Filling car tires with Nitrogen?

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: db
Air migrates out of the tire faster than nitrogen. Many Costcos are now using nitrogen rather than air in their tire shops, at no charge.

Most tires shops here use nitrogen inflation as well.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: db
Air migrates out of the tire faster than nitrogen. Many Costcos are now using nitrogen rather than air in their tire shops, at no charge.

Most tires shops here use nitrogen inflation as well.

Easiest 39.95 to make in the business.

 

[Bartman39]

I agree with Pac...

Nitrogen in the everyday driver has little or no benefit from using it other than on a long drive in southwest heat possibly...?

Nascar along with other forms of racing are using Nitrogen for one reason "little or no expansion" which gives them that tenth of a second less per lap because tire grip is better with more stable tire pressures... Nitrogen just doesnt expand as much as normal compressed air...

IMPO it is a complete rip-off for the average smooh... (but the gimmick works on old farts with Caddies & yayhoo`s with more money than brains...)


Think they still print this in Latin on our money...? "Let the buyer beware"

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: db
Air migrates out of the tire faster than nitrogen. Many Costcos are now using nitrogen rather than air in their tire shops, at no charge.

Most tires shops here use nitrogen inflation as well.

Easiest 39.95 to make in the business.

They don't charge for it.

Many of them will fill your tires with it free if you ask.

 

[Bartman39]

James... If they dont charge then thats pretty cool... :thumbsup:

Sad though most do charge extra... :thumbsdown:


Might help that sharp-azz Camero of yours though

 

[thomsbrain]

of course when you top off your tire with air you're "dilluting" the nitrogen, but it will only be a tiny percentage when you figure how little air you need to add, and how little of that air is anything other than nitrogen.

i bought two pairs of tires fairly close in time to each other, and one set had nitrogen, and one set had air. i literally had to top off the air tires 3 times as often as the nitrogen tires. now, it's certainly possible the nitrogen tires just had better valves (they were a different brand), and YMMV, but that was my experience. it cost me nothing, and i wasn't complaining.

like i said, i wouldn't go out of my way to make sure my next set have nitrogen, but i wouldn't bitch and moan about it, either. however, i might recommend my mother get her next set at costco, since her pressure probably never gets checked outside of the mechanic and their prices on michelins are pretty good.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
of course when you top off your tire with air you're "dilluting" the nitrogen, but it will only be a tiny percentage when you figure how little air you need to add, and how little of that air is anything other than nitrogen.

i bought two pairs of tires fairly close in time to each other, and one set had nitrogen, and one set had air. i literally had to top off the air tires 3 times as often as the nitrogen tires. now, it's certainly possible the nitrogen tires just had better valves (they were a different brand), and YMMV, but that was my experience. it cost me nothing, and i wasn't complaining.

like i said, i wouldn't go out of my way to make sure my next set have nitrogen, but i wouldn't bitch and moan about it, either. however, i might recommend my mother get her next set at costco, since her pressure probably never gets checked outside of the mechanic and their prices on michelins are pretty good.

So different brands of tires mounted on different wheels. There's zero scientific validity to that test, it produced absolutely no useful information at all.

It's great that you had good luck and all, don't get me wrong, but that's hardly a valid test.

ZV

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
of course when you top off your tire with air you're "dilluting" the nitrogen, but it will only be a tiny percentage when you figure how little air you need to add, and how little of that air is anything other than nitrogen.

i bought two pairs of tires fairly close in time to each other, and one set had nitrogen, and one set had air. i literally had to top off the air tires 3 times as often as the nitrogen tires. now, it's certainly possible the nitrogen tires just had better valves (they were a different brand), and YMMV, but that was my experience. it cost me nothing, and i wasn't complaining.

like i said, i wouldn't go out of my way to make sure my next set have nitrogen, but i wouldn't bitch and moan about it, either. however, i might recommend my mother get her next set at costco, since her pressure probably never gets checked outside of the mechanic and their prices on michelins are pretty good.

So different brands of tires mounted on different wheels. There's zero scientific validity to that test, it produced absolutely no useful information at all.

It's great that you had good luck and all, don't get me wrong, but that's hardly a valid test.

ZV

Exactly, and all the evidence the companies that the nitro-fill equipment to the dealerships have is anecdotal as well.
The selling points they provide are such as: "XX company uses this in all their delivery vans and they're now getting xxx% more mileage from their tires", or "you'll feel a difference in the ride".
Nothing scientific, all purely anecdotal.

Oh, and all gases expand and contract at the same rate, so the "holding the air pressure more consistently" argument is not valid, either. Look up "Boyles Law"

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: db
Air migrates out of the tire faster than nitrogen. Many Costcos are now using nitrogen rather than air in their tire shops, at no charge.

QFT...

Nitrogen is better, but many won't see a difference in either.

Those that will notice is the average person that never checks air pressure or the person that does a lot of long distance driver. It's a minor amount, but for those that drive in a month what many drive in a year...minor amounts add up.

IMHO unless it's free you aren't going to recoup the savings most of the time.

The popularity was fueled by rising gas prices.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: walrus
Air is 78% nitrogen already. Race cars use pure nitrogen because it doesn't have any water vapor in it that can change the tire pressure slightly at high temps. But it won't affect your mileage significantly

Ding ding ding. Winnar!

