Finally going to start carrying.

[IGBT]

..I always wanted a AMT BackUp in .45 I have a .380 version but like the idea of .45 in a similar sized package.

 

[warmodder]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: warmodder

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Kazaam
so going to the mall and buying gifts and anything else you need is not using common sense and avoiding trouble? i wouldnt ever carry a gun but it definitely seems places that were safe no longer are.

I've yet to see a gun fight at the mall. Honestly, what are the odds on that anyway considering I spend maybe 2-3 hours a year at the mall? In fact, I've yet to read a story about a shooting at the mall that I "frequent." Hell, even if you lived there you'd probably never be exposed to gunfire.

I'm not saying that things don't happen but the odds really are in your favor and the likeliness of you doing something positive with your gun while armed are slim to none. Not to mention the huge responsibility of carrying a gun to begin with. I'm not entirely convinced that that's something CCW holders really grasp.

Again, living in fear isn't part of my life.

And yet all statistics prove beyond a doubt exacly the opposite.

What positive externalities could possibly come out of carrying a gun? Does your model shoot candy canes and snowflakes? Yes in very slim circumstances you may be able to save some lives, but not many will be placed in that situation. The chance for negatives--be them by mistake, on purpose, whatever--is infinitely greater than you being in a position to cause a benefit.

And yet all statistics prove beyond a doubt exactly the opposite.

I realize it's causing you cognitive dissonance, but there is no support that lawful carry is a danger. At all. There is ample support that lawful carry is used to beneficial ends predominately. There's simply no argument there, it's absolute supportable fact. Until that is agreed on and understood (and truly accepted) there is no reason to argue further.

Can I have some, it's news to me?

You don't need a statistic to say that a gun has potential for danger. It's whole purpose is to freakin' kill/maim! That purpose is legitimate in certain situations, but for the majority of practical circumstances it is an unnecessary source of danger should it fall into the wrong hands or otherwise. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's why it's called the Salvation Army...

 

[Hacp]

Go back to Mexico you gun lovers.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: warmodder

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Kazaam
so going to the mall and buying gifts and anything else you need is not using common sense and avoiding trouble? i wouldnt ever carry a gun but it definitely seems places that were safe no longer are.

I've yet to see a gun fight at the mall. Honestly, what are the odds on that anyway considering I spend maybe 2-3 hours a year at the mall? In fact, I've yet to read a story about a shooting at the mall that I "frequent." Hell, even if you lived there you'd probably never be exposed to gunfire.

I'm not saying that things don't happen but the odds really are in your favor and the likeliness of you doing something positive with your gun while armed are slim to none. Not to mention the huge responsibility of carrying a gun to begin with. I'm not entirely convinced that that's something CCW holders really grasp.

Again, living in fear isn't part of my life.

And yet all statistics prove beyond a doubt exacly the opposite.

What positive externalities could possibly come out of carrying a gun? Does your model shoot candy canes and snowflakes? Yes in very slim circumstances you may be able to save some lives, but not many will be placed in that situation. The chance for negatives--be them by mistake, on purpose, whatever--is infinitely greater than you being in a position to cause a benefit.

And yet all statistics prove beyond a doubt exactly the opposite.

I realize it's causing you cognitive dissonance, but there is no support that lawful carry is a danger. At all. There is ample support that lawful carry is used to beneficial ends predominately. There's simply no argument there, it's absolute supportable fact. Until that is agreed on and understood (and truly accepted) there is no reason to argue further.

I think if this discussion is going to continue, both sides need to start providing unbiased statistics. Everyone is saying that their side has undisputable facts while the other is biased and slanted, without actually backing it up. I vote that either it's ended or furthered beyond your run of the mill pissing match.

Again, too lazy to do the research myself.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
I guess I don't understand why pontifex or others are irritated by the anti-gun posts? This is ATOT, so naturally you can expect this kind of thing. If you want praise all around, then I'm sure that Soldier of Fortune has a forum out there. Debate and discussion is good for everybody.

