Finally starting to narrow it down

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gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,741
456
126
I'm thinking about throwing the Grand Cherokee into the mix. I really like the Durango too, but it's really bigger than I need so I think it'll stay off the list.

Don't... friends don't let friends buy Jeep

My 2014 had a lot of electrical issues, and the customer service through Jeep is absolutely abysmal. Kaido found that out too (and he's still in the middle of it IIRC) with his Renegade.

Chrysler has some of the best aesthetics both inside and out, and good features, but their internal reliability is still awful. The service you have to deal with when (not if) you do have problems makes Comcast look amazing.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
Don't... friends don't let friends buy Jeep

My 2014 had a lot of electrical issues, and the customer service through Jeep is absolutely abysmal. Kaido found that out too (and he's still in the middle of it IIRC) with his Renegade.

Chrysler has some of the best aesthetics both inside and out, and good features, but their internal reliability is still awful. The service you have to deal with when (not if) you do have problems makes Comcast look amazing.

This, so much this!
If I hadn't purchased the Max Care warranty with my 2011 Grand Cherokee I would be in the hole almost $7000 for the work that's been done to it.
It will be the last Chrysler vehicle I ever own because of the problems I've had.
Once the warranty runs out next year it's gone.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
106
This, so much this!
If I hadn't purchased the Max Care warranty with my 2011 Grand Cherokee I would be in the hole almost $7000 for the work that's been done to it.
It will be the last Chrysler vehicle I ever own because of the problems I've had.
Once the warranty runs out next year it's gone.

The FCA stories never cease. When we bought our 4Runner, we really wanted a Grand Cherokee. We thought it looked better, drove better, and had a much better interior...but I was scared off from previous empirical and anecdotal evidence of reliability. Every time I hear another story like this, it makes me happy with my choice. 66k on the 2013 4Runner with zero issues and only air filters, oil changes, and brakes (at 65k).
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,741
456
126
The FCA stories never cease. When we bought our 4Runner, we really wanted a Grand Cherokee. We thought it looked better, drove better, and had a much better interior...but I was scared off from previous empirical and anecdotal evidence of reliability. Every time I hear another story like this, it makes me happy with my choice. 66k on the 2013 4Runner with zero issues and only air filters, oil changes, and brakes (at 65k).

I'm very happy with my Highlander which replaced the GC. Yes, the infotainment system on the Jeep was better, and the stereo sounded great for a stock system (and not even the best option) but I just couldn't trust it. I'm currently leasing the Highlander but with the updates to the 2017 line I'm absolutely going to be buying a Highlander Hybrid in the Limited Platinum package.
 

Herr Kutz

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,545
242
106
I have a dealer down to $28k on a diesel Colorado if I pick it up by Tuesday. Unfortunately it's a ways away so that isn't possible.
 

leper84

Senior member
Dec 29, 2011
989
29
86
I have a dealer down to $28k on a diesel Colorado if I pick it up by Tuesday. Unfortunately it's a ways away so that isn't possible.


Look into the maintenance costs before you pull the trigger. I know diesel sounds great on paper but are usually more expensive to maintain. For example the new diesel Ram 1500's need special full syn 5w30 (Mobil 1 ESP most common) that goes for $10-$13/qt. I don't know much about the Colorado diesels but I'd be wary.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
2016 Malibu (new LTZ or Premier with the 2.0t)
I'm three months in on a 2016 Premier and I can't express how much I am enamored with this car. I went from a 2014 CTS to the Malibu and the difference between the two is amazing. Both have the same engine but the ride quality and the comfort of the seats is a night and day thing. I hated the Cadillac, I love the Chevy. I haven't loved a car in a long, long time but this one has got my heart pumping. I highly recommend it.
 

Herr Kutz

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,545
242
106
Look into the maintenance costs before you pull the trigger. I know diesel sounds great on paper but are usually more expensive to maintain. For example the new diesel Ram 1500's need special full syn 5w30 (Mobil 1 ESP most common) that goes for $10-$13/qt. I don't know much about the Colorado diesels but I'd be wary.

