Final Budget System Revision...

[Devcon]

http://secure.newegg.com/app/W...it=VIEW&ID=1061739

This machine will only be used for internet, general use, and perhaps light picture editing. Final comments that don't impact the price much are very welcome.

 

[slash196]

Looks fine...as long as you really don't do anything on it.

 

[tjaisv]

Originally posted by: slash196
Looks fine...as long as you really don't do anything on it.

umm...his specs are more than adequate for doing a lot of things

 

[wuggle]

Originally posted by: slash196
Looks fine...as long as you really don't do anything on it.

ditto...

 

[jpeyton]

How about an 80GB 8MB cache drive for less than $10 more?

 

[Devcon]

Yeah, I considered a bigger hard drive, but the person who will be using this computer currently has only a 20GB HD and has only used a maximum of 10GB. Another hard drive could always be picked up down the line also...

For 10-20$ more, a barton core 2200+ could be added, but would that be worth it? It definately won't be an overclocked rig, but it needs to be snappy as far as doing everyday things.

Also, there aren't any apparent hardware conflicts, are there? I'm not very experienced, so I very well could have chosen components that don't fit together (physically and operationally).

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: Devcon
http://secure.newegg.com/app/W...it=VIEW&ID=1061739

This machine will only be used for internet, general use, and perhaps light picture editing. Final comments that don't impact the price much are very welcome.

127.90 for the proc and mobo...

You have the OEM proc listed on there, do you already have a heatsink and fan?

plus, you might want to look into the Sempron 2400 or 2800, about the same price, but will probably perform better...

EDIT:
2800 for 107(with heatsink and fan)

sempron 2400 with heatsink and fan for $60

 

[DrCool]

I would swap the Biostar motherboard, for the equivelent MSI board which will deliever much higher quality and performance.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDMz

otherwise, you've done an admiral job of pricing out a budget system for your friend.

The DVD+-/RW Drive seems a little 'to good to be true' , but if you have past experience with it, it seems to fit (price wise) perfectly.

 

[Devcon]

Just added a Dynatron CPU cooler...

The only reason I didn't choose a better board for a similar price is the onboard video. The MSI doesn't appear to have any video, but it does look like it would be a good choice w/ a cheap graphics card.



EDIT: In response to what is below --- I read the reviews on newegg, and they say the semprons have issues with multi-tasking. Think there is any truth to that?

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: Devcon
Just added a Dynatron CPU cooler...

still, 6 bucks for cooler, and 66 for proc, that is $72.

I would definitly get the sempron 2400 @ $60, cheaper, faster, and it is retail with the bigger warranty.

 

[DrCool]

Devcon

sometimes it's not clear what features a board has..

nForce 2 IGP = motherboard with onboard video (in this case GeForce 4 MX)

MSI "K7N2GM2-LSR"
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=13-130-477&depa=0

 

[Devcon]

Nice... I made the MB change and went back to Corsair RAM to shave off 4 dollars. Now the only issue on hand is whether or not the Sempron would be the better processor.

 

[Tostada]

Were you originally using the Biostar M7NCG 400? Why on earth would you spend an extra $10 for the MSI board? The Biostar has many, many reviews as a very good, reliable board. I've used it several times. I can't even find a review of that specific MSI board anywhere.

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=13-138-234

I can appreciate what a good deal that a $48 DVD burner is ($52 delivered), but do you honestly think this person will ever use it? If he does burn DVDs, will he be satisfied having a 40GB hard drive? For the average user, DVD-RWs are not very useful. If you were going to get them a DVD-RW, you would really want to get something that supports dual layer, because a simple 1:1 copy of a movie is something that will be useful to the average user once the price of DL media comes down (it's already under $10).

If you're going to get this guy a DVD-RW, you should probably spend another $10 for the dual-layer version:

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=27-182-025

Or else save another $12 and get a regular combo 52X burner / 16X DVD-ROM:

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=27-151-051

Also, Nforce2 IGP boards sometimes act a little funny if you try to use the on-board video in single-channel mode, so you should get a pair of 256MB sticks. I would normally get Corsair, but there's nothing wrong with the cheaper Kingston PC2700, seeing as you're using a Sempron 2400 (333 FSB):

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=20-141-302

I guess it's not clear how tight of a budget you're on. You're using a very nice case. While I understand reliable parts are the most important thing when building other people's systems, people on these forums grossly overestimate the kind of PSU your average user needs, because they're used to hardcore overclocker systems. Your local computer shop should be able to give you an adorable little MATX case with a reliable PSU for less than that.

