Final choice: Intel...AMD input welcome

[AA0]

Definition of Hypocrite: Someone that claims he avoids AMD because of headaches, then takes a SiS chipset and ECS board.




If applications ever get optimized for SSE2, then they will have the same chance to be optimized completely for AMD chips too.

 

[NFS4]

<< Definition of Hypocrite: Someone that claims he avoids AMD because of headaches, then takes a SiS chipset and ECS board. >>


ROTFLMFAO!! That is the biggest laugh I've had in the past week or so After all the problems I had with my SiS735 based ECS K7S5A, I'll have to agree 100% with that I wouldn't choose ANYTHING but an Intel chipset for an Intel processor.

 

[PsillyDude]

AA0,


Your right. I wouldn't have chosen an ECS with a SiS board as my first choice, but it's my only choice NOW. Besides, at 88.00, it's not a major investment and a risk I'm willing to take. It should at least get me through the growing pains until the MB's and memory even out.

I hope the AMD as well as the Intel instructions become implemented in future software.
I just have more faith that the Intel will be supported in greater numbers.

Peace.

 

[Sugadaddy]

<< Definition of Hypocrite: Someone that claims he avoids AMD because of headaches, then takes a SiS chipset and ECS board. >>





LMAO

 

[SammyBoy]

whatever...

 

[NesuD]

<< Once and for all:
I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm just looking for "useful feedback" from other users.
>>



Feedback on what. You've already decided and in the process attempted to perpetuate some of the Athlon/ p4 myths which is as good a way to incite a flame war as any.
Athlon heat myth: not really much more heat than a p4 pumping out ipc's at a similar rate. fried chips almost always the result of improper heatsink installation.
Chipset myth: There are a wide variety of top performing, stable, reliable motherboards available based on several good chipsets.
cpu upgrade path myth: this must be a new one Intel cpu upgrade paths have always been very restricitive where you been the last 10 slot and socket changes.
SSE2 will give a big performance boost once there is widespread support for it: lets see can you say MMX,SSE1, or even 3dnow. I have yet to see any widespread software support for any of them why should anything be different for SSE2.


<< The P-4 is only going to clock higher >>


whats that supposed to mean? That the Athlon won't? Thats ridiculous. There is going to be a die shrink in the first half of next year that pretty much guarantees a signigicant jump in clockspeed.
If you had been paying attention you would know that clockspeed is basically irrelevant anymore. What counts now is IPC (Instructions Per Clock) as an accurate measurement of performance. How that is measured is still a matter of debate but it is a fact that certain cpus perform just as well if not better than the fastest current P4 at a significantly lower clock speed 400MHz slower as a matter of fact.
Not trying to chew on you here but much of what you stated is simply innacurate and more likely your opinion than actual fact.
The system you have speced out appears to be a very nice system and if it is to your liking than that is all that is important but lets not justify it with a lot of innacuracies. All that matters is you like it whatever your reasons are. No need to justify your likes and dislikes to us.

 

[Oblique]

Ok, you do realize that the Athlon is not much more unstable than the P4? It is true that very stable Athlon mobos seem few and far between, but the ones that are have just the same uptime as a P4 on an Intel reference board.

By deciding to buy the ECS mobo, you are sacraficing the very thing you say is the reason you bought the P4 in the first place: stability! Basically, you say you are willing to pay more for less speed, if it gives you stability, and yet you aren't even adhereing to your own guidelines.

If you really are willing to pay more for stability, at least go with reliable Intel-based mobo. Or, you could even go with the ABIT KG7-RAID and a 1800+, paying $60 more for a much faster processer, great stability, and the ability to mirror your data *without tweaking*.

 

[dnoyeb]

This is simply rediculous. Some people buy lemons then try to convience themselves they got a good deal. If that makes you feel better...

Lets compare $$$$

$200

AMD XP1800+@1.5GHz
vs.
Intel P4 1.8GHz

The AMD significantly blows the Intel away

QuakeIII maxed
AMD 237.8 FPS
Intel 226.6 FPS

If you want more as everyone has said, read the reviews and benchmarks.

