finally about to build one

eurovw

Member
Feb 20, 2005
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OK, I'll have around $1200-1300 next couple weeks to spend on the new build. Some little questions.
COOLING. I will have Intel system, probably 3.0GHZ intel. I want to OC, so what cooling method is the best for CPU? what heatsink, thermal paste and etc.?
MOTHERBOARD. Which one is best (intel cpu) to OC?
CASE. Need to be quiet.
Thanks for help in advance.
 

saltedeggman

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2001
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have you considered AMD based system?

what kind of work will you do with the system?

if gaming, go AMD route
 

eurovw

Member
Feb 20, 2005
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no gaming, well maybe occasional gaming, but primary video editing/office applications/programming/photoshop/tv recorder. this is why I 'd prefer Intel system.
 

saltedeggman

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2001
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CASE: get the ones with 120mm fan because you can run large fans at low RPM to reduce noise

Heatsink: Xp90 or Xp120 and run low speed fans
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
May 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: eurovw
no gaming, well maybe occasional gaming, but primary video editing/office applications/programming/photoshop/tv recorder. this is why I 'd prefer Intel system.

Why do you want to overclock a already warm running CPU do this stuff? I don't think you are gain a lot by doing that.

 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
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Originally posted by: UsandThem
Originally posted by: eurovw
no gaming, well maybe occasional gaming, but primary video editing/office applications/programming/photoshop/tv recorder. this is why I 'd prefer Intel system.

Why do you want to overclock a already warm running CPU do this stuff? I don't think you are gain a lot by doing that.

hey, at least he wont need to buy a heater for his house! :p
 

eurovw

Member
Feb 20, 2005
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Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: UsandThem
Originally posted by: eurovw
no gaming, well maybe occasional gaming, but primary video editing/office applications/programming/photoshop/tv recorder. this is why I 'd prefer Intel system.

Why do you want to overclock a already warm running CPU do this stuff? I don't think you are gain a lot by doing that.

hey, at least he wont need to buy a heater for his house! :p
I need help in building, not heating. Please help, don't post comments that don't help.

 

wisdomtooth

Golden Member
Dec 21, 2004
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Originally posted by: eurovw
OK, I'll have around $1200-1300 next couple weeks to spend on the new build. Some little questions.
COOLING. I will have Intel system, probably 3.0GHZ intel. I want to OC, so what cooling method is the best for CPU? what heatsink, thermal paste and etc.?
MOTHERBOARD. Which one is best (intel cpu) to OC?
CASE. Need to be quiet.
Thanks for help in advance.

Sounds to me like you want to build a quiet computer...

Unfortunately, the Prescott Pentium-4 is probably the most difficult CPU to cool quietly, as the others have said, it runs very hot.

If you want to build a quiet machine with plenty of CPU muscle, you probably want to go AMD64.
 

Fisher999

Golden Member
Nov 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: eurovw
has anyone had any experience with this cooler?
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant..._Code=130463&Category_Code=P4Heatsinks

I haven't had any experience with it but it again points out the message that is being repeated over and over in this thread - Intel "Prescott" 90nm LGA775 CPU's run HOT, HOT, HOT at STOCK speeds WITHOUT overclocking !!! If one has to go to these extemes just to cool the darn CPU than what's the point of purchasing one ???

Eurovw I went throught the SAME dilemma when decided on my new system build. Quietness is also a concern of mine. I posted a thread originally titled "Mob/Cpu Decision Help - Intel LGA vs. AMD Athlon64. I was finally convinced by the members of this forum that it would be nearly impossible to build a fairly quiet and reasonable priced Intel system vs a cooler-running high performance AMD system. So I eventually changed the original text in the original post "window" for help in determining which specific AMD system to configure.

I'm not trying to stear you away Intel; I have always considered them to (usually) be more reliable and stable systems then an equivalent AMD system overall. But today's reality is different from the reality of the past.

Intel P4, from the original P4 up to the Northwood core P4, already had an integer pipeline which was way too long (20 stages) and the new Prescott core increases this integer pipeline to 31 stages - see this article here at Anandtech for a better explanation !. This, among other features of their P4 architecture, require their processors to run at much higher speeds than AMD processors to achieve similar performance.