Does he really have any need for a floppy drive? It's not like you have to load SATA drivers.

If this person isn't going to be playing any games, this board is very good:

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=13-157-022

ASRock is ASUS's name for their Chinese motherboards. That board is $45, it has integrated graphics that work fine with a single memory stick, and it comes with a free modem.

I guess what I'm thinking is that you need to decide how much of a budget system you want. You're giving him a 40GB drive when the 80GB version is only $6.25 more. If you're penny-pinching like that, you need to go with the ASRock board and a regular combo CDR/DVD-ROM, or even just the regular Optorite 52X burner for $21.99:

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=27-182-021

If the guy is going to play the occasional game and maybe burn some DVDs in the future, then:

- upgrade to the dual-layer burner
- upgrade to an 80GB hard drive
- switch to the Biostar board with a good track record
- use dual-channel memory

 

[DrCool]

Tostada, you may want to post fact and not FICTION

here is a HEAD to HEAD comparsion of the MSI board vs the board your recommending:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/m...030214/nforce2-08.html

the MSI board, well outperforms the Biostar board, and thats on PURE numbers, not considering Brand Quality, or consistency of brand performance...

also, ASRock is not ASUS.. they may be a rebranded board, that asus contributes to in some way, but by no strecth of the imagination is ASRock an ASUS equivelent, nor do you have any substantial proof to back up that claim.

 

[Devcon]

It appears that things just got a bit more complicated. No games will be played on this computer seeing as it is for a parent. It is just for internet, general applications, and light picture editing. I'd like to keep it under 400$, since she wants to invest in a decent LCD sometime in the future when a good deal pops up.

I'm definately debating on whether or not to go with the Sempron. I'm even thinking of upping the price a bit and going with the XP and a barton core, but that may be overkill. I'm skeptical of the Sempron due to the reviews of its poor multi-tasking abilities. I'm thinking it might be more efficient to go w/ a cheaper case and up the processor power, but I'm not sure.

Also, are you sure that dual channel RAM would be necessary w/ the MSI board? I'd like to put a 512 stick in there now, so at some time in the future, I can just add another 512 when the next incarnation of windows comes out.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: DrCool
Tostada, you may want to post fact and not FICTION

here is a HEAD to HEAD comparsion of the MSI board vs the board your recommending:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/m...030214/nforce2-08.html

the MSI board, well outperforms the Biostar board, and thats on PURE numbers, not considering Brand Quality, or consistency of brand performance...

also, ASRock is not ASUS.. they may be a rebranded board, that asus contributes to in some way, but by no strecth of the imagination is ASRock an ASUS equivelent, nor do you have any substantial proof to back up that claim.

Calm down there and try to think for a second, big guy.

That benchmark you're linking to is totally irrelevant in so many ways I really shouldn't even waste my time talking about it, but since you seem to enjoy giving out bad advice so much I suppose I'll explain.

The article is almost two years old. The motherboards in it are different models. Maybe the Micro-ATX MSI board you're suggesting is very similar to the MSI board in the article, but the Biostar board has an older chipset than the one currently sold at Newegg.

The article is talking about the Biostar M7NCG V 1.0.

Newegg is selling the Biostar M7NCG 400 V 7.0.

Now try actually reading that article you linked to. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS! The two boards are within about 1% of each other on most benchmarks. Even if they were the right motherboards, how does that even matter? Do you think this guy is going to sweat the difference between 126 seconds and 127 seconds to encode some MP3s? Because that's the kind of difference you're making a big deal about. But it doesn't matter, because the benchmarks are for different motherboards.

Now let's get back to talking about the motherboards this guy was considering (not the ones in the article). There are 154 customer reviews on the Biostar board at Newegg. Almost every one of them is saying nothing but good things. Now look at the MSI board. ZERO customer reviews at Newegg. Now tell me again why it is that you want this guy to pay more for the MSI version? MSI is known for making motherboards that have a lot of little issues and are a hassle in general. Even their nice Neo Platinum boards get more complaints than your average board.

The Biostar board has also been around longer and has more recent BIOS updates.

As I said, ASRock boards are made by ASUS but they are the ones manufactured in China. Do you not believe that? What exactly is your problem? That ASRock board is also a board I've used several times, and it's about 100X better than other cheap boards I've used. It has 33 good reviews and one bad review from a guy who apparently got a DOA board. I am totally amazed that they can actually sell a reliable board for $45 that comes with a modem.

