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Finally going to start carrying.

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Originally posted by: SandInMyShoes
It's always possible, but I think the odds are in my favor, since I hear about a lot more unstopped shooting rampages than about CCW holders getting killed by other CCW holders 😉

At this time I don't have the training and expertise to nail a moving target at 25-50feet *under pressure*, but I'd definitely do some training before I'd carry.
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Just do what the police do: empty the entire mag at the target as rapidly as possible, a couple are bound to hit home
 
Originally posted by: pontifex
I've had my concealed carry license for a long time now but have never carried. I really didn't have a holster and belt that were made for it.

I ordered a $90 leather belt that's handmade for having heavy items attached to it and a leather holster made for concealed carry.

With all the shit going on lately, its definitely time to start carrying.
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how about pics when you get them in?

and what things going on lately?!
 
The ignorance is strong in this thread.

If any CCL holder tried to pull a gun while a mugger had a gun to the back of their heads then they are morons and are going to get shot. NO ONE here is saying pull a gun on someone who has the drop on you, at least no one reasonable.

There are quite a few cases where someone with a CCL has either given their life and helped save many others or taken out the threat. Wiki the Tyler courthouse shooting. Or the example I just used with the religious organizations in Colorado. In both instances the CCL holders saved many lives, and one brave man gave his life.

The funny thing is the people being ignorant here are the ones who think that anyone who would possibly carry a concealed weapon is a cowboy or lives in a small town. They have obviously not met a responsible gun owner nor have they actually dealt with firearms for an extended period of time.

Generalization ftw.
 
Originally posted by: thepd7
The ignorance is strong in this thread.

If any CCL holder tried to pull a gun while a mugger had a gun to the back of their heads then they are morons and are going to get shot. NO ONE here is saying pull a gun on someone who has the drop on you, at least no one reasonable.

There are quite a few cases where someone with a CCL has either given their life and helped save many others or taken out the threat. Wiki the Tyler courthouse shooting. Or the example I just used with the religious organizations in Colorado. In both instances the CCL holders saved many lives, and one brave man gave his life.

The funny thing is the people being ignorant here are the ones who think that anyone who would possibly carry a concealed weapon is a cowboy or lives in a small town. They have obviously not met a responsible gun owner nor have they actually dealt with firearms for an extended period of time.

Generalization ftw.
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:thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Originally posted by: Kazaam
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: Kazaam
so going to the mall and buying gifts and anything else you need is not using common sense and avoiding trouble? i wouldnt ever carry a gun but it definitely seems places that were safe no longer are.
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Wait, you'd pull a weapon on someone who is trying to rob you for xmas gifts? I'd give them all the gifts and do as they say. You pulling a gun is much safer and starting a gun fight in a public place = safety!
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when some guy whips out an ak47 and starts shooting everyone thats not really robbing...
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right, cause Mr. Hero, who is going to stand there and shoot it out with his little concealed carry against a wacko with an assault rifle, is going to have a better chance of surviving that one-in-a-trillion occurrence than someone who drops everything and runs.

seriously, you people display classic symptoms of schizophrenia. and then you guys bring up the argument of "crazy people carry guns!" all i can say, is yes, you're absolutely right. they most definitely do.
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if you know how to shoot and how to maneuver, it's not hard to take down some idiot who is carrying an ak-47. Guns are not hard to shoot, specially rifles with their general accuracy and lack of recoil.. however, knowing how to shoot and use tactics are two non-related things, and tactics will almost always prevail.

a guy in a mall with an ak-47 knows he is going to die in the end, and is trying to rack up more kills than 1. He isn't using any tactics than "shoot them first, then me when cornered".
how about, a person with a concealed carry (most malls don't allow concealed carry in the first place) who knows how to carry out good tactics, can likely get a good position and take out the person carrying a semi-auto, or even an auto. Most of those people are jackasses and are not trained, and are rather easy to take down, but since nobody is allowed to carry their own pieces anymore, in a country that is supposed to allow that, it's gotten rather easy for these jackasses to rack up 10 or even 20 kills before taking themselves out. Me? If I saw something like that going down in my mall, and I have a concealed weapon, damn straight I am going to shoot now, ask questions later. I am all about civic duty, and I say, even if I face court and a jury, civic duty and protection, especially if through a legal concealed carry, is going to prevail over some bullshit case brought against me. I'll do what it takes, crawl behind a water fountain, Dell kiosk, through the exit doors of a general store that lead to a different common area of the mall.. whatever, I'll get myself into a position that the gunmen isn't aware of and where I still have a shot. Obviously it needs to be close so I can get a shot in hopefully the first shot, doesn't even need to be lethal, as long as it takes him down. I'd prefer not to kill the guy, as that was his plan and would be too damned easy. Get him in the gut or leg, where he has a chance of living, get him knocked down, so I can run up, pistol whip him across the forehead or even nose and break it, and get him secured and weaponless.

and before you question me doing that.. if I were not cornered in a mall, and I was weaponless.. I'd still find a way to accomplish the overall task, or get shot trying. Of course, if some gunmen had a gun pointing at a group of people, and I was one of them, and we were essentially cornered.. my options are far less ranged and may not have any options but to sit there or be killed without accomplishing a damned thing.