An Intel P4 has to run at 3.0 - 3.2 GHz (even with the new Prescott core) to achieve the similar results as an AMD Athlon64 "Winchester" or "Venice" core CPU running at 2.0 - 2.2 GHz. Common sense tells us, and reality affirms, that the AMD processors run at a much cooler temperature. Overclockers love AMD processors because many of them can be oc'd quite beyond their stock ratings before heat becomes an issue. Usually stability of the CPU or RAM becomes an issue BEFORE heat does.

Please at least THINK about giving AMD a try. There are now a lot of good supporting chipsets out there for AMD. The nVidia nForce series of chips have been a very popular mobo platform for the AMD processors for almost 2 years and even the graphics company ATI has some chipsets to support AMD as do ALi, Sis and VIA technologies. Although ALi and Sis can still be "shakey", VIA, thankfully, has come a long way these last couple of years in term of setup, reliability and compatibility and mobo companies are taking advantage of this by offering some interesting platform solutions for AMD.

Just some food for thought :cookie:
 
Nov 11, 2004
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The Newegg cooler is pretty good, though not as silent as I'd like it to be.
The Monarch cooler is nice and silent, if you attach 2 X 120mm ADDA fans (the slow kind) in a push-pull config, it should be adequate.

Baked suggestion also merits some attention. H2O is of course one of the better ways to cool your CPU, but you pay roughly 4X more for watercooling than for a good air cooled CPU.
Of course, with some watercooling kits, you'll be able to cool more items. Like your northbridge and VGA.
 

Fisher999

Golden Member
Nov 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: Fisher999
Originally posted by: eurovw
has anyone had any experience with this cooler?
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant..._Code=130463&Category_Code=P4Heatsinks

I haven't had any experience with it but it again points out the message that is being repeated over and over in this thread - Intel "Prescott" 90nm LGA775 CPU's run HOT, HOT, HOT at STOCK speeds WITHOUT overclocking !!! If one has to go to these extemes just to cool the darn CPU than what's the point of purchasing one ???

Eurovw I went throught the SAME dilemma when decided on my new system build. Quietness is also a concern of mine. I posted a thread originally titled "Mob/Cpu Decision Help - Intel LGA vs. AMD Athlon64. I was finally convinced by the members of this forum that it would be nearly impossible to build a fairly quiet and reasonable priced Intel system vs a cooler-running high performance AMD system. So I eventually changed the original text in the original post "window" for help in determining which specific AMD system to configure.

I'm not trying to stear you away form Intel; I have always considered them to (usually) be more reliable and stable systems overall. But today's reality is different from the past.

Intel, from the P4 oiginal through its core updates to the Northwood already had an integer pipeline which was too long (20 stages) and the new Prescott core increases this integer pipeline to thirtysome (33 I think) stages. This, among other features of their P4 architecture, require their processors to run at much higher speeds than AMD processors to achieve similar results.

An Intel P4 has to run at 3.0 - 3.2 GHz (even with the new Prescott core) to achieve the similar results as an AMD Athlon64 "Winchester" or "Venice" core CPU running at 2.0 - 2.2 GHz. Common sense tells us, and reality affirms, that the AMD processors run at a much cooler temperature. Overclockers love AMD processors because many of them can be "oc'd" quite far from their stock ratings before heat becomes an issue. Usually stability becomes an issue BEFORE heat does.

Please at least THINK about giving AMD a try. There are now a lot of good supporting chipsets out there for AMD; one doesn't have to rely on just VIA chipsets anymore. The nVidia nForce series of chips have been a very popular mobo platform for the AMD processors this last couple of years and even the graphics company ATI has some chipsets to support AMD and so do ALi, Sis and VIA technologies. VIA, thankfully, has come a long way these last couple of years in term of reliability and compatibility issues and offer some interesting platform solutions for AMDl.

Just some food for thought :cookie:

I edited this while other messages were coming in so I'm just bumping it up ! ;)
 

Fisher999

Golden Member
Nov 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: nick1985

hey, at least he wont need to buy a heater for his house! :p

EXACTLY !!! That's why wanting to OC an Intel P4 is so rediculous ! :)

 

eurovw

Member
Feb 20, 2005
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Very nice explanations.
But been stuborn as I am, I think I will "probably" stay with Intel just because of what I am going to use it for. Does it make sense to get skt 478 Northwood?
 