Personally, I'm in a weird position lately where I'm pro-gun ownership, and anti-concealed weapons. This is a combination of personal/political ideology and common sense. I think that the citizens of a country should be armed should they ever need to rise up against an unjust government. That of course is a moot point now, as most of the armed citizenry of this country have proven that they're easily manipulated with secondary religious/social issues while those they elect are treading on those freedoms they supposedly cherish. I also think it's impossible to ignore the statistics behind carrying weapons, which others have pointed out. I'm not going to march in the streets protesting concealed weapons or anything, but there's no denying that those people are a danger to themselves and others (specifically their families). They obviously don't feel that way, but that's the false sense of power that a firearm grants you.

Finally I couldn't agree more with JulesMaximus, pointing out that it takes a cynical and fearful mindset to feel the need to carry. Hell, maybe that .001% chance that you could need it someday makes it completely worth carrying - that's obviously a subjective interpretation. For me though, I don't want to live my life in that kind of fear, or allow myself to hold the people around me in such low regard. I may be wrong, but I'll err on the side of warm and fuzzy. I have good friends who are the exact opposite of me on this issue and carry everywhere they go. All of them are paranoid, hold their countrymen in very low regard, and have hero complexes (that they don't admit to in public). I sure as hell don't feel safer knowing that they are carrying.

So what's the chance an airbag will save your life? Probably around .5%, maybe less. Does that mean we shouldn't have airbags? They also can kill infants if people use them improperly!!!

AIRBAGS KILL BABIES OUTLAW THEM!

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: thepd7
The ignorance is strong in this thread.

If any CCL holder tried to pull a gun while a mugger had a gun to the back of their heads then they are morons and are going to get shot. NO ONE here is saying pull a gun on someone who has the drop on you, at least no one reasonable.

There are quite a few cases where someone with a CCL has either given their life and helped save many others or taken out the threat. Wiki the Tyler courthouse shooting. Or the example I just used with the religious organizations in Colorado. In both instances the CCL holders saved many lives, and one brave man gave his life.

The funny thing is the people being ignorant here are the ones who think that anyone who would possibly carry a concealed weapon is a cowboy or lives in a small town. They have obviously not met a responsible gun owner nor have they actually dealt with firearms for an extended period of time.

Generalization ftw.

"The funny thing is the people being ignorant"

"They have obviously not met "

GENERALIZATION FOR THE FUCKING WIN.

Yeah, someone who doesn't share YOUR opinion is obviously ignorant or automatically thinks everyone is a cowboy.

It's called a hypocrite. Look it up asshole.

Ok, so a guy in a mall opens fire with an AK. How many CCL's should pull their weapon and fire at the perp in a public place with innocent people walking around. Who decides to take the shot? How many of them take a single shot? Who hits first and where do the stray bullets go. Who says you're a great marksman? Are you trained to know when/where and how good of a shot you are? Should everyone around trust in you or someone else to take a shot and do the right thing in the right situation?

Mine's not generalization. If you say: "All Black People Steal Stuff" and I say "No you are ignorant for believing that anyone who believes that obviously hasn't met a good black person" then I am NOT being a hypocrite for not sharing your opinion and for calling you ignorant.

And thanks for proving my point about anti-gun people not having dealt with firearms for an extended period of time with your babble about the mall situation.

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: destrekor

concealed carry normally required classes and training.
in the states where you can get a permit without classes and training.. well, that's wrong. There should be proper training, I definitely agree. But that's only a problem with the method of issuing permits. Don't block the possibility of getting a permit just because some jurisdictions hand them out like candy. Change the methods.

I said I'm for carrying if it's carried for the right reasons. Using the excuse that you could stop someone with an AK in a crowded mall is the problem. I don't think they teach or advise that in the classes You're endangering lives at that point.

Heaven forbid I should endanger the lives of the people around me with my responsible gun use WHILE SOMEONE IS FUCKING SHOOTING AT THEM WITH AN ASSAULT RIFLE.


In closing, you can argue that the risks outweigh the benefits all you want. But you cannot reasonably argue that there is no place for responsible gun use when it comes to the extraordinary and unfortunate disasters we have seen take place over the last few years (that are growing in severity I might add).

Case and point: Tyler Courthouse Shooting

Tell me that Mark Allen Wilson didn't save a) the lives of the 2 cops wounded on the ground and b) at least a few others by buying time by shooting and hitting the gunman, sacrificing his own life to attract the gunman's attention.