Yeah I've played with the numbers and I don't think I would ever fully recoup the cost of the diesel unless gas went up a lot and I kept it for like 15 years.
 

Herr Kutz

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,545
242
106
I'm three months in on a 2016 Premier and I can't express how much I am enamored with this car. I went from a 2014 CTS to the Malibu and the difference between the two is amazing. Both have the same engine but the ride quality and the comfort of the seats is a night and day thing. I hated the Cadillac, I love the Chevy. I haven't loved a car in a long, long time but this one has got my heart pumping. I highly recommend it.

The CTS had worse ride quality and comfort than the Malibu?!
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
The CTS had worse ride quality and comfort than the Malibu?!
Yup. Cadillac decided they needed to compete with Mercedes and BMW and went in the direction of, as the salesman termed it, "sport suspension". I didn't notice it on a short test drive, I guess I was too taken with the electronics (Cue) and the interior finishes, which of course leave the Malibu in the dust. I hated the car and my wife hated it too. We felt like we were riding in a 70's era pickup. On a trip from Michigan to Virginia, my wife could not get the seat in a comfortable position for her and had back pain for two days afterwards both coming and going.

I'm now telling friends that I had a Chevrolet ride and a Cadillac payment and now I have a Cadillac ride and a Chevrolet payment. Huge decrease in my insurance too.

I'm averaging 36.8 mpg and the car has got gobs of power. Same motor as the Cadillac but with far better gas mileage.
 

Herr Kutz

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,545
242
106
One of the reasons I'm considering some Chevy vehicles is that they actually focus on quiet and comfortable even in the everyman's car.

What sort of mpgs do you get at 70mph steady on flat terrain? And at 80mph?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
The CX-5 in its current iteration is too loud. Per Mazda, the NVH is being improved for the 2017 model year which is why it is on the list. The jury is still out as to whether they went far enough. Same situation for the CR-V. As for the escape, I do not want a pre 2017 model year because I like the updated Sync system and improved (imho) looks in the refreshed model.

This is just arbitrarily picky for someone who's looking at Malibu or Diesel Colorado, and suggests there's nothing such a thread can do for you beyond personally testing some vehicles and choosing which feels best.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,740
7,305
136
Don't... friends don't let friends buy Jeep

My 2014 had a lot of electrical issues, and the customer service through Jeep is absolutely abysmal. Kaido found that out too (and he's still in the middle of it IIRC) with his Renegade.

Chrysler has some of the best aesthetics both inside and out, and good features, but their internal reliability is still awful. The service you have to deal with when (not if) you do have problems makes Comcast look amazing.

Yeah, I've just quit complaining about it...still having massive & ridiculous issues with the Jeep Renegade tho, and Jeep & my state have been completely useless for helping me :p

I will never buy an FCA product again. I've been burned by Dodge's quality control issues in the past (minivan & truck), plus the ongoing issues with my Jeep, plus pretty much everyone I know has issues their Chrysler's etc.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,152
635
126
I'm now telling friends that I had a Chevrolet ride and a Cadillac payment and now I have a Cadillac ride and a Chevrolet payment. Huge decrease in my insurance too.
FYI that just means you're old. But yes, Cadillac has been working hard to get rid of the "old man" image. I guess it's working?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,740
7,305
136
I've been test driving vehicles for the around the past 4 years trying to find the perfect one. I feel like I'm finally starting to narrow it down and could very well be in a new (or used) vehicle soon. With deals getting hot as we near the end of the year and the economy set to boom under Trump, this really is the time to buy. So rather than make a new thread to ask questions for every vehicle I test drive, I'm going to make this my new-vehicle-search thread. Without further ado, here are the contenders I've whittled it down to so far (in no particular order):