Fisher999

Golden Member
Nov 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: eurovw
Very nice explanations.
But been stuborn as I am, I think I will "probably" stay with Intel just because of what I am going to use it for. Does it make sense to get skt 478 Northwood?

You pose the VERY same question that I asked the forum. Since I was leaning towards Intel I pondered the advantages of going with "Northwood" Socket 478 versus LGA775 "Prescott". I realized that the drawback is that although "Northwoods" are just as fast as "Prescott"s under 3.0GHz (and run much cooler) as pointed out in this article over here at Anandtech I would be pretty much "locked' into an AGP/PCI board and I wanted a PCI-Express board. So I did a search and about the only mobo I could find that is Socket 478 but also PCI-E is this currently out-of-stock Albatross ( lol, Albatron) i915P chipset-based mobo over here at NewEgg.

Now I don't mean to re-start a debate about Albatron but let's just say that nobody seems to know too much about them and their prices seem awfully low. You often get what you pay for !!!

If an AGP/Legacy PCI Mobo is alright by you then there are plenty of GOOD stable reliable Socket 478 boards STILL available like this Asus P4P800-E Deluxe i-865 chipset-based mobo over here or this Asus P4C800-E Deluxe i-875 Mobo over here. These are both very popular Socket 478 mobos that are compatible with lots of different RAM and are considered very FAST socket 478's, particularly the P4C800-E Deluxe.

Just remember when you are CPU shopping that their doesn't seem to be too many Socket 478 "Notthwoods" out there and those that are available are often the 533MHz FSB versions. There are a few 800MHz varieties available like this Intel 2.8 GHz S478 Northwood 800FSB OEM CPU over here or this Intel 3.0 GHz S478 Northwood 800FSB OEM CPU over here. Note that they are both bare OEM's without HSF's so you could add one of those gonzo HSF's and try some OC'ing.

Let us know what you decide !!!

Greg

 

eurovw

Member
Feb 20, 2005
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well, I'm staying with Intel 4, LGA775 3.0. Will cool it with XP120, now need to choose a mobo.
 

Fisher999

Golden Member
Nov 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: eurovw
well, I'm staying with Intel 4, LGA775 3.0. Will cool it with XP120, now need to choose a mobo.

Good for you eurovw !!! :thumbsup:

Since you're going the route I was originally intending on taking when I started my Mobo/CPU thread 2 weeks ago, may I suggest a few LGA/Intel chipset mobos for you. I think MOST people would agree that Intel makes the best, most stable, reliable and feature-laden chipsets to support their own CPUs ! Why go with an Intel quality CPU and then ruin it by purchasing a Sis or VIA-based board, right ??? For Socket T (LGA775)CPU this means going with the i915 (P or G) or i925 or i955 northbridge coupled to the ICH6R southbridge running a 800MHz FSB.

If you want onboard video (so you can save up for a "killer" videocard or just save money period, lol) you may want to consider this reasonably priced board that I was going to purchase, this ASUS P5GDC-V DELUXE for $156. This board's features include Intel's onboard video via the Intel 900 GMA (graphics media accelerator), Gigabit Lan, PATA connectors 100 X 1 / 133 X2, PATA RAID 0/1/0+1, SATA-150 X4, SATA RAID 0/1/0+1/Matrix RAID, PCI-E x16/x1/Standard PCI X1,2,3 respectively, 8 channel audio, plenty of USB 2.0 ports and onboard firewire (1394a). A unique feature of this board is that it has BOTH DDR and DDR2 slots - 4 DDR and 2 DDR2 slots which can NOT be used simultaneously. This does gives one the option, however, of starting with DDR400 and moving over to DDR2 later if the user desires. The onboard video has poor performance in today's demanding games but is more than adequate for most users.

Since I think you mentioned that you do some video editing you may want to purchase a seperate videocard and go with an i915P/ICH6R mobo like this ASUS P5GDC Deluxe . This board has all the same features listed above for the Asus P5GDC-V Deluxe, including the unique DDR/DDR2 support, but lacks the onboard 900GMA video and costs $8 less.