If you can say he didn't save lives or that there is no reason for responsible gun owners to be able to carry then I really don't know what to say.



To those of you comparing us to other nations with gun laws: that's not a valid comparison, America is unique in it's population and layout. The nations you are trying to compare to are mostly if not all European, if you want a valid comparison don't look to them.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: thepd7
Blah Blah Blah

1. There is a law AGAINST having babies in the front seat near an airbag. It's a LAW to NOT use them. You can't use that as a defense against a law allowing you to carry around a deadly weapon. That's just a freaking stupid argument. I'm not surprised though.

2. For some reason you have this illusion that I'm anti-gun, which I've told you several times I'm NOT. But thanks for proving MY point that pro-gun people are apparently all ignorant and hypocrites. Mass Generalization again, FOR THE WIN.

3. Tyler Courthouse Shooting - have you even READ the story?? Holy sh1t.

Mark Allen Wilson opened fire on a suspect during a police shootout. He ended up getting KILLED because he interfered with the police!!! FURTHERMORE

After over 116 rounds had been fired, Arroyo attempted to flee Tyler in his truck with a number of police officers in pursuit. The pursuit went from the streets of Tyler to the freeway. Here, Deputy Sheriff John Smith used his patrol car to ram Arroyo?s truck, while firing out of his window at Arroyo. Arroyo stopped to fire upon Smith, who at this point was out of ammo. As Smith sped away to avoid the fire from Arroyo, Sgt. Rusty Jacks fired five shots from his Colt AR-15 rifle, one of which struck Arroyo in the back of the head, killing him instantly and ending the battle.

Yes, Mark Allen SAVED LIVES by shooting a guy who then was able to engage police in a high speed chase and endanger more lives. The POLICE OFFICER SHOT HIM WITH AN AR-15 rifle.

WTF did Mark do than get killed???

Great job Mark! You get a gold star for your CCL Rambo skills!!!


In closing: Idiot, I'm not against CCL. I'm against people thinking they are Rambo with their CCL. Mark got into a situation that was NOT endangering his life...THAT is why he got killed.


Have a merry christmas and enjoy yourself. That's the last I have to say on CCL nuts.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Go back to Mexico you gun lovers.

wtf?

 

[0roo0roo]

carry it john mcclain style.
duct tape baby!

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What kind of handgun/holster/belt? I have a number of different handguns and some fine leather holsters for them. Of course, I can't carry legally where I live, but that doesn't stop me from being prepared.

Kind of sucks to live somewhere that the government doesn't trust you enough, doesn't it? How can you be prepared when the people you run into that are going to cause you trouble are actually carrying a gun because they don't care what the law says? Nice false sense of security you live under. Being prepared in your case means either staying home or avoiding all areas where you might run into a problem. Unfortunately that could be just about anywhere these days.

You know, statistically, you're more likely to kill a loved one with the gun you own than someone trying to harm you.

Plus, if you do shoot someone that's trying to harm you in some way, only a fraction of those incidents involve "bodily" harm, so deadly force would be unwarranted. If you shot or killed someone in that circumstance, you'd be charged with manslaughter and get prison time.

I agree with the fact that if you're in an area where you feel so scared that you need to carry a gun for protection, you're not in the right area. There really aren't many places like this in the US.

Are you statistically more likely to save your own ass with the use of a gun than injuring a loved on?

Your statement is either a play on statistics or pure bullshit. Guns are used millions of times a year to prevent rape, murder, robbery etc.. without EVER FIRING A SHOT. People with CCL statistically NEVER commit gun/violent crimes or even felonies. Very FEW (statistically almost 0) people are killed a year in accidental shootings.

If your worried about accidents you should devote your time to swimming pools. They are far deadlier than a gun in the hands of a person with a CCL (or their homes etc.).

All I have to go on is my wife's 15 years of police dept. experience, where she would have to go to a family shooting 2-3 times a week and deal with shot girlfriends, kids, dogs, relatives, neighbors....you name it. Twice in her 15 years did she go to a call where someone actually scared someone away with a gun they owned legally (one was a burglary, the other was an attack outside of a bar).