I guess what your saying is that you are willing to live with the 11 FPS difference for a percieved increase in reliability. And you expect SSE2 optimization to bridge that gap. I hate to break the news, but AMD has the far better architecture and is much more efficient. They chose intelligence over BRUTE FORCE. This means that code optimizations will have a more pronounced improvement on AMD processors!!!


Calling an AMD a Chrysler is an insult. AMD is NVIDIA to your 3Df/x

"Thanks for the input. I agree that the AMD system will outperform the Intel system clock for clock, and perform better in some current games/apps. Stability is the name of the game here though. Also, I have faith that the future software will take full advantage of the P-4."

Are you purchasing ECC RAM, running a RAID setup with a battery backup? What is the level of stability you seek?

Clock for clock? AMD is whooping the intel with a much slower clock. What does the p4 have that makes it so good to you? Its architecture is beneath the AthlonXPs. It has SSE2, but this only benefits certain apps, while the AMD architecture benefits ALL applications. By the time software is developed to take advantage of SSE2 1 of 2 things will happen.

1. Software will also be optimized to take advantage of the very similar 3Dnow+ or whatever of AMD.
2. AMD will drop its price to keep its price performance ratio high.

As for stability. My K6 has never been unstable on my Asus MB. Never overclockable, but never unstable either. There is no question about intels stability. But I have issues with your questioning of AMDs. Anandtech does not have information far as I know about the instability of AMDs. But the Itanic is already legondary...

 

[erikiksaz]

AMD had chipset problems? Really? I never knew that, i would have sworn it was the other way around, the problems lie in the addon-cards. But anyways, what do you do that's so special that would receive extra attention from the SSE2 instructions that aren't established in the programs of today?

and NO, Q3 isn't optimized for the Pentium 4. The only reason why the P4 w/ Rambus took such a great lead in Q3 was because of the FAT memory bus. The size of the bus was huge compared to the DDR and previously-used SDRAM. I haven't paid any attention to P4 benchmarks of late, how does it perform in Q3 with DDR?

 

[Pabster]

Obviously, this thread was posted with the intention of beginning a flame shoot.

As someone already mentioned, you made your decision, that's fine. But why "sound off" and then throw AMD in to the mix?

I'm glad you've made your decision, and I'm certain the 1.7GHz on P4S5A will please you (I'm running a 1.8GHz on P4S5A and it's great) -- but there really was little point in posting something like this. It's one of those threads that turns in to a flame shoot with the first post.

 

[Andrew111]

<<

NFS4,

I'm only starting this thread to point out both AMD and Intel are viable choices. It all depends on what your looking for: Ultimate bang-for-the-buck; at the expense of more "tweaking" or acceptable performance with more reliability.

I've decided on an Intel system for my primary (business), system.
I'd love to add a kick-ass AMD system for fun. I just don't think it's ready for prime time yet, maybe next year once they iron out their chipset problems and heat issues.

In my opinion, AMD is Chrysler Corp. in the mid 80's...up and coming. And if they play thier cards right, they'll come out on top.

Oh yea, and don't forget I'm NOT buying overpriced Intel based MB's or overpriced RDRAM. More $$$ saved.



Peace (and yea, I am "one silly dude") >>


It's fairly obvious you are trying to start a flame war with comments like that. It's also fairly obvious that you have not tried an AMD CPU recently. My AMD Athlon Xp 1.33GHz needs no tweaking whatsoever, and I'm using a $85 motherboard, the Shuttle Kt266a, which happens to be the best performing chipset for DDR platforms. Windows XP was so nice that it installed all needed drivers for me in regards to VIA. It was a breeze, smooth sailing. Also, their is no heat issue with AMD products, unless you feel so inclined as to use your heatsink as punting practice while it's still attached to the CPU. So what if it produces more heat than an Intel CPU, it is NO issue whatsoever unless you are silly enough to not know how to install the heatsink properly.....Saving $100s by going with AMD while still getting better performance is what matters most

Also, their is no stability problems with the three VIA systems I have at my house. One of them was built over a year ago, it's still going strong, I only have to restart due to Windows 98 slow down. My new Kt266a was a dream to build, and it's stable as a rock, it just got through my benchmark torture test and passed with flying colors

Have fun with your "investment" with the P4, but can you seriously look me in the face, look at all the benchmarks where the Athlon dominates, and tell me that some software tweaking might bring it up to Athlon levels? Mighty large gamble don't you think, and I'd rather take the money I save going with AMD all these years and buy Hammer the day it's released instead of waiting to see if the P4 actually has a substantial software support.

