.

No manufacturer is without a lemon, but by and large some produce more lemons than others. Me personally, I'll put my chips on the table in favor of the Subaru drivetrain over the DCX one.
Click to expand...
Took the words out of my mouth. If the differentials died, sure it would cost more to fix than a FWD or RWD car (well, maybe not more than FWD). Head over to NASIOC and ask how many people have had to replace their differentials. The only people who have will be people who either (A) didn't maintain the car well at all in the first place or (B) are making sick amounts of power off a 2-2.5L four cylinder turbo and tore up their entire drivetrain in the process.

My 97's never even had the differential fluid changed I don't think, 209K miles with zero drivetrain problems. 4EAT doing well, and this generation's auto is supposed to be considered the more "questionable" of Subaru's automatic transmissions. Says a lot IMO
 
If your going to look at a PT look at a Chev HHR as well then, same function but the Chev is built on a new platform and the PT is old.
 
There's more to an AWD car than an extra differential. much more likely that bearings, clutches, or couplings will wear out or fail. And AWD has more of these than non-AWD.

Instead of going to a forum, go to a large shop that does repairs and ask them if they ever work on Subaru drivetrains, and how much repairs cost.

There are all kinds of anecdotal experiences, good and bad, with all kinds of cars, but that doesn't have anything to do with actual frequency of repair. Or the cost of repairs when they are needed.
 
Originally posted by: J0hnny
A 1997 Civic with all those problems?

How in the world did that happen?
How many miles do you have in it? How hard do you drive it?

Was regular maintenance done on the Civic as per suggested intervals?

If you get a Kia, expect to be able to maintain it like any other car. I've heard quality has been improving. What's the warranty on a Kia again?
Click to expand...

lol. ATOT japanese car fanbois can't believe their cars would actually break.
 
My gf has a PT. Other than needing brakes a bit earlier than I thought it should, and her running it into things it hasn't had any problems.
I find it quite comfortable to travel in.
 

Originally posted by: lokiju
My fiancee Mom has the KIA Sorento and swears she'll never get a KIA again.

It's a very rough ride for being such a new car.

Have you considered the Hyundai Santa Fe?

It's redesigned for this year and is actually a very good bang for the buck car with a nice smooth ride and ample power.
Click to expand...

hmmmm

i seem to remember seeing that the sorento and sante fe were very very similar vehicles, badge engineering comes to mind.

everyone i know that has the sorrento loves it.

 
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
your problem is your mechanic. despite his skill in manipulating you, your mechanic doesn't actually sound like a very good MECHANIC.
Click to expand...

Calm down there kujo. The alternator was replaced 3 years ago, and I don't doubt they did something wrong or we wouldn't be having a problem now. But it did need replaced at the time, because the car's electrical system went totally haywire. But we moved to another state 6 months ago and what's done is done.
Click to expand...

"need replaced" ? 😕
 
Originally posted by: desy
If your going to look at a PT look at a Chev HHR as well then, same function but the Chev is built on a new platform and the PT is old.
Click to expand...

HHR is one of the ugliest vehicles ever built
 
You should look at Hyundai Elantras. Brand new ones start in the 12s and have EXCELLENT crash ratings and really good warranties.
 
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: vi_edit
FWIW, I delivered papers on the side for several years. ($800 a month in cash for 2 hours a day worth of work).

I worked with "full time" couriers that did over $40,000 a year in paper deliveries. These guys were doing 6 hours a day of deliveries in both in town and country driving.

There were two makes/models that were predominent in this profession - Subaru wagons and Jeep Cherokees(a DCX product). These people would beat the ever living hell out a vehicle over a 3-5 year period and wrack up a couple hundred thousand miles on them. Then turn around and buy the same make/model. Those were two models sworn by because of their reliability.

Many of the rural mail carriers around here are the same thing. Subaru or Jeep. Has to say something about their reliablility if people that depend on them for their job endorse them.
Click to expand...


I think is says more about the fact postal carriers and newspaper deliverers have to work in severe weather conditions than it does about reliability. They have a good reason to want AWD, even if it does cost more and add to the expense of repair.

btw, my daughter was a rural mail carrier in Logan, Utah, and she loved her Subaru. I'm not arguing they are a bad car or anything.
Click to expand...
Also, both Subaru and those old Cherokees were available in this country in right hand drive -- HUGE for mail carriers.

 
I guess I'll add my ideas here with the others. KIA's before 2005 were pretty bad, but newer ones are much better. My neighbor has a 2005 KIA minivan. He is very particular and he likes it. It was $14,000 new.

A PT Cruiser is built on Dodge Neon running gear. They're much less "polished" than the civic in general, but both can deliver some good service with reasonable care. The Neons get 34 MPG in real life, but I don't know about the PT Cruisers.

We went with a used Toyota Corrolla (2002) a few years back for $10,000, and with synthetic oil (recommended for toyotas) it has been as dependable is the Honda Accords we had in the past. By that I mean oil changes, tires, and front brakes in 40,000 miles of use. It now has 65,000 on it. Mileage stays in the 30s.


Jim
 
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