  1. 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5 4WD (2 year old used vehicle)
  2. 2017 Subaru Forester 2.5i Premium w/ Eyesight (New)
  3. 2016/2017 Subaru Outback 3.6r Limited (Maybe new, maybe used)
  4. 2016 Diesel Colorado or Canyon (prefer the Colorado's exterior but the Canyon's interior)
  5. 2016 Ford Edge (either a used titanium or SEL or a new SEL)
  6. 2016/2017 Civic (not sure if I would go with the EX, EX-L, or Touring)
  7. 2016/2017 Accord (V6 or Hybrid)
  8. 2015/2016/2017 Camry (new or lightly used LE or used V6)
  9. 2015/2016/2017 Fusion (New SE or used SE)
  10. 2016 Malibu (new LTZ or Premier with the 2.0t)
  11. 2015/2016 Rav4 (Used AWD XLE)
  12. 2017 Sonata Hybrid
  13. 2015+ Mustang V6 (Used or New)
Upcoming vehicles on my radar:
  1. 2017 CRV
  2. 2017 CX-5
  3. 2017 Compass
I've test driven most the vehicles on my list but really need to get in additional tests to further narrow it down. I'm thinking the most practical for me now would be something along the lines of the Forester, but I'm not sure I want the Forester image or the practical image. If anyone has experience with any of the vehicles on my list above please leave your thoughts, both positive and negative.

Moved from P&N.
admin allisolm

A few notes, as I've test-driven the bulk of this list:

1. The new Civic is amazing, especially on the tech side of things - you get TACC with LSF, which is radar cruise (Traffic-Aware Cruise Control) that keeps you a set distance away from the car ahead of you (aka Adaptive cruise control), along with stop & go traffic support (LSF = low-speed follow), so you can do the radar cruise thing in traffic jams too. Glorious feature. Also, the Accord is nice, but when I leased my '13 Civic, I went in for an Accord & liked the Civic so much better that I walked out with the Civic.
2. I've driven both the V6 & 4-cylinder Mustangs. The 4-cylinder is way more fun thanks to the turbo. The 6 is solid, but I really really enjoyed the 4-cylinder.
3. If you're going to get an automatic Mustang, you may want to do it this year. Ford is switching over to a 10-speed automatic next year. I have yet to drive an automatic transmission above 6 gears that I like. I've driven 8 & 9-speed transmissions and I hate them. Crappy response & poor throttle mapping. Lag. Yuck. I haven't tested Ford's 10-speed, but I don't imagine it will be much better.
4. If you're looking at the Colorado, have you seen the new ZR2 model? Oooooooh man! http://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/15/2017-chevy-colorado-zr2-diesel-off-road-multimatic-spool-valve/
5. I'm a huge fan of the Forester. My wife has one with EyeSight. Absolutely fantastic. By far the best CVT I've driven. EyeSight is wonderful if you drive highway. Fantastic visibility. Super peppy throttle. Not luxury by any means, very utilitarian design, but feels like it will last forever. I didn't like the Outback nearly as much, didn't feel as roomy, but my dealership never gets in the 3.6's & I suspect it would be a lot more enjoyable with that engine in it. But you can't go wrong with the 4-cylinder Forester. For 2014 & newer, one of the best cars out there imo. I know what you mean about the practicality image, but after a few weeks you'll quit caring because it drives & rides so nice, is so easy to get around in thanks to the visibility, EyeSight works so awesome, etc. I really should have gotten a second one instead of my Jeep.
6. Haven't been impressed with the glitches or support from Jeep. Got pretty burned on my current ride (Renegade) & it has really turned me off to FCA vehicles. Just my experience. Lots of people get them & have zero issues.
7. Kia makes really great cars. Not on your list, but they are pretty fantastic. Their new van is amazing. Love their Soul, which is now available in Turbo (design-wise, obviously not for everyone tho!).
8. Anything you get new or used from Toyota will be fantastic. iirc they have a pretty great CPO program & really good lease deals as well. Although Honda is up there in terms of quality & features these days too.

Some things to think about:

1. What is your max budget?
2. Buy or lease?
3. How long do you want to keep the car for?
4. What's important to you? What features are "must-haves"? For example, my next car must have an EyeSight equivalent, especially with the new low-speed follow feature. Although I don't drive far, I spend upwards of 2 hours in traffic per day at times & that would be enormously beneficial for me. I'm also hooked on passive keyless entry, remote start, 3G features, etc., although that can be added to any car aftermarket with a Compustar or Viper system. 5-star safety is a must (I've been hit several times & am a big believer in crumple zones, airbags, seatbelts, etc.). Good visibility is a really nice feature. Comfort is a big feature...I fit really well in the Renegade & Mustang, for example, but disappointingly did not fit very well at all in the new Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (horrifically cramped for my height & long legs).