 

[Xenon14]

Cypher from the Matrix said it best, "Ignorance is bliss."

It appears to me that is clearly the case here. For if it isn't a flame war; then it would be what PsillyDude claims it to be "useful feedback." And if it were to be useful, he'd take the valuable advice of these forum members and purchase an AMD system. However, that doesn't seem to be happening.

In conclusion, PsillyDude, I mock you. You are a sad, sad individual.

But perhaps all of the AMD fans are wrong. I mean, PsillyDude really has it all figured out... he'll have a slower system, and less money in his pocket! ...reminds me of a friend who bought a Packard Bell and bragged about it.

 

[Red Dawn]

NFS4

<< ROTFLMFAO!! That is the biggest laugh I've had in the past week or so: >>

Try explaining the humor in that to some chick at a party(You'll go home alone). Watch it NFS4, you are starting to sound like Zealot Dweeb

If I ever get into one of these Intel vs AMD squabbles please kill me and put me out of my misery. Man when somebody says they like one chip over another some of you act as if someone insulted your penis!

 

[NFS4]

<< NFS4

<< ROTFLMFAO!! That is the biggest laugh I've had in the past week or so: >>

Try explaining the humor in that to some chick at a party. Watch it NFS4, you are starting to sound like Zealot Dweeb

If I ever get into one of these Intel vs AMD squabbles please kill me and put me out of my misery. Man when somebody says they like one chip over another some of you act as if someone insulted your penis! >>



Red Dawn, I only laughed so hard b/c it sounded like something only an intellectual like yourself would recite to Mr. PsillyDude

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Red Dawn, I only laughed so hard b/c it sounded like something only an intelectual like yourself would recite to Mr. PsillyDude >>

No you laughed so hard because you are becoming a Dweeb Zealot and you are easily entertained

What is the purpose of insulting someone because they prefer one CPU over the other? I have an AMD for myself but I usually only sell Intel to my clients? Why, because that's what they want. Do I bother trying to "educate" them? No why should I? Intel works great, I never have any problems with compatibility (not that I do with AMD) and my profit margin is the same. Really, who gives a good rat's ass which one is that much faster? Most of our software can't take advantage of the Power of either Chip.

 

[NFS4]

<<

<< Red Dawn, I only laughed so hard b/c it sounded like something only an intelectual like yourself would recite to Mr. PsillyDude >>

No you laughed so hard because you are becoming a Dweeb Zealot and you are easily entertained

What is the purpose of insulting someone because they prefer one CPU over the other? I have an AMD for myself but I usually only sell Intel to my clients? Why, because that's what they want. Do I bother trying to "educate" them? No why should I? Intel works great, I never have any problems with compatibility (not that I do with AMD) and my profit margin is the same. Really, who gives a good rat's ass which one is that much faster? Most of our software can't take advantage of the Power of either Chip. >>



Red Dawn, I think that you are missing the WHOLE POINT of the quote that I responded too. It is so ludicrous b/c PsillyDude stated that he ws going to Intel for stability and proven performance/reliability yet he chooses to back the processor up with the cheapest ECS motherboard (with a chipset that has yet to proove itself) that he could find. We all know that the ECS K7S5A is pretty much luck of the draw as far as getting one that works properly. Just look at the P4X266 boards from VIA, they are also kinda sketchy at best. To be frank, anything other than Intel right now for P4's is kinda stretchin' it unless you want to be prepared for some "tinkering"

That is what was so funny. It's like saying that you're going to buy a Lexus b/c you are proud of their quality and reliability, yet you get a Lexus with a Chevy V6 engine and Chevy transmission in it. Sure it make work, but it's not exactly the total "Lexus" quality that you proclaimed it to be.