If there is something I'm actually wrong about, please inform me. It looks like you're just keen on spewing bad advice and ranting mindlessly, though.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: Devcon
It appears that things just got a bit more complicated. No games will be played on this computer seeing as it is for a parent. It is just for internet, general applications, and light picture editing. I'd like to keep it under 400$, since she wants to invest in a decent LCD sometime in the future when a good deal pops up.

I'm definately debating on whether or not to go with the Sempron. I'm even thinking of upping the price a bit and going with the XP and a barton core, but that may be overkill. I'm skeptical of the Sempron due to the reviews of its poor multi-tasking abilities. I'm thinking it might be more efficient to go w/ a cheaper case and up the processor power, but I'm not sure.

Also, are you sure that dual channel RAM would be necessary w/ the MSI board? I'd like to put a 512 stick in there now, so at some time in the future, I can just add another 512 when the next incarnation of windows comes out.

When people complain about multitasking on a Sempron, they're generally talking about doing something pretty hardcore in the background. I seriously doubt you'd notice the difference in CPUs for what she'd be doing. The Bartons have really gone through the roof. If you want one, the best deal you'll find is the 35W Mobile 2200+, which is 1.66 GHz just like the Sempron 2400+. It's really nice because it's the Barton core, it makes less heat, and it's unlocked so you can set the FSB to 400.

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=19-103-440

Of course, it doesn't have a fan, but the WhisperRock II is a good deal:

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=35-150-010

The only down-side to the Mobile XP is that it doesn't come with the Athlon sticker. It sounds stupid, but if you're just some guy building a machine for someone, a retail sticker on the case makes it look a lot more legitimate.

I've heard reports on many different NForce IGP boards of strange things happening in 3D apps when you don't have paired memory running in dual-channel. You'd be better off pairing the memory or else not using an NForce IGP board. I really think you're planning too far ahead if you're thinking about getting 1 GB of RAM for an office machine to run Longhorn (or whatever). Besides, the IGP boards do have three memory slots, so you could still pair your memory and add another 512 MB stick later. You'd just have to take it out of dual-channel mode and maybe find a regular AGP card to throw in it. If you have a nice LCD, you'll probably be wenting a DVI card anyway.

 

[Devcon]

Well, I followed your suggestions Tostada as you sound like you know what your doing. I switched to kinston RAM (256MBx2) instead of crucial due to apparent compatibility issues w/ the Corsair RAM in the Biostar board. Seeing as the Biostar has 3 Dimms as opposed to 2, it seems like a good solution. The Sempron will most likely be fine for all her activities.

I think its finalized now as its under $400 including shipping.

 

[DrCool]

Tostada

again, where are your FACTS? where is the proof to back up your statements?

I posted an opinion and evidence to back it up.. your just posting an opinion..

Show me a review from a 'reputable' source that shows this board in a favorable light or Biostar motherboards in general.. I can produce plenty of reviews of MSI boards, and they show MSI consistently making a quality product..

also, unless you have some proof to back up your claim about ASRock, it's purely gossip, and gossip is worthless.

yes, the board i'm recommending is the matx version, of THE SAME BOARD.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: Devcon
Well, I followed your suggestions Tostada as you sound like you know what your doing. I switched to kinston RAM (256MBx2) instead of crucial due to apparent compatibility issues w/ the Corsair RAM in the Biostar board. Seeing as the Biostar has 3 Dimms as opposed to 2, it seems like a good solution. The Sempron will most likely be fine for all her activities.

I think its finalized now as its under $400 including shipping.

I don't see any problems, but you might want to look at your memory specs. You've got PC3200 CL 3, but the Sempron has a 333 MHz FSB which going to run it at PC2700 CL 3. You might as well just get PC2700 CL 2.5 which will be faster and save you $4.

http://www.newegg.com/app/View...description=20-141-302

That memory also runs at a slightly lower voltage, and the reviews say it will do CL 2.0 just fine or run at PC3200.

Not that it would really make much difference. I suppose if you think you'll be upgrading the CPU you might as well stick with the legit PC3200.

 

[Devcon]

Thanks for all the help guys...

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: DrCool
Tostada

again, where are your FACTS? where is the proof to back up your statements?