Currently on my list:

1. Ecoboost Mustang
2. Honda Ridgeline (redesigned 2nd-gen model, although it's on its first model year & I've already been burned buying glitchy first-year models!)
3. Colorado ZR2 (diesel or gas, love the aesthetics!)

Mix of requirements for me...I love love love AWD on my current vehicle; it has made snow driving completely painless. I'd have to get snow tires for the Mustang & be more careful about driving, for sure. I definitely want TACC, especially with LSF, but LSF is just starting to trickle down this year to normal-priced cars, so I'll have to wait another year or two to see in them in the vehicles I'm interested in. A truck would be awfully nice, especially since they're as comfy as cars these days (at least the new Ridgeline is!). I don't really ever want to buy a first-gen car again tho, so the Ridgeline is out until next year because of the redesign. My plan was to buy a car & keep it for 10 to 15 years, and there's no way I'll be ending 2017 with my pile of garbage Renegade, so now I have to figure out something new. Bah, cars! Haha.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,740
7,305
136
The FCA stories never cease. When we bought our 4Runner, we really wanted a Grand Cherokee. We thought it looked better, drove better, and had a much better interior...but I was scared off from previous empirical and anecdotal evidence of reliability. Every time I hear another story like this, it makes me happy with my choice. 66k on the 2013 4Runner with zero issues and only air filters, oil changes, and brakes (at 65k).

I wish I had listened to those stories. Every single person with a Jeep I knew IRL warned me off. In my Renegade thread, I brushed all of those off. Hindsight is 20/20. Again, some people get a perfect vehicle - but I didn't, and Jeep as a company has not stood behind their product. I don't mind getting a lemon - if you make it right, but their I2R rep made it clear to me that they have no intention of ever replacing or refunding my vehicle & are more than happy to keep sending me in for repairs (that don't fix anything) until my warranty expires (literally, their words). I'd imagine it's no different at any other car company, but this is the situation I've had to deal with & it's just not something I can recommend due to my own personal experience.

Which is a pity because I really love the car. So many cool features, fantastic in the snow, fits me perfectly. Bah!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,740
7,305
136
I don't need a 7-8 seater.

Edit: But I wish I did. It would be game over because I'd get a Pacifica Hybrid.

FYI - The Pacifica sits like a car inside, not like a van. HATED the new one. Lots of cool features, but other than being pretty expensive, that's what drove me nuts the most...I felt like I was sitting in my Civic again, not in a van. It was very weird.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,740
7,305
136
I'm thinking about throwing the Grand Cherokee into the mix. I really like the Durango too, but it's really bigger than I need so I think it'll stay off the list.

I test-drove the new Durango. It's pretty nice. Again, warnings against FCA cars first, but it was pretty nice & drives really nice. I liked it better than the AWD Charger, actually - throttle was more responsive.

I think at that size tho, probably look into an Explorer.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,740
7,305
136
Taking the time to test drive is a huge plus. Sometimes a car/suv just doesn't seem to fit. Some have huge blind spots, the seating in uncomfortable, they feel under powered when accelerating up to highway speed. Some are noisy, some lack headroom or they're a pain to get into and out of. All that being said i'll give a vote to a Honda CRV, Toyota 4Runner, and the Toyota RAV4. Just the fact that you're taking time and trouble to make a good choice is a positive indicator that you'll make the RIGHT choice for you. Good luck.

One tip there - if you have the time available, show up during a weekday when they're not busy, unannounced, and ask to go for a test-drive, then tell them you have another appointment (or have to go back to work off your lunchbreak or whatever). When I was car shopping for my Renegade last year, I wasted a lot of time because the goal of every salesman is to get you to buy a car off the lot that day. Going back inside, going into the office, getting the manager involved, it all sucks away your free time. It's okay to call ahead & schedule an appointment, but learning to say no to going to their office or desk is important because they'll just waste your time when you have other cars to test-drive & other stuff to do. I wasted a lot of my free time on the first handful of cars I test-drove before I figured out this trick.