It still breaks my heart when I think about a 5 year old boy back in 2002 that took a .338 out of his dad's suit coat that was hanging on a kitchen chair and shot his 2 year old sister. This guy was licensed to carry it, and the moron decided he needed a gun at a wedding he went to...then forgot to put it away when he got home.

You can do what you want...it's a free country, but when you give someone the ability to carry around a device that you can simply point at someone and take their life, I firmly believe it's too much of a resonsibility and there's no need for it. Guns for sport- fine. Guns for hunting- fine. Guns for protection- they do more harm than good.

I'm curious, how many times did your wife shoot you?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What kind of handgun/holster/belt? I have a number of different handguns and some fine leather holsters for them. Of course, I can't carry legally where I live, but that doesn't stop me from being prepared.

Kind of sucks to live somewhere that the government doesn't trust you enough, doesn't it? How can you be prepared when the people you run into that are going to cause you trouble are actually carrying a gun because they don't care what the law says? Nice false sense of security you live under. Being prepared in your case means either staying home or avoiding all areas where you might run into a problem. Unfortunately that could be just about anywhere these days.

What a bunch of crap as if everybody needs to carry a gun just in case.
Fuck, Ive been around for a while now and I was NEVER in a situation where i might need a friking gun. Where the fuck do you people live?

Maybe it is that dangerous to live in the US and if it is so, i am glad I don't live there.

DUDE if you left your house more than to grocery shop you may know the answer.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What kind of handgun/holster/belt? I have a number of different handguns and some fine leather holsters for them. Of course, I can't carry legally where I live, but that doesn't stop me from being prepared.

Kind of sucks to live somewhere that the government doesn't trust you enough, doesn't it? How can you be prepared when the people you run into that are going to cause you trouble are actually carrying a gun because they don't care what the law says? Nice false sense of security you live under. Being prepared in your case means either staying home or avoiding all areas where you might run into a problem. Unfortunately that could be just about anywhere these days.

How about, not living in fear...

I've lived in this state for almost 20 years and lived in Los Angeles during the LA riots in the early 90s. Honestly, the best way to stay out of trouble isn't to carry a gun. It's using common sense and avoiding trouble to begin with.

Actually, I really love living here. I'd never move away from the state I love based on gun laws or concealed carry laws. IMO only a complete idiot would do that.

you are probably flying under the radar. who is going to rob a dude that has to ride a bike to work.

 

[alkemyst]

For the OP

 

[BoomerD]

"you're gonna shoot your eye out with that, kid."

 

[Finalnight]

To the OP I say welcome to the club, I myself have been carrying for the past 3 months and have been quite pleased with how my holstering system has worked. I pocket carry a 9mm and it fits perfectly in all but 2 of my pants.

 

[Finalnight]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
You know, statistically, you're more likely to kill a loved one with the gun you own than someone trying to harm you.

You know, statistically, you're more likely to be killed by someone without a carry permit than someone with a carry permit.

Originally posted by: Hacp
Go back to Mexico you gun lovers.

Um, mexico bans anything greater than a .380 ACP.

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
And what strikes me as even funnier is that typically when you get people talking about carrying guns, it's always in flyover states. I guess someone has to guard that pie softly cooling on the windowsill.

Wow, the astounding arrogance of your statement amazes me. Flyover states? Pies in the windowsill? I have heard some pretty close-minded statements out of Californians before, as I travel there every year, but your's takes the cake.

If you would like to see some danger in "flyover country", try south chicago, north minneapolis, east st. louis, gary, central milwaukee.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What kind of handgun/holster/belt? I have a number of different handguns and some fine leather holsters for them. Of course, I can't carry legally where I live, but that doesn't stop me from being prepared.

Kind of sucks to live somewhere that the government doesn't trust you enough, doesn't it? How can you be prepared when the people you run into that are going to cause you trouble are actually carrying a gun because they don't care what the law says? Nice false sense of security you live under. Being prepared in your case means either staying home or avoiding all areas where you might run into a problem. Unfortunately that could be just about anywhere these days.

You know, statistically, you're more likely to kill a loved one with the gun you own than someone trying to harm you.

Plus, if you do shoot someone that's trying to harm you in some way, only a fraction of those incidents involve "bodily" harm, so deadly force would be unwarranted. If you shot or killed someone in that circumstance, you'd be charged with manslaughter and get prison time.