I posted an opinion and evidence to back it up.. your just posting an opinion..

Show me a review from a 'reputable' source that shows this board in a favorable light or Biostar motherboards in general.. I can produce plenty of reviews of MSI boards, and they show MSI consistently making a quality product..

also, unless you have some proof to back up your claim about ASRock, it's purely gossip, and gossip is worthless.

yes, the board i'm recommending is the matx version, of THE SAME BOARD.

I don't see why you are ranting like this. Is it not good enough that there are over 100 positive reviews of the Biostar board and not a single review of the MSI? Do you think there is a massive conspiracy at Newegg to make Biostar look better than MSI? What is wrong with you? If you think the 154 reviews of the Biostar board at Newegg are useless, I'm very interested in seeing the how you can top that with support for the MSI board. I guess if nobody has anything to say about it anywhere on the web, that must be a good thing, right? I'm sure you can expect support for years to come with such a popular board!

What evidence did you post about anything? You linked to an ancient review of two motherboards which are not the same boards you were even arguing about. And no, you can't say that Tom's review is the same MSI board. Can you see the model number? Just as I asked with the Biostar board, I must also ask you what exactly makes you think that MSI's original 333 FSB K7N2 in Tom's review is the same board as the new 400 FSB K7N2GM2-LSR? What kind of "evidence" are you looking for? Not only are they different models, but both the boards have a newer chipset. Perhaps you should call a trusted 3rd party like your mother and ask her if 400 is the same as 333.

And I really have no idea how you could possibly be so clueless that you question my statements about ASRock boards. What proof are you looking for? What part of my statements don't you believe? For God's sake, just go to Google and type in "ASrock ASUS China" and you'll find about 3000 pages saying that ASRock boards are made by ASUS's Chinese subsidiary Hua Ching.

You're a child. You're a person who causes a useful online forum to degenerate into infantile bickering. You give an opinion, back it up with a fallacy, and then pretend that yelling about it will make people see it your way. You will not get the validation you're looking for so long as people can see that you don't know what you're talking about, so you'd probably be happier posting somewhere else. People here are too smart for you.

Or, at the very least, say something that makes sense like, "OMG U R TEH DUM! U NEED SATA 4 UR SEMPRON ITZ ONLY $10 MORE!!!!1!1!!111!"

I really don't expect any sense to come from the type of guy who makes his own online forum just to talk to himself. Now this is just creepy:

http://www.drcool.us/

The truth comes out! You're a crazy person who happens to only like MSI and ASUS boards. You also like to pay more to get your parts at MWave and KDComputers. And you like to make posts which berate people for not choosing the exact same components that you have listed in your silly System Builders Guide. And you have a forum where you talk to yourself.

 

[Gothgar]

^^^^LOL

Man, I read your site DrCool, damn, you are one lonely mother f-er...

If you would try to be not so damn stubborn for manybe one second, maybe you could make friends...

It is obvious you don't really know what you are talking about, between this thread and the other one...

I don't know what to even say to you...

Devcon, listen to Tostada's suggestions over the self proclaimed genius DrCool

 

[DrCool]

Originally posted by: Gothgar
^^^^LOL

Man, I read your site DrCool, damn, you are one lonely mother f-er...

If you would try to be not so damn stubborn for manybe one second, maybe you could make friends...

It is obvious you don't really know what you are talking about, between this thread and the other one...

The word TROLL comes to mind when I read your posts..

Unless you have something of value to share, keep your ignorant non-sense to yourself.

I see you've been a member for a while and really know your stuff :disgust:
OH, wait.. you've only been a member for 2 months, and all you do is POST CRAP.

keep up the good work!

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: DrCool

Originally posted by: Gothgar
^^^^LOL

Man, I read your site DrCool, damn, you are one lonely mother f-er...

If you would try to be not so damn stubborn for manybe one second, maybe you could make friends...

It is obvious you don't really know what you are talking about, between this thread and the other one...

The word TROLL comes to mind when I read your posts..

Unless you have something of value to share, keep your ignorant non-sense to yourself.

I see you've been a member for a while and really know your stuff :disgust:
OH, wait.. you've only been a member for 2 months, and all you do is POST CRAP.

keep up the good work!

Since you have made it obvious that you have to be a member of the Anandtech forums for a long time to prove that you know anything about computers, I concede to you, oh great master.

I can see how your 3 years of being an Anandtech forums member makes you so immensely intelligent that I cannot content any more.