It's amazing how much misinformation or poor logic surrounds the topic of Nitrogen in tires.

Nitrogen migrates through tire rubber slower than air does, but the difference is minimal.

The biggest benefit is it tends to be almost completely dry. Because of this, temperature does not change the pressure very much. Yes, it follows the ideal gas low (obviously), but normal air has a lot of moisture in it. That's what really affects the pressure, and is often overlooked by those only remembering part of the ideal gas law.

When you're using racing tires, or even running your DOT tires really hard, it's easy to shred them past a certain PSI. For instance, both the Pirelli Corsa and Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (both great DOT-R choice) fall apart pretty quickly above 36 PSI or so. With a cold pressure of just under 30 PSI, air with moisture rises over 36-40 PSI quickly on many tracks, while dry air and Nitrogen do not.

Now, if your local station has a very good system in their air pump to remove the moisture (many high end systems do) AND they are nice enough dump out the moisture reservoir every day or so, that'll give you the performance of Nitrogen. If not, Nitrogen is a good way to keep a consistant temperature for sporting use.

Note: Many of places do Nitrogen fill ups for free.

You do a few deflations/inflations, and you should be very close to moisture free when filling with Nitrogen. Some track wheels have two air valve stems, one to release air and the other to fill, at the same time.

Who is the sillier person? The person who gets their Nitrogen for free or near free at many local shops, or the person who shreds $1700 worth of tires in a single track day to save the few bucks?

 

[DivideBYZero]

I don't think the OP was discussing this with regard to track use, but that info is interesting. However, all I have ever heard is that it slows pressure loss due to lower migration. A few tyre places have it here in the UK, but when you have an air pump at every gas station it's hardly a big deal.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
of course when you top off your tire with air you're "dilluting" the nitrogen, but it will only be a tiny percentage when you figure how little air you need to add, and how little of that air is anything other than nitrogen.

i bought two pairs of tires fairly close in time to each other, and one set had nitrogen, and one set had air. i literally had to top off the air tires 3 times as often as the nitrogen tires. now, it's certainly possible the nitrogen tires just had better valves (they were a different brand), and YMMV, but that was my experience. it cost me nothing, and i wasn't complaining.

like i said, i wouldn't go out of my way to make sure my next set have nitrogen, but i wouldn't bitch and moan about it, either. however, i might recommend my mother get her next set at costco, since her pressure probably never gets checked outside of the mechanic and their prices on michelins are pretty good.

So different brands of tires mounted on different wheels. There's zero scientific validity to that test, it produced absolutely no useful information at all.

It's great that you had good luck and all, don't get me wrong, but that's hardly a valid test.

ZV

yeah, just that single valve difference negates your observations. And how often is 3x as often? I check my mom's tires every month, MAYBE on the 3rd month I add a pound or two.

My own doesn't see a change whatsoever really in a month, but that's useless since I adjust it for autocross.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: Bartman39
James... If they dont charge then thats pretty cool... :thumbsup:

Sad though most do charge extra... :thumbsdown:


Might help that sharp-azz Camero of yours though

Some of them will refill your tires with it at no charge. It's part of their "check-up" when you take your car in.

CAMARO! Besides, mine isn't on blocks.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Put it like this: The Goodyear "tire busters" at Nascar tracks (and anywhere else) that mount tires for the race teams use AIR. Goodyear's own take on this is "some teams FEEL they get more consistency with nitrogen", but we use compressed air.

I seriously doubt there's been any scientific study, even with race teams, that prove the nitrogen does or doesn't hold the air pressure more consistent, but I'm betting that Goodyear probably has done it if anyone has....especially considering the work they put into racing.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Apex
Who is the sillier person? The person who gets their Nitrogen for free or near free at many local shops, or the person who shreds $1700 worth of tires in a single track day to save the few bucks?

Agreed, the discussion assumes street use.

ZV

 

[Gillbot]

I run air in mine personally. They don't lose enough pressure (or any of the other over zealous claims) over the span of their life for me to worry about.

My beater grts it's tires checked and topped with air every oil change @ 5k, my camaro gets it topped off with air when I get it out for the summer.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Apex
Who is the sillier person? The person who gets their Nitrogen for free or near free at many local shops, or the person who shreds $1700 worth of tires in a single track day to save the few bucks?

Agreed, the discussion assumes street use.

ZV

Street use, I'd definitely agree. The difference in migration (which affects refill frequency) tends to be small enough to be practically worthless. The only real difference is the ability to hold constant pressure when compared to the air you typically find at most dispensers. If you have a good shop with a high end compressor and they are diligent at taking care of the condensation, there really should be no difference at all.

 

[SilthDraeth]

The only true benefit of nitrogen, is less moisture content, and it doesn't expand and compact as much as air. So if you live in a place with HUGE fluctuations in temperature, your tires will remain at a more constant PSI than if you used standard air. IF you can get it for free, I see no reason not to. But for $50 dollars, it isn't worth it.

 

[Toastedlightly]

I think we should use noble gasses in tires!

 

[piasabird]

So do you fill up the tires in a vacum? How do you keep the normal air out?

Isnt Nitrogen what they treat the Lettuce with when they bag it?

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: piasabird
So do you fill up the tires in a vacum? How do you keep the normal air out?

It was explained a few posts up. You either do a few fill/purge cycles, or you use a wheel that has two stems.