I agree with the fact that if you're in an area where you feel so scared that you need to carry a gun for protection, you're not in the right area. There really aren't many places like this in the US.

Are you statistically more likely to save your own ass with the use of a gun than injuring a loved on?

Your statement is either a play on statistics or pure bullshit. Guns are used millions of times a year to prevent rape, murder, robbery etc.. without EVER FIRING A SHOT. People with CCL statistically NEVER commit gun/violent crimes or even felonies. Very FEW (statistically almost 0) people are killed a year in accidental shootings.

If your worried about accidents you should devote your time to swimming pools. They are far deadlier than a gun in the hands of a person with a CCL (or their homes etc.).

All I have to go on is my wife's 15 years of police dept. experience, where she would have to go to a family shooting 2-3 times a week and deal with shot girlfriends, kids, dogs, relatives, neighbors....you name it. Twice in her 15 years did she go to a call where someone actually scared someone away with a gun they owned legally (one was a burglary, the other was an attack outside of a bar).

It still breaks my heart when I think about a 5 year old boy back in 2002 that took a .338 out of his dad's suit coat that was hanging on a kitchen chair and shot his 2 year old sister. This guy was licensed to carry it, and the moron decided he needed a gun at a wedding he went to...then forgot to put it away when he got home.

You can do what you want...it's a free country, but when you give someone the ability to carry around a device that you can simply point at someone and take their life, I firmly believe it's too much of a resonsibility and there's no need for it. Guns for sport- fine. Guns for hunting- fine. Guns for protection- they do more harm than good.

I'm curious, how many times did your wife shoot you?

Well, the fact that she didn't carry her gun unless she was on duty helped keep that at a solid "0".

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Just a little addition. If I didn't have a carry permit I would be dead right now, instead of some hopped up, waste-of-space druggie. I've never had to use force since then, but if I hadn't been carrying, I wouldn't be here at all. Screw your statistics and your "feel-good" beliefs.

Works for me. :thumbsup:

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Do you have any common sense at all? Chances are if a madman with AK starts shooting in a mall people will be running away, not toward him. So if there are any CCL's around most likely they will have a clean shot at him without any bystanders around.

LikeLinus' point is irrelevent anyway. Would you rather the AKman be shooting the place up with no resistance or have a CCL take a chance at bringing him down?

Geeze, thats a tough one. :roll:

Geeze, here's a tough one...show me one mall that doesn't have armed security or security vehicles covering the lot.

I can't say I've ever been to a Mall that didn't have off duty police officers patroling the lot. Not to mention they increased force during the holiday season.

Well, Geeze [x3 now], security at Omaha mall was obviously quick enough to arrive at the scene before he had a chance to kill nine.... NOT

I guess all the CCL people got to him first!

So now you're pointing out that there weren't enough CCL folks around to stop it?

Are you serious?

 

[Excelsior]

Is it really worth the hassle and responsibility of carrying a weapon on your person all the time?

If one doesn't mind the responsibility and hassle, they should be allowed to.

Do we really live in a society where that level of fear is warranted?

I'd be afraid of the society that didn't allow CCL.

Carrying a gun is serious business and I'm not convinced that those who have been granted this privilege really understand the ramifications and responsibilities of the task.

I am more worried about those who are carrying and have not been granted this privilege.

Hell, there are cops who aren't responsible enough to carry.

Then why worry about the CCL's who you deem not responsible enough to carry?

 

[alkemyst]

most people that carry do it for the 'coolness' or thinking they are some badass. They get so caught up with the best gun, holster, etc; yet they do nothing that gives them a need scurrying straight from home to work and back again.

Many of my friends that carry are on motorcycles until the wee hours of the mornings out in some of the more trendy and 'hostile' downtown areas. I know very few that are carrying into their office each day, although some do.

Nothing makes a situation more ackward than someone giving a hug and asking 'What's that?'.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What kind of handgun/holster/belt? I have a number of different handguns and some fine leather holsters for them. Of course, I can't carry legally where I live, but that doesn't stop me from being prepared.