Also, if you're doing a lot of online shopping with Truecar, car loan places, IRL interactions where they need your info, etc., just setup a dummy Gmail address & use the Google Voice number so you don't get spammed endless. A year later and I'm STILL getting random emails about buying cars lol.
 

Herr Kutz

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,545
242
106
A few notes, as I've test-driven the bulk of this list:

1. The new Civic is amazing, especially on the tech side of things - you get TACC with LSF, which is radar cruise (Traffic-Aware Cruise Control) that keeps you a set distance away from the car ahead of you (aka Adaptive cruise control), along with stop & go traffic support (LSF = low-speed follow), so you can do the radar cruise thing in traffic jams too. Glorious feature. Also, the Accord is nice, but when I leased my '13 Civic, I went in for an Accord & liked the Civic so much better that I walked out with the Civic.

I test drove a Touring Civic right a couple weeks after they hit dealer lots. Overall I liked it but the deal breaker was the loud road noise. I also did not like the throttle tip in although that is something I'd likely get used to.

2. I've driven both the V6 & 4-cylinder Mustangs. The 4-cylinder is way more fun thanks to the turbo. The 6 is solid, but I really really enjoyed the 4-cylinder.

I love the features and power for the price, but I feel like I would regret buying a Mustang a few weeks after getting one. Such a touch decision.

3. If you're going to get an automatic Mustang, you may want to do it this year. Ford is switching over to a 10-speed automatic next year. I have yet to drive an automatic transmission above 6 gears that I like. I've driven 8 & 9-speed transmissions and I hate them. Crappy response & poor throttle mapping. Lag. Yuck. I haven't tested Ford's 10-speed, but I don't imagine it will be much better.

4. If you're looking at the Colorado, have you seen the new ZR2 model? Oooooooh man! http://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/15/2017-chevy-colorado-zr2-diesel-off-road-multimatic-spool-valve/

I've heard about it but I don't do hardcore offroading so its capabilities would be lost on me.

5. I'm a huge fan of the Forester. My wife has one with EyeSight. Absolutely fantastic. By far the best CVT I've driven. EyeSight is wonderful if you drive highway. Fantastic visibility. Super peppy throttle. Not luxury by any means, very utilitarian design, but feels like it will last forever. I didn't like the Outback nearly as much, didn't feel as roomy, but my dealership never gets in the 3.6's & I suspect it would be a lot more enjoyable with that engine in it. But you can't go wrong with the 4-cylinder Forester. For 2014 & newer, one of the best cars out there imo. I know what you mean about the practicality image, but after a few weeks you'll quit caring because it drives & rides so nice, is so easy to get around in thanks to the visibility, EyeSight works so awesome, etc. I really should have gotten a second one instead of my Jeep.

Yeah I actually meant the gay image. It's still near the top of the list though. I've taken my mom's 2014 on a few semi-long trips and do like it.

6. Haven't been impressed with the glitches or support from Jeep. Got pretty burned on my current ride (Renegade) & it has really turned me off to FCA vehicles. Just my experience. Lots of people get them & have zero issues.
7. Kia makes really great cars. Not on your list, but they are pretty fantastic. Their new van is amazing. Love their Soul, which is now available in Turbo (design-wise, obviously not for everyone tho!).

I've never been a big fan of the Soul, aesthetically anyway. And since the last girl I was going out with drove one and they make me think of her it's a total no go.

None of their other vehicles really speak to me other than the Sorento. Maybe the Niro will spark some interest.


8. Anything you get new or used from Toyota will be fantastic. iirc they have a pretty great CPO program & really good lease deals as well. Although Honda is up there in terms of quality & features these days too.

Some things to think about:

1. What is your max budget?

Probably whatever a new 3.6r Outback Limited w/ eyesight costs which I think is the most expensive vehicle on my list. I had gotten a 2016 model down to like ~33k new before TT&L and travel.


2. Buy or lease?

Buy.