I fully support concealed carry, because if someone wants to kill someone or wants to carry a weapon, they are going to, no matter if the law supports them. I have another year before I can get a permit, and if I can afford a good pistol I will probably get one, and most definitely once I graduate (on campus, it doesn't do too good since even an individual with a permit cannot legally carry on school grounds). But I definitely support the idea of someone legally carrying a weapon, because at least its legal.. all the crimes committed with firearms are almost always done with an illegally carried firearm. If I were to have a permit, it would be for the peace of mind that I could protect myself legally, but more for the idea that I can also offer my services to those around me. I know full well, that a single gunmen attempting to rob me on the street, is not going to get me to pull my pistol out. Why? That's asking for death if the person carrying the firearm has any balls behind the threat.. most don't, but I don't really want to test that theory.
 
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: jndietz
I will tell you guys its very different when something crazy happens in the town you live in. It makes you rethink some things.

To those of you who have never had anything "crazy" happen, I hope it never happens in your town, and if it does, I hope you aren't involved. But to those where a lot of crime and general Von Maur killer-kids are, then a gun definitely helps you feel at least a little better. Like someone said in the thread, the best way to stay out of trouble is to not get into it in the first place. But, sometimes, you don't have any control over it.

pontiflex, what kind of gun did you get? I am interested in getting a 9mm pistol.
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In your house, I understand.

Walking around the gun?? No need. I work in Detroit (US most dangerous city by the FBI) and I feel no need to carry a gun. Where do you live/work that is so dangerous?
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Detroit is a large city, both by population and land size.
I can say I feel perfectly safe living in Toledo, OH.. but I don't live anywhere within walking distance of a place I feel I need a gun. However, there are definitely parts of town where I would definitely want a gun before walking around at night.

Detroit is the same way, with more places I'd rather have a gun. I bet you don't walk anywhere near those sections that aren't well lit or don't have some sort of security nearby. There are many places in Detroit that you don't really want to be near.. most the bums are pretty docile too, but downtown is still not a place you want to be at night, alone or in a small group, unless its near a guarded place, like the various concert halls, baseball/football stadiums, or other various venues.

Where in Detroit do you work, exactly? I've never been too far from Woodward Ave and the general Grand Circus Park area, and even then in that immediate vicinity, I don't exactly like the idea of being there unprotected. Any events going on, that area is under the spotlight, but not so much on a general night (although a concert of some type in pretty much in that area every night or every other night at worse.. but my point stands).
 
Originally posted by: thepd7
The ignorance is strong in this thread.

If any CCL holder tried to pull a gun while a mugger had a gun to the back of their heads then they are morons and are going to get shot. NO ONE here is saying pull a gun on someone who has the drop on you, at least no one reasonable.

There are quite a few cases where someone with a CCL has either given their life and helped save many others or taken out the threat. Wiki the Tyler courthouse shooting. Or the example I just used with the religious organizations in Colorado. In both instances the CCL holders saved many lives, and one brave man gave his life.

The funny thing is the people being ignorant here are the ones who think that anyone who would possibly carry a concealed weapon is a cowboy or lives in a small town. They have obviously not met a responsible gun owner nor have they actually dealt with firearms for an extended period of time.

Generalization ftw.
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"The funny thing is the people being ignorant"

"They have obviously not met "

GENERALIZATION FOR THE FUCKING WIN.

Yeah, someone who doesn't share YOUR opinion is obviously ignorant or automatically thinks everyone is a cowboy.

It's called a hypocrite. Look it up asshole.

Ok, so a guy in a mall opens fire with an AK. How many CCL's should pull their weapon and fire at the perp in a public place with innocent people walking around. Who decides to take the shot? How many of them take a single shot? Who hits first and where do the stray bullets go. Who says you're a great marksman? Are you trained to know when/where and how good of a shot you are? Should everyone around trust in you or someone else to take a shot and do the right thing in the right situation?
 
Originally posted by: potato28
Why? If you need to carry a gun, your too scared.
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you think you can take down someone holding an AK-47 without a weapon, or get anywhere near him where you can make a move without that person getting the drop on you? I probably could, at least I could make a damn good attempt at doing so.. most of the general populace cannot. 😉

with that attitude, you better hope someone in your general area is scared enough to have a concealed weapon, or hope you aren't lucky enough to get into a situation like that in the first place. Or else, your going to be much more scared than the person with the weapon, regardless if the person with the weapon has the knowledge and skills to carry anything out to benefit anyone around him in the first place.
 