Kind of sucks to live somewhere that the government doesn't trust you enough, doesn't it? How can you be prepared when the people you run into that are going to cause you trouble are actually carrying a gun because they don't care what the law says? Nice false sense of security you live under. Being prepared in your case means either staying home or avoiding all areas where you might run into a problem. Unfortunately that could be just about anywhere these days.

You know, statistically, you're more likely to kill a loved one with the gun you own than someone trying to harm you.

Plus, if you do shoot someone that's trying to harm you in some way, only a fraction of those incidents involve "bodily" harm, so deadly force would be unwarranted. If you shot or killed someone in that circumstance, you'd be charged with manslaughter and get prison time.

I agree with the fact that if you're in an area where you feel so scared that you need to carry a gun for protection, you're not in the right area. There really aren't many places like this in the US.

Are you statistically more likely to save your own ass with the use of a gun than injuring a loved on?

Your statement is either a play on statistics or pure bullshit. Guns are used millions of times a year to prevent rape, murder, robbery etc.. without EVER FIRING A SHOT. People with CCL statistically NEVER commit gun/violent crimes or even felonies. Very FEW (statistically almost 0) people are killed a year in accidental shootings.

If your worried about accidents you should devote your time to swimming pools. They are far deadlier than a gun in the hands of a person with a CCL (or their homes etc.).

All I have to go on is my wife's 15 years of police dept. experience, where she would have to go to a family shooting 2-3 times a week and deal with shot girlfriends, kids, dogs, relatives, neighbors....you name it. Twice in her 15 years did she go to a call where someone actually scared someone away with a gun they owned legally (one was a burglary, the other was an attack outside of a bar).

It still breaks my heart when I think about a 5 year old boy back in 2002 that took a .338 out of his dad's suit coat that was hanging on a kitchen chair and shot his 2 year old sister. This guy was licensed to carry it, and the moron decided he needed a gun at a wedding he went to...then forgot to put it away when he got home.

You can do what you want...it's a free country, but when you give someone the ability to carry around a device that you can simply point at someone and take their life, I firmly believe it's too much of a resonsibility and there's no need for it. Guns for sport- fine. Guns for hunting- fine. Guns for protection- they do more harm than good.

I'm curious, how many times did your wife shoot you?

Well, the fact that she didn't carry her gun unless she was on duty helped keep that at a solid "0".

She left her gun at the station?

And even if she only carried on duty, I can still only assume you never encountered her on duty, otherwise you would have been shot. Also, how many innocent children did her evil gun cause her to shoot while she was on duty, carrying a gun?

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What kind of handgun/holster/belt? I have a number of different handguns and some fine leather holsters for them. Of course, I can't carry legally where I live, but that doesn't stop me from being prepared.

Kind of sucks to live somewhere that the government doesn't trust you enough, doesn't it? How can you be prepared when the people you run into that are going to cause you trouble are actually carrying a gun because they don't care what the law says? Nice false sense of security you live under. Being prepared in your case means either staying home or avoiding all areas where you might run into a problem. Unfortunately that could be just about anywhere these days.

THe gun culture in the US is lame if you ask me. Other countries don't have it, and their homicide rates are way down. You're more likely to get owned by your own gun than shoot someone with it.

Not that I'm against people owning guns...I'm just against the idea that you're safter carrying one.

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
You can argue what ifs all day long but the bottom line is this: It is probable that you will live your entire life and never be witness to a situation in which you could use a gun to prevent a crime...and even if you were in a situation in which you could have used a gun to prevent a crime the chances that you would be armed and act responsibly are probably greater than the aforementioned scenario. Is it really worth the hassle and responsibility of carrying a weapon on your person all the time? Do we really live in a society where that level of fear is warranted? Do we want to?

Carrying a gun is serious business and I'm not convinced that those who have been granted this privilege really understand the ramifications and responsibilities of the task. I've carried a gun...illegally...Yeah, I'm a legal gun owner who has broken the law and carried a concealed weapon...and for damned good reason, but I'm still not convinced that those who have them are responsible enough to carry. Hell, there are cops who aren't responsible enough to carry. What makes you or me any better than them?

Well put.

90% of the gun owners/collectors I know, do not carry; myself included.
It is just too much of a liability.

The chances of you getting yourself in trouble with the gun are much much higher than the chances of being witness to a crime against yourself or others, and preventing it with the firearm.