I think that you have missed the whole point of each one of my posts in this thread. None of my posts criticized him for going Intel. Who cares about that. My beef was with him dragging AMD into the discussion for no reason other than to spark a flame war.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< My beef was with him dragging AMD into the discussion for no reason other than to spark a flame war. >>

And my beef was that you had a beef about him dragging AMD into it. Who gives a damn?

 

[AGodspeed]

Man when somebody says they like one chip over another some of you act as if someone insulted your penis!

LOL LOL LOL.

 

[NFS4]

<<

<< My beef was with him dragging AMD into the discussion for no reason other than to spark a flame war. >>

And my beef was that you had a beef about him dragging AMD into it. Who gives a damn? >>


B/C we all know what that brings...we all know how touchy this board is over this stuff.

He made his decision, that's fine. But why bring AMD into the mix?

 

[Red Dawn]

<< But why bring AMD into the mix? >>

Why ask why.. and even more, why care?

 

[Sugadaddy]

<<

<< Red Dawn, I only laughed so hard b/c it sounded like something only an intelectual like yourself would recite to Mr. PsillyDude >>

No you laughed so hard because you are becoming a Dweeb Zealot and you are easily entertained

What is the purpose of insulting someone because they prefer one CPU over the other? I have an AMD for myself but I usually only sell Intel to my clients? Why, because that's what they want. Do I bother trying to "educate" them? No why should I? Intel works great, I never have any problems with compatibility (not that I do with AMD) and my profit margin is the same. Really, who gives a good rat's ass which one is that much faster? Most of our software can't take advantage of the Power of either Chip. >>




Nobody insulted him because he prefers Intel, people were giving him advice. And yes, that IS (supposedly) why he started a thread on a computer hardware forum, TO GET ADVICE.


Go read the thread...

 

[Sugadaddy]

<<

<< But why bring AMD into the mix? >>

Why ask why.. and even more, why care? >>




why post?, why reply?, why think?

 

[Pabster]

Red Dawn wrote:

"What is the purpose of insulting someone because they prefer one CPU over the other? I have an AMD for myself but I usually only sell Intel to my clients? Why, because that's what they want. Do I bother trying to "educate" them? No why should I? Intel works great, I never have any problems with compatibility (not that I do with AMD) and my profit margin is the same. Really, who gives a good rat's ass which one is that much faster? Most of our software can't take advantage of the Power of either Chip."

I don't think anyone insulted him for -choosing- Intel. He was "beat down" because he quite obviously posted this thread with the sole intention of sparking (yet another) Intel vs AMD flame shoot. I could care less what CPU he chooses, but there's no reason to post such gibberish in the first place. We've got enough flame shoots which evoke out of (seemingly unrelated) threads without people purposefully starting them. And PsillyDude certainly isn't alone in this respect, several other infamous characters are guilty as well...

 

[Red Dawn]

Sugardaddy

<< why post?, why reply?, why think? >>

Why start now?

Pabster, some of you are so predictable that you are easy to provoke into a "Flame war" over CPU's. I knew what I'd find when I opened this thread. Now I would expect knucledraggers like Sugardaddy to start in but older respected members such as yourserlf and NFS4 should know better. If you want to flame just go to OffTopic. This Intel vs AMD crap has really gotten old. If what Sillyputty said was foolish then ignore him. Hell the flames are what brought people to this thread, not his ignorance.

 

[Bovinicus]

I still don't understand this mass misconception of people who have not ever built AMD systems. Many of them say that Intel is more reliable. Where is your data to back this up? The KT133A, AMD760, SiS735, and KT266A chipsets are all very stable. I don't care what anyone says, Intel systems are not necessarily more reliable than AMD systems. It all depends on what hardware you use in conjunction with your CPU's. I have no problem with someone picking Intel over AMD, they are both great products. I just don't agree that Intel is any more stable/reliable. The fact of the matter is, the CPU doesn't make that much of a difference at this point in time. Video cards still make up more of the bottleneck in gaming performance than any other piece of hardware in the system (At least in resolutions above 1024x768x32), especially if you like FSAA.