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FFRF: Creationists Bolstered by Bush "Intelligent Design" Nod

MicroChrome

Senior member
Creationist Wolf in Cheap Clothing

FFRF via BBSNews - 2005-08-05 -- Are we surprised when a president known more for his faith than his intellect advises us that creationism should be taught in public schools? George W. Bush, responding this week to a question about evolution and "intelligent design," gave us his learned scientific opinion: "Both sides ought to be properly taught . . . so people can understand what the debate is about. . . . Part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought."


Charles Robert Darwin (1809-1882)
Widely considered the father of evolution, Charles Darwin is often times a revered figure in scientific circles, and a reviled figure in some religious circles. Particularly Christians who believe in the theory of Creationism, where the universe was for them created in six days by a Christian God.

Darwin for a time struggled between the notion of being a country doctor or a clergyman, but an opportunity arose to make a five year long scientific quest around the world on the H.M.S. Beagle. During this long voyage he collected specimens and observed life forms at Pacific coral islands, the Galapagos islands and South America.

In On the Origin of Species, one of the most famous scientific texts ever written, Darwin spelled out his notoriously brilliant idea of natural selection, he wrote in 1859:

"As many more individuals of each species are born than can possibly survive; and as, consequently, there is a frequently recurring struggle for existence, it follows that any being, if it vary however slightly in any manner profitable to itself, under the complex and sometimes varying conditions of life, will have a better chance of surviving, and thus be naturally selected. From the strong principle of inheritance, any selected variety will tend to propagate its new and modified form."

A myth that still struggles for survival today is that Charles Darwin "repented" from Evolution or even converted to Christianity on his deathbed is just that, a myth. Darwin was not an atheist. He was a deist, in other words and quite ironically, a believer in an intelligent designer.

Does anyone think Bush really cares about an objective academic debate? Our president, the darling of the Christian right, is simply using his office to legitimize his theistic views, which happen to be the origin myth of the believing bloc that voted him into office.

As Christian conservative Gary Bauer pointed out: "With the president endorsing it, at the very least it makes Americans who have that position more respectable."

But there are more than two origin explanations. Does Bush advise "properly" teaching the various Native American creation myths, such as the earth forming on the back of a turtle rising from the waters? Does he insist that the "school of thought" of the Raelians (that humans are cloned extraterrestials) or the Babylonian Enuma Elish (that we sprang from the blood drops of the goddess Tiamat) also be "properly" taught in public science classrooms? Exactly how do you "properly teach" myth and magic in the science class?

The proponents of "intelligent design"--which is just the old creationist wolf in cheap clothing--want us to think that because there seem (to them) to be examples of "irreducible complexity" in living cells, or in other features of the universe, we must conclude that it was designed by an intelligence outside of nature. Since creationists have repeatedly been told by the courts that they can no longer outlaw evolution or teach Genesis in public schools, they are careful not to specify exactly who this designer is, pretending that their hypothesis is merely objective, disinterested science.

Really. Golly, George, who do you think the mysterious Designer is?

Bush and the ID people are fooling no one. Look who cheers when the president makes such remarks: not scientists--who overwhelmingly reject "intelligent design"--but bible toters, theocrats and preachers. Theologian Cardinal Schonborn of Vienna claims that evolution as an "unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection" is untrue. This is not science vs. science. This is poorly disguised religious dogma vs. the fact of evolution.

"Creationism science" is three things:

1) An attack on evolution, offering no evidence for their hypothesis of a designer ("Natural selection is wrong, so we win by default");

2) The old "god of the gaps" strategy of seeking supposedly unanswerable questions, and plugging the gap with a deity ("Gosh, we can't explain this, so there must be a god");

3) A story, such as the creation myth in the book of Genesis ("God said it, I believe it").

"Intelligent design" is not science. Its proponents have never had an article published on the topic in any peer-reviewed scientific journal. They conduct no experiments that would prove or falsify their hypothesis. Their conjecture makes no useful predictions, nor can it be mathematically modeled. There are no research labs doing ID science.

And who are they to proclaim that we have reached the end of scientific progress? It is the gaps that drive science forward, not grind it to a halt.

The ancients thought thunder and soil fertility were evidence of deities, but now we know something about electricity, weather, and agriculture. Those gaps have closed, and those gods have died. Isaac Newton, a fervent Christian, played the same game. After brilliantly discovering the laws of gravity that hold the planets in orbit, he failed to come up with an explanation for why the planets move in the same plane and same direction. He impatiently declared that these unsolvable mysteries were evidence for an intelligent designer. But now we know something about the formation of solar systems, and that gap has closed.

Just because today's scientists can't fully answer a particular question, can creationists mandate that no further inquiry is allowed? (Many of their supposed examples of "irreducible complexity," by the way, have already been explained, but this does not seem to discourage them.)

Let's ask creationists: Someday, when these gaps have closed and all your purported examples of "irreducible complexity" have been satisfactorily explained by science, will you abandon your belief in a god?

"Intelligent design" a not true science, vulnerable to disconfirmation. It is merely a prop to legitimize prior beliefs.

Scientists, by the way, do acknowledge design in the universe: design by natural selection, and by the limited number of ways atoms and molecules can combine mathematically and geometrically, or by emergent properties arising from "chaos," and so on. But "intelligent" design is an unsatisfactory hypothesis because it simply answers one mystery with another mystery. The mind of an intelligent designer would itself show signs of functional complexity, raising the question: who designed the designer?

If George Bush really wants to "expose people to different schools of thought," will he advocate teaching Darwinism in Sunday School? Shall we insert a chapter from Origin of the Species between Genesis 1 and 2?

The debate between the supernatural and natural world views ought to be discussed, but not in science class. It's not as though today's schoolchildren have been deprived of hearing about an "intelligent designer." There are churches on every other corner and religious broadcasts across the radio and TV spectra. Let's talk about religion--the good and the bad of it--in a class on philosophy or current topics.

But not in science class. Science teachers should teach science. Those who pretend "intelligent design" is science are missionaries, not teachers.
 
A myth that still struggles for survival today is that Charles Darwin "repented" from Evolution or even converted to Christianity on his deathbed is just that, a myth. Darwin was not an atheist. He was a deist, in other words and quite ironically, a believer in an intelligent designer.

HA! Isn't intresting how all of the words truely great minds end up at diests? 😀
 
Intelligent design is a belief. It is not provable or disprovable (absolutely essential in science). It's basically evolution + God.
 
Fine, teach 'intelligent design' in public schools, just as long as they teach evolution in federally funded churches.

btw, 'intelligent design' has to be one of the best oxymorons I have heard.
 
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: M00T
Relgion is useless in today's world.

There are some places like africa and ME where i still see need for it.

no kiddin' - a lot of people in this world need religion b/c they have nothing else. everyone needs some hope.
 
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: M00T
Relgion is useless in today's world.

There are some places like africa and ME where i still see need for it.

Wouldn't you think the Middle East could use less?

if everyone in the whole world was x-tian the world would be fine. (I can't believe I could type that without vomiting all over my keyboard)
 
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: M00T
Relgion is useless in today's world.

There are some places like africa and ME where i still see need for it.

Wouldn't you think the Middle East could use less?

if everyone in the whole world was x-tian the world would be fine. (I can't believe I could type that without vomiting all over my keyboard)

No it wouldn't it'd be bloody marry all over again, it'd just be Gory George Bush instead.

 
Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
btw, 'intelligent design' has to be one of the best oxymorons I have heard.

Are you sure that oxymoron means what you think it does ?

'Intelligent design' is actually a tautology, in that design by itself implies intelligence, and the intelligent part is unnecessary. A tautology is actually pretty much the opposite of an oxymoron.


 
Creationism and Evolution are opposed.
Intelligent Design has nothing to do with Creationism, Evolution, or Abiogenesis(sp).

Now, how do you get people to realize this?
 
Originally posted by: Cerb
Creationism and Evolution are opposed.
Intelligent Design has nothing to do with Creationism, Evolution, or Abiogenesis(sp).

Now, how do you get people to realize this?

Please... intelligent design is an attempt to put a secular face on creationism. Too bad it's still not science.
 
Originally posted by: BDawg
Originally posted by: Cerb
Creationism and Evolution are opposed.
Intelligent Design has nothing to do with Creationism, Evolution, or Abiogenesis(sp).

Now, how do you get people to realize this?
Please... intelligent design is an attempt to put a secular face on creationism. Too bad it's still not science.
Too bad it isn't? Why should it be pursued as science? Science should offer us ways of solving problems, even problems we weren't sure existed at the time. Proving ID true or false would not aid in this, unless it could be proven true, the creator's identity proven, and a direct way to communicate with that creator were found.

Proving that some other thing out there made us or guided our existence will not change a single meaningful thing about our existence. It won't get your food on the table, it won't take out your trash, and it won't prove or disprove any known theories of origins. As such, it has no place in any kind of hard science. ID, by its nature, is extra-terrestrial, extra-dimensional, or both.

In addition, it creates a kind of paradox (depending on how specific you get, many paradoxes), as you are attempting to prove, by way of patterns that you create, that those patterns prove that some other intelligent thing created them. Then, if that thing is still active, do you have freedom? Is your own ability to choose really freedom if there is an entity actively affecting the circumstances of your choices? Also, with that, are your bad choices truly your responsibility, if something else directly aided your making those choices? There are even more, if you get more specific about what the designer(s) might be.

ID as a face for Creationism is only is this specific type of case, in which it used as that. The deisgner being the Christian God does not encompass all who feel ID is correct--just the few who want to claim that it can sit alongside actual science.

ID is a perfect thing for a gifted/AP debate or philosophy class. Beyond that, it has no real place in a schools, especially not science classes.
 
Fine, teach 'intelligent design' in public schools, just as long as they teach evolution in federally funded churches.

--uh, can you think of any federally funded churches? the government doesn't fund my church...

Also, for those of you living in the South East Area, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary will be holding a Greer/Heard Point Counterpoint Debate on the Subject of Intelligent Deisgn vs. Evolution early next year. The guest speaker on behalf of ID will be Dr. William Dempsky, a chief proponent of ID from the Discovery Instititute in Seattle. This has been a great debate series. The evolution position has not yet been assigned, but rest assured, it will be someone who espouses evolitionary theory and hold a plethora of credentials.

BTW, Last year the focus of the Debate was the Historical Reliablility of the Resurrection: Was it a real Physical Event or a Spiritual metaphor. the debators last year were from the Jesus seminar, N.T. Wright, the Archbishop of Durham, and Dr. John Dominic Crossen. For those of you who are truly interested in a civil debate, rather than saber-rattling and name-calling, you may want to call and get tickets for the debate. Go to www.nobts.edu.

 
ID = Creationism, it the same think tanks, same activists, same money. They just try to dress it up and peddle it onto idiots.
 
"Part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought."

Like Ptolemy' spheres and epicycles, phlogiston, Eldorado, UFOs and perpetual motion.
And alchemy.


Find more fun stuff at Wikipedia
 
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: BDawg
Originally posted by: Cerb
Creationism and Evolution are opposed.
Intelligent Design has nothing to do with Creationism, Evolution, or Abiogenesis(sp).

Now, how do you get people to realize this?
Please... intelligent design is an attempt to put a secular face on creationism. Too bad it's still not science.
Too bad it isn't?

It is. Read the Wedge document, where the founders of ID creationism state their goals.

Why should it be pursued as science?

It shouldn't, but the founders of ID creationism and writers and speakers about ID claim that it should be.

 
Originally posted by: Cerb
Creationism and Evolution are opposed.
Intelligent Design has nothing to do with Creationism, Evolution, or Abiogenesis(sp).

Now, how do you get people to realize this?

Well, the Discovery Institute believes that their multimillion dollar PR campaign will deceive people into thinking that ID isn't creationism, and they seem to be doing a good job on selling it to the mainstream media.
 
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