Now, if you don't mind springing for DDR2 (DDR2 400 is just slightly more expensive than DDR 400) and you want additional features like Wireless LAN and SATA RAID 5 along with all the other features of the Asus P5GDC Deluxe you may want to consider this ASUS P5GD2 DELUXE motherboard. It is slightly more expensive at $175.

If you plan on using an EXTREME P4 at some point in time than you will need either an i-825xe or i-955x chipset-based mobo solution like either this ASUS P5AD2-E Deluxe mobo or this ASUS P5WD2 Premium motherboard. They both raise the ante however and I doubt you want to spend the kind of change required for an EXTREME processor like this one or this one !!!.

Now on the more economical side, if you can live with one less PCI-E x1 slot, one less standard PCI slot, and forgo either PATA or SATA RAID, and live without DDR2 support (just DDR) and live with only 10/100Mbps Lan (no Gigabit) and no onboard firewire (1394a) but still have plenty of USB 2.0 ports, 8 channel audio and onboard video via the intel 900GMA then here's a nice little i915-G board, the ASUS P5GD1-VM . This is a MICRO-atx board and reasonably priced at $102.

All of these boards have VERY NICE layouts. You may notice that I LIKE Asus. IMHO, I feel thay make the best Intel-based motherboards and I have used them personally. Some people will tell you that Abit makes the best oveclocking boards and others may tell you that DFI makes the best oc boards. But I truly believe that ASUS makes the best Intel-based boards that offer a reasonable balance of overclockabilty AND stability !!!

However, if you want a DFI board here's an Intel I915P board, the DFI LANPARTY UT 915P-T12 or if you need AGP video here's an i875-based board the DFI LANPARTY 875P-T ! Let's face it though, the DFI boards, although popular, are really geared for the overclocking gamer - notice how the cover of their mobo boxes show a young kid or kids wearing headphones and gaming at a LAN party ??? And the MAJORITY of forum members who recommended that I go with a DFI board for my AMD Athlon64 system were young overclockers. BTW, PLEASE do not be offended if you are a young overcloker; I'm an old fart (46) and prefer an non-overclocked stable, long living platform versus a superfast, overclocked SHORT-living platform. I know some people are going to flame me for that comment and tell how their oc'd setup has lasted 2-3 years (ya-da-ya-da-ya-da) but if they are honest I think they would admit their systems required a LOT of TLC and maintenance. ;)

BTW, the boards mentioned have the newer 24 pin P/S and although they are backward compatible with the older 20 pin P/S I can't tell you how many people recommended that I go with this Seasonice S12-430 Power Supply. It has dual 12V rails, has ACTIVE PFC, has a large, slower, quieter 120MM single fan and is very efficient at low, middle and high power loads. I went with this Fortron Source AX500A 500W Blue P/S based on reviews like this one at Silent PC Review.

In terms of DDR400 RAM, lots of forum members recommended I go with this G.Skill 1GB (2 x 512MB) 2-3-3-6 RAM for $98. It goes very quickly on NewEgg. They have run out of it twice in the last two weeks but it is so popular that the get it back in stock almost the very next day. As of today they have it, lol. I purchased this Patriot 1 GB (2 x 512MB) 2-3-2-5-T1 RAM for $130. Two forum members that responded to my thread use it and like it's lower latency than the G.Skill - It overclocks fairly well also although I've heard that the G.Skill is good for overclocking and that may be why it is so popular.


BTW, I really wish I would have gone with an INTEL system for my new system build (please don't tell anyone else at this forum, lol). Let's face it, although AMD CPU's are known to be faster in gaming and MS Office Apps, Intel's P4s are known to be faster in audio/video encoding, 3D rendering and content-creation applications. Plus they are generally more stable and reliable platforms and are more compatible with different hardware and software configurations IMHO.


Well I hope I have been of some help to you and please let me know, by posting in this thread or by sending me a private message, which components you decide to purchase.

Greg
 

xsilver

Senior member
Aug 9, 2001
470
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xp120 = best air cooled HSF available

and to the OP - make sure your mobo supports good overclocking feautres if you're going lga775 (and you would, not much reason to go back to s478)-- and remember the limits that anand found with the mobo/cpu's

and dont listen to the people that say its too hot -- an xp120 will make it sweet (eg. 4ghz+)