3. How long do you want to keep the car for?

Probably at least 10 years. Obviously life events could change that (e.g. if I get married and needed something different).

4. What's important to you? What features are "must-haves"? For example, my next car must have an EyeSight equivalent, especially with the new low-speed follow feature. Although I don't drive far, I spend upwards of 2 hours in traffic per day at times & that would be enormously beneficial for me. I'm also hooked on passive keyless entry, remote start, 3G features, etc., although that can be added to any car aftermarket with a Compustar or Viper system. 5-star safety is a must (I've been hit several times & am a big believer in crumple zones, airbags, seatbelts, etc.). Good visibility is a really nice feature. Comfort is a big feature...I fit really well in the Renegade & Mustang, for example, but disappointingly did not fit very well at all in the new Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (horrifically cramped for my height & long legs).

I don't need push button start, remote start, or keyless entry. An Eyesight system would be nice but isn't required. I used to spend around 2 hours per day (~75 miles roundtrip) commuting for 4 years. Right now that is down to 35 minutes per day (~10 miles round trip), but I don't see my commute staying that short for more than a couple years or so. I still drive a lot since I take frequent road trips so a quiet, comfortable ride is very high on the wants list.

Currently on my list:

1. Ecoboost Mustang
2. Honda Ridgeline (redesigned 2nd-gen model, although it's on its first model year & I've already been burned buying glitchy first-year models!)

I test drove one and wasn't impressed with the amount of wind noise coming into the cabin. Otherwise it was nice but my is it pricy unless you get the base model. Doesn't look that great either.

3. Colorado ZR2 (diesel or gas, love the aesthetics!)

Mix of requirements for me...I love love love AWD on my current vehicle; it has made snow driving completely painless. I'd have to get snow tires for the Mustang & be more careful about driving, for sure. I definitely want TACC, especially with LSF, but LSF is just starting to trickle down this year to normal-priced cars, so I'll have to wait another year or two to see in them in the vehicles I'm interested in. A truck would be awfully nice, especially since they're as comfy as cars these days (at least the new Ridgeline is!). I don't really ever want to buy a first-gen car again tho, so the Ridgeline is out until next year because of the redesign. My plan was to buy a car & keep it for 10 to 15 years, and there's no way I'll be ending 2017 with my pile of garbage Renegade, so now I have to figure out something new. Bah, cars! Haha.

Responses in bold.
 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
FYI that just means you're old. But yes, Cadillac has been working hard to get rid of the "old man" image. I guess it's working?
And as long as young people have the income to afford and the desire to drive a domestic luxury car with uncomfortable seats and a stiff ride, Cadillac will do very well.

They've lost the old men as well as the old women. Losing a demographic is fairly easy. Gaining them back if the need arises is a long and arduous process with no guarantee of positive results.

I've had four Corvettes in my lifetime. I loved every one of them but the one thing I found out about them all was that there was no way to truly have fun driving them legally on public roads. Sport suspension on a $60K to $100K+ car? Where do you take advantage of that without being a danger to yourself and more importantly, others?
 

Herr Kutz

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,545
242
106
Would a Prius make sense for you at all? Their new Prime plug-in model is even cheaper than the regular Prius with the tax incentive.

I park on the street so I can't do a plug in and you lose way too much trunk space with the prime. I'd look into the volt if I could do a plug in. I did take a 2016 Prius on a test drive and I couldn't get over the center mounted speedo, the road noise was a bit much, and it is pretty ugly. I heard they are great for camping though since you can turn the climate control on while you sleep and the engine will only come on for a few minutes every 30 minutes or so to charge the battery.
 

Herr Kutz

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,545
242
106
Seeing some 16 Malibu LTs with the 2.0 in the 20-21k range and Premiers in the 22-23k range. The 91 Octane requirement is having me rethink keeping it on the list though.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Seeing some 16 Malibu LTs with the 2.0 in the 20-21k range and Premiers in the 22-23k range. The 91 Octane requirement is having me rethink keeping it on the list though.
It's suggested, not required. I have run nothing but 87 and I've never heard even a hint of a knock.