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: potato28
Why? If you need to carry a gun, your too scared.
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you think you can take down someone holding an AK-47 without a weapon, or get anywhere near him where you can make a move without that person getting the drop on you? I probably could, at least I could make a damn good attempt at doing so.. most of the general populace cannot. 😉
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Wow. Dude. When I grow up, I want to be just like you. Taking down bad guys, using martial arts on attacking waves of marauding invaders. Sneaking around in camouflage. It all just sounds so neat.

Self important much? You post on an internet forum. You're not impressing anyone.

Next please.
 
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: potato28
Why? If you need to carry a gun, your too scared.
Click to expand...

you think you can take down someone holding an AK-47 without a weapon, or get anywhere near him where you can make a move without that person getting the drop on you? I probably could, at least I could make a damn good attempt at doing so.. most of the general populace cannot. 😉

with that attitude, you better hope someone in your general area is scared enough to have a concealed weapon, or hope you aren't lucky enough to get into a situation like that in the first place. Or else, your going to be much more scared than the person with the weapon, regardless if the person with the weapon has the knowledge and skills to carry anything out to benefit anyone around him in the first place.
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I didn't know 7 year-olds frequented ATOT... quite a vivid imagination on this one!
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: thepd7
The ignorance is strong in this thread.

If any CCL holder tried to pull a gun while a mugger had a gun to the back of their heads then they are morons and are going to get shot. NO ONE here is saying pull a gun on someone who has the drop on you, at least no one reasonable.

There are quite a few cases where someone with a CCL has either given their life and helped save many others or taken out the threat. Wiki the Tyler courthouse shooting. Or the example I just used with the religious organizations in Colorado. In both instances the CCL holders saved many lives, and one brave man gave his life.

The funny thing is the people being ignorant here are the ones who think that anyone who would possibly carry a concealed weapon is a cowboy or lives in a small town. They have obviously not met a responsible gun owner nor have they actually dealt with firearms for an extended period of time.

Generalization ftw.
Click to expand...

"The funny thing is the people being ignorant"

"They have obviously not met "

GENERALIZATION FOR THE FUCKING WIN.

Yeah, someone who doesn't share YOUR opinion is obviously ignorant or automatically thinks everyone is a cowboy.

It's called a hypocrite. Look it up asshole.

Ok, so a guy in a mall opens fire with an AK. How many CCL's should pull their weapon and fire at the perp in a public place with innocent people walking around. Who decides to take the shot? How many of them take a single shot? Who hits first and where do the stray bullets go. Who says you're a great marksman? Are you trained to know when/where and how good of a shot you are? Should everyone around trust in you or someone else to take a shot and do the right thing in the right situation?
Click to expand...

concealed carry normally required classes and training.
in the states where you can get a permit without classes and training.. well, that's wrong. There should be proper training, I definitely agree. But that's only a problem with the method of issuing permits. Don't block the possibility of getting a permit just because some jurisdictions hand them out like candy. Change the methods.

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: potato28
Why? If you need to carry a gun, your too scared.
Click to expand...

you think you can take down someone holding an AK-47 without a weapon, or get anywhere near him where you can make a move without that person getting the drop on you? I probably could, at least I could make a damn good attempt at doing so.. most of the general populace cannot. 😉

with that attitude, you better hope someone in your general area is scared enough to have a concealed weapon, or hope you aren't lucky enough to get into a situation like that in the first place. Or else, your going to be much more scared than the person with the weapon, regardless if the person with the weapon has the knowledge and skills to carry anything out to benefit anyone around him in the first place.
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I didn't know 7 year-olds frequented ATOT... quite a vivid imagination on this one!
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because I have an imagination, I have to be 7? :roll:
sorry if you live in Perfectville (and don't give a rats ass about those around you) but um... there are definitely many great reasons for permits with the proper training.
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Ok, so a guy in a mall opens fire with an AK. How many CCL's should pull their weapon and fire at the perp in a public place with innocent people walking around. Who decides to take the shot? How many of them take a single shot? Who hits first and where do the stray bullets go. Who says you're a great marksman? Are you trained to know when/where and how good of a shot you are? Should everyone around trust in you or someone else to take a shot and do the right thing in the right situation?
Click to expand...

Are you wearing the right shoes? Are you having a good hair day? Did you shave this morning or did you let your stubble grow out a little? Did you take cream or sugar in your coffee? Was your previous bowel movement satisfactory? Do you say pop or soda? There is a complete laundry list that must be considered before one allows himself (herself? Who are we kidding) to become a tactical operator in a suburban shopping center. Any Joe Schmoe with a gun can be dangerous, but it takes a special kind to become fucking lethal.

Edit: You better not be carrying a fucking Ruger.
 
Originally posted by: destrekor

concealed carry normally required classes and training.
in the states where you can get a permit without classes and training.. well, that's wrong. There should be proper training, I definitely agree. But that's only a problem with the method of issuing permits. Don't block the possibility of getting a permit just because some jurisdictions hand them out like candy. Change the methods.
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I said I'm for carrying if it's carried for the right reasons. Using the excuse that you could stop someone with an AK in a crowded mall is the problem. I don't think they teach or advise that in the classes 🙂 You're endangering lives at that point.

"I could make a damn good attempt at doing so.. most of the general populace cannot."

THAT right there is specifically what I'm talking about. All the sudden your rambo because you have a gun and you can do it better than anyone else.

 
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Ok, so a guy in a mall opens fire with an AK. How many CCL's should pull their weapon and fire at the perp in a public place with innocent people walking around. Who decides to take the shot? How many of them take a single shot? Who hits first and where do the stray bullets go. Who says you're a great marksman? Are you trained to know when/where and how good of a shot you are? Should everyone around trust in you or someone else to take a shot and do the right thing in the right situation?
Click to expand...

Are you wearing the right shoes? Are you having a good hair day? Did you shave this morning or did you let your stubble grow out a little? Did you take cream or sugar in your coffee? Was your previous bowel movement satisfactory? Do you say pop or soda? There is a complete laundry list that must be considered before one allows himself (herself? Who are we kidding) to become a tactical operator in a suburban shopping center. Any Joe Schmoe with a gun can be dangerous, but it takes a special kind to become fucking lethal.

Edit: You better not be carrying a fucking Ruger.
Click to expand...

Please tell me that's a quote from something. Please. If not, you win the Fucking Lunatic of the Thread award.

Please see me backstage for your lifetime supply of canned meat and complimentary bomb shelter to protect you from the government who is coming to take your guns and impregnate your daughters with their Jewish babies.
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: destrekor

concealed carry normally required classes and training.
in the states where you can get a permit without classes and training.. well, that's wrong. There should be proper training, I definitely agree. But that's only a problem with the method of issuing permits. Don't block the possibility of getting a permit just because some jurisdictions hand them out like candy. Change the methods.
Click to expand...

I said I'm for carrying if it's carried for the right reasons. Using the excuse that you could stop someone with an AK in a crowded mall is the problem. I don't think they teach or advise that in the classes 🙂 You're endangering lives at that point.

"I could make a damn good attempt at doing so.. most of the general populace cannot."

THAT right there is specifically what I'm talking about. All the sudden your rambo because you have a gun and you can do it better than anyone else.
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no.. i'm rambo because I have training to be rambo. 😛
all joking aside, there are the times when it can be good and bad. You don't go charging at someone with a semi-automatic (or automatic) weapon if he has hostages nearby. If you know what your doing, you use your training to do it. If you have never been trained, don't go doing some that should only be done by those who are trained.
I don't advocate all those with concealed carry permits to go rambo style, and they most certainly preach the very opposite approach.. I am merely stating how I would react, *given the perfect circumstances*. There would be many circumstances that would prevent any of the actions I described.

Please understand I don't preach my methods. I for a fact would know if I had the drop on someone, and if I had a great enough probability of hitting my target.. if I didn't think my shot carried a high enough success chance, I wouldn't take it, and I would certainly take into consideration civilian/hostage risks.

but mostly, I am merely throwing out ideas that include perfect circumstances... I am fully aware most problems don't have perfect circumstances and require trained professionals to take care of the problem. I for sure wouldn't want 10 rambos in a mall when there is a single gunman... that is why I want proper training (training that would include the training to not go rambo on someone) before handing out a permit.
 
I'd carry too if we had laser guns. But really, I have little concern about people who obtain the proper permits and training to legally carry, its the ones who don't do it legally that worry me a bit.
And interestingly enough, the supreme court will be interpreting the Second Amendment this coming year: http://docket.medill.northwest...du/archives/004636.php It will be extremely interesting to see what happens, I'm expecting them to lean on the more conservative side but who knows...
 
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Please tell me that's a quote from something. Please. If not, you win the Fucking Lunatic of the Thread award.

Please see me backstage for your lifetime supply of canned meat and complimentary bomb shelter to protect you from the government who is coming to take your guns and impregnate your daughters with their Jewish babies.
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I was kidding, but I still want your meat. Canned or otherwise. :lips:
 
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Please tell me that's a quote from something. Please. If not, you win the Fucking Lunatic of the Thread award.

Please see me backstage for your lifetime supply of canned meat and complimentary bomb shelter to protect you from the government who is coming to take your guns and impregnate your daughters with their Jewish babies.
Click to expand...

I was kidding, but I still want your meat. Canned or otherwise. :lips:
